Hi I just found some information that some people may be intereasted in. This link is to an article on about.com. If you decide to release your own album this should be of help to you. It is called
Do I Need A Record Deal?
Almost 2 years ago one of our members gave me the below link.
Apparently 20+ folks he knew had used it and were very happy.
I have used them. Am very happy with their quality and also turn
around time. Of course they are little over 120 miles from me.
It is a "Robot" company, almost everything is automated.
One requirement is hi-speed connection.
http://kunaki.com/home.aspGoogle them, and their techniques.
They are ONLY a production company, not a Label company.
I have no connection with them other than purchasing 65 CD's
with them.
Pretty much, if you do it yourself your sales will approach, but not exceed, the number of friends you have. No matter how good it is, without a PR machine nobody outside your little burgh, wherever that burgh is, will ever even know you are alive.
We sold them at every show we did.
Sold way more CD's than I have friends..
IMHO, unless you have a distribution system that can move many hundred thousand CD's you are spitting into a very strong wind.
Later,
Bob (the OP), the article tells you the same thing we shared with you back 9 months to a year ago when you first started posting here, as it pertains to DIY approach or getting a record deal. Getting a record deal is nearly impossible. DIY is the way to go to make a little bit of money, follow rharv's example. Money is made these days at shows, with merchandise sales. That's almost all that there is. Get a great local following going - your 1000 true fans (read this website without any rose-colored lenses on
http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php ) and see if you think you can generate that kind of following. Try it. See if you can build it up to that point. If not, don't bother attempting a 'record deal'. No record company in their right mind will give you a deal if you can't show that you already have a fan base. Plain and simple. To think that a record company will sign you before showing this rather small-scale amount of fan support is delusional at best. The article takes some time to read and digest. You should read it before you approach any label or decide to create your own label.
Prove that you have generated fans on your own, then go after a deal. This will be hard work. It may involve profound disappointment. It may involve a serious shift in perspective and priorities as to why you record and create music.
The good news is that you can use what talent you might have and social media to help you get started. These are the lamp-post flyers of today.
-Scott
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We sold them at every show we did.
Sold way more CD's than I gave friends..
I bought the CD of the band I PLAY IN!!!! CDs are for sale, not gifts.
But realistically, if you move 25 per show, how long will that take you to hit 1,000,000 units with no airplay, publicity?
I know 1,000,000 sounds ambitious but geeze, why do we make CDs? Just because we can? This is the music BUSINESS. You need to move units, get mechanicals from radio stations playing your songs, tour, sell your band t-shirts....
Edit to add: I have never done this. My stuff is not of the quality that gets me on tour, on the radio, on New Year's Rockin' Eve.... I even had to pay to go to Di'neyland!
Point is, if you have the talent to go along with the dream, you ain't gonna be the next big thang without the machine behind you.
Eddie,
I sold on Ebay..... this is my business model..
Cost me bout $1.50 to sell/ship it, not including the CD cost....
So glad, have fixed income..... to feed us, and buy few extras, like BIAB.
But always loved projects. Putting together the music, the artwork,
the mixing and beginners "grasshopper mastering", then purchasing, the
production etc. was a great joy for me.
And a lot of it was due to you folks, your postings, specific guidance for me,
listening to your music.
And of course all of the PG Music folks.
Over the years I have sold a LOT of CDs at the venues where the various acts I've been involved play.
The venue is where the people will buy your CD.
It may not be a million sales, but it darn sure helps pay the bills.
And lots of folks really do appreciate them.
Typically we sell 'em for 10 dollars ea at a table somewhere. The wives and girlfriends can be tapped to run the tables and are appreciative as we share the take.
One band, we ended up having six separate "releases" on sale at the same time.
There were folks who bought all six at one pop after listening, dancing and, of course, perhaps a bit of imbibing of adult beverages.
I don't understand taking the tack of, "If I can't sell a million then I won't try to sell any at all."
--Mac
@Bob (the OP of this thread)
Do you see a common thread here? There is a huge difference between getting a record deal and releasing a CD. 20 years ago, that was not the case - the second required the first.
These days, it's rather simple to release your own CD through CDBaby and other sites. (though CD Baby has the system down to a science). No record deal involved.
But the place you will move the most CDs, is at your own shows, as rharv and Mac have pointed out and the 1000 true fans article points out in many more words.
At CD Baby, you can even 'release' CDs with minimum quantity of 5. Yes, you read that right, 5 CDs is all you need to supply them to get onto their distribution. They can even be CDs that you burn at home on your computer. Your 'fans' might not like to receive it that way, but there's really not a whole lot to it. Read here:
http://members.cdbaby.com/cd-distribution.aspxGetting a record deal is a whole different ballgame. I suggest using sales on CD Baby to see if you can build up a fan base (though performance or viral videos on YouTube are the way to build up fans so it seems) and then approach record companies. However, they are trolling YouTube as you read this for the latest unsigned musical acts that are skyrocketing. It's almost better to go niche style-wise, and approach small labels that cater to a very specific narrow slice of the musical scene.
Want to see what your competition is clawing for Record Deal attention? Go to Noisetrade.com and you will see at least 20-50 new CD projects from 'Contemporary Christian' artists released FOR FREE, every single day. Some are samplers, but a whole bunch of them are even quite famous people trying to reinvigorate their existing or develop a new fan base. I just got a Charlie Peacock album for free on there. In the 1980s and 1990s, Charlie was one of the top CCM artists and producers. He either intentionally, or by proxy dropped out of the scene. Now he's back - giving his stuff away for free, to gain a new fan base. That album is still free there by the way.
Or check out the 'spiritual' section of CDBaby:
http://www.cdbaby.com/style/gospel Take a look at all of the unknown and known artists there. Boatloads. Most of them don't have a current 'record deal'. Most of them can't get the deal. Some of them choose to avoid it. But if they sell a CD on CDbaby, they get the selling price minus 4$ - the portion that CDBaby keeps.
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We sold them at every show we did.
Sold way more CD's than I gave friends..
I bought the CD of the band I PLAY IN!!!! CDs are for sale, not gifts.
But realistically, if you move 25 per show, how long will that take you to hit 1,000,000 units with no airplay, publicity?
I know 1,000,000 sounds ambitious but geeze, why do we make CDs? Just because we can? This is the music BUSINESS. You need to move units, get mechanicals from radio stations playing your songs, tour, sell your band t-shirts....
Edit to add: I have never done this. My stuff is not of the quality that gets me on tour, on the radio, on New Year's Rockin' Eve.... I even had to pay to go to Di'neyland!
Point is, if you have the talent to go along with the dream, you ain't gonna be the next big thang without the machine behind you.
See my edit to my post above.
I meant to say 'sold more CD's than I have friends' (not 'gave friends'; missed it by one key)
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I meant to say 'sold more CD's than I have friends' (not 'gave friends'; missed it by one key)
I would hit that threshold at about the 4th CD sale....
Seeker, that might have been me. I mention
Kunaki whenever the opportunity comes up. Why? Because it is a low cost way to get a better looking product than you can make at home, with shrink wrap AND a bar code.
You can try them out by grabbing 5 CD's OR DVD's for $1 a piece, plus S&H....how can ya lose?
Plus they will drop ship pieces to CD Baby, or most anywhere else for you, another nice perk for a great price!
The biggest change since they moved is now the cost is directly related to the demand. It could be as low as .75 cents up to a max of $1.75 per piece, CD or DVD, depending on when you order it.
25 bands - folks I have worked with in my studio has ordered from them, and all have been repeat offenders. All have sold a few 100 CD's at $10 - $15 a pop...they are out there doing it, not siting at home boo-hooing about how hard it is, and they make enough to kept them going.
"I don't understand taking the tack of, "If I can't sell a million then I won't try to sell any at all."
I fully agree. Even tho it has taken 10 years to sell a little over 500 copies of my original music thru Soundclick, MP3.com, CD Baby, etc it is out there in the hands of people that find it worth paying for.
Rich & Famous?
Yes....yes I am....
Kunaki bookmarked here - thanks.
Making your own CDs certainly doesn't mean that you can't get a record deal in the future and in any case it is a way to promote yourself. You won't sell millions - but these days even the biggest acts rarely sell millions (or even one million).
Having a physical release does help somewhat in promotional terms - I have had radio airplay because I have an actual CD - I also have placed my CD into a few shops (and they play it from time to time). You never know who might buy that CD - sell (or give) your CD to the right person and it might lead to bigger things.
Without a CD I wouldn't have any of that...
It's not an either/or thing. Putting out your own CDs won't stop you signing a record contract in the future.
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Getting a record deal is nearly impossible.
Scott is absolutely right. The only sort of record deal worth signing is one where the record company is offering you a non-returnable advance against royalties. Because the record companies don't like losing money, they only offer these contracts to people who they know are certain to be a big success.
Statistically, you're more likely to get struck by lightning than to get one of these deals. (A surprisingly large number of golfers get struck by lightning every year.)
ROG.
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I meant to say 'sold more CD's than I have friends' (not 'gave friends'; missed it by one key)
I would hit that threshold at about the 4th CD sale....
Me too .. if you count the band emmbers as friends.
My response was to your post earlier - "Pretty much, if you do it yourself your sales will approach, but not exceed, the number of friends you have".
This was very untrue, and it would discourage others from trying.
You also don't have to have a record deal to get your name and CD to some popular places, it just takes effort. I'm sometimes surprised to see our CDs in some of the places they are.
Roger,
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Statistically, you're more likely to get struck by lightning than to get one of these deals. (A surprisingly large number of golfers get struck by lightning every year.)
Funny how holding a 4ft metal shaft with a large metal face above your head in an open area during a thunderstorm makes that happen! 
Bob, (OP),
I think you're getting fixated on the "record deal" aspect. Just put your music out there, offer it for sale where you're performing and see if you have any takers.
If you don't, then play your music just for your own enjoyment, and if anyone else wants to listen, ... let them.
You need to promote an original CD like you would any product.
Most times in my case it's more a souvenir of the show.
Most people are pleasantly surprised that my CDs are NOT like the live show.
But I always made some profit.
Then again I play out for early often and especially in the islands tourists like to buy things.
As far as this website for manufactured CDs assume those are CDRs right?
That's a good price for 100 but not a very good price for 1000 sense the real places will manufacture 1000 for you at a lower price.
Amazon won't sell those hard copies, you know.
But you can get it every digital download site.
I've seen some artists at festivals who burn CDs at home and print inserts and paper labels.
Probably have 5 bucks in it and sell them for 15.
And honestly these days who cares? The music goes on the iPod and the disk goes in storage.
Also, Eddie, you must have bought from the band site.
WSS
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Amazon won't sell those hard copies, you know.
I beg to differ. I see one of our CDs for sale there and I have no idea who it is that has it listed. Dunno if it sold if we'd even know or get anything from it.
Sold many (hundreds) more at shows than online.
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Getting a record deal is nearly impossible.
Scott is absolutely right. The only sort of record deal worth signing is one where the record company is offering you a non-returnable advance against royalties. Because the record companies don't like losing money, they only offer these contracts to people who they know are certain to be a big success.
Statistically, you're more likely to get struck by lightning than to get one of these deals. (A surprisingly large number of golfers get struck by lightning every year.)
ROG.
In my line of work, I get exposed to a wide spectrum of people that are all up and down the 'making it' in the music business that use our products. Some are no-names, some are at the absolute top of the charts in their genres. I can tell you that happiness as well as abject sadness exists at all points in the spectrum.
jcspro40,
I do/did appreciate your recommendation, very happy with them.
Thanx
WSS mentioned festivals and that reminded me of another story. There are several big festivals around here every year, the Hermosa Arts one, the Manhattan Beach one, the really big one out in Pomona and others. We were down at the beach to the Hermosa one and there were two booths set up at opposite ends selling nothing but CD's. They had nice sound systems playing the music they were selling. One was pretty good contemporary jazz and the other was soothing aroma therapy background type stuff. I talked to the guy running the jazz booth and he wasn't the musician, that guy lives in San Francisco. He hires people to run these booths so he must be selling enough to be worth that I would assume although he could be losing his butt too. I don't know any details but you have to pay for those spaces plus the cost of the booth itself, traveling expenses, etc.
This is a business with all the risks and costs of any other business. I have a full time job, no way do I have the time to do that but still I'm drawn to it like lemmings to the sea because music has always been my first love. I keep going to these different places and keep gravitating to musicians trying to make it and talking to them. I suspect that playing down at the Santa Monica 3rd Street Promenade can work for some people too. Some of them are very good and I can see them selling CD's down there because I've bought a few, plus tips plus the exposure to get gigs from people just walking around. That is a very expensive area to live, house party gigs usually pay decently. I researched playing at the Promenade a bit too, you have to get a license from the city to do that and they will assign you an area to play and your time slot. It's up to you to find parking and schlep your equipment and that's not easy either. Naturally the best areas and time slots are difficult to get and I think it's first come first served so people are waiting in line for that. Again this is a business and it takes some investment and work. Lots of work.
Bob
I'll take a look at Kunaki, but I've been selling pretty well over the past several years between my own site, Bandcamp, CD Baby, and at gigs. They each have their own advantages: My own site, I get the largest share of money; Bandcamp, I can earn free download codes (which can be either promotional or turned into download cards -- instant merch!); CD Baby distributes to iTunes so I don't have to; and gigs get me strike-while-the-iron-is-hot sales that can't be beat.
I should get more of my stuff onto YouTube -- not to sell it, but to make it known. Which, with links in the description, will sell it.
Maybe I need to state my definition of "released". When I see that word I think of "not on a label that nobody has ever heard of, like 'Mustard Yellow Records', in the hands of every radio station on the planet so they have the opportunity to play it, and available in Walmart, K-Mart, Sears, Best Buy......" . Making CDs in the home studio to sell at gigs or on CD Baby is not what I am talking about, given my definition of "released". That was the original question, if you should release a CD yourself. If you are connected enough in the 6 Degrees of Separation game where you can do that, great. Most people can't do it without the machine behind them.
@ Eddie, sorry mate but you are living in the distant past! I'm a gigging musician (its my job)& the main way of earning a living nowadays is by gigging & (more importantly) selling CD's at the venue, THAT is where the money is, big record lables are no longer BIG record lables in the sense of yesterday. They no longer are in a position to rip off the public as before & don't have the margins they once have so are no longer in a porition to trade as they once did. The power has been given back to the musician if, & only if, they want to take the bull by the horns. The example earlier was selling 25 cd's at a gig, now a cd can be produced for around $2 & sold for $15! imagine $13 dollars profit x 25 = $325 for 1 concert on top of the gig fee. Now if for a gigging musician you play just twice a week, thats 104 gigs a year (say 100 to round things out) that is $32,500 a year just by selling cd's. Not bad by any standards & that is without talking about online distribution.......... Think about it, gigs are where the money is nowadays!
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As far as this website for manufactured CDs assume those are CDRs right?
That's a good price for 100 but not a very good price for 1000 sense the real places will manufacture 1000 for you at a lower price.
The real places?
Yes, they are CDR's, but so are Disc Makers & Oasis short runs.....
And Kunaki are GREAT for short, quick runs, not 1000's. For a band that only needs 40 to get them thru you can not beat Kunaki prices or service. Even after S&H you could not create the product at home for the same price, at least not at today's supplies cost...
And as a side note, all printing is done direct to disk, no labels on the CD-DVD's...
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Think about it, gigs are where the money is nowadays!
I will give you that, but I offer this.
Your formula looks nice if you have gigs in 104 different places over that year and you dazzle 25 people at each of those gigs and they buy a CD. Where I live is a circuit of about a dozen rooms. Of those dozen rooms, you are at least "strongly discouraged", if not flat out forbidden, to play original music. The places where original acts are welcomed don't typically seat a lot of people, and those artists typically play to the same 30 faces every gig. Who will buy those 25 CDs? How many copies of that same CD do you think that group of 30 followers are going to buy? Unless you are going to waste weeks making a CD of other people's music and paying THEM royalties for your time.....
I don't know where you are, but "mate" makes me think Australia or England. The scene may be different there. Where I live, most of the bands who work a lot are players who play in 3-4 bands at a time, playing 100% cover, never with the same people twice in a row, and never really in a "band" in the definition of "players who work together toward a common goal". The handful of people who play original music are mostly solo artists, and again, they develop a following and see the same faces every gig, and once you have "the CD".... again, how many copies are they going to buy of the same CD? Unless you have a new CD ready every gig.....
The numbers are fine in theory, but unless you have product available for sale to the masses, that theory is theory only. "Bob" in Milwaukee or Detroit or Cleveland or Pittsburgh may sell a handful of CDs at his gigs, but nobody in Oregon or New Mexico knows who "Bob" is, and until he starts selling in Oregon and New Mexico.... you get what I am saying? Unless your CD is "released" (there is that semantics thing coming into play again - how do you define "released?") 50 states minus your home area don't know who you are.
Keep in mind also that "happening" varies from town to town. The northeast Ohio area used to be AWESOME. It is 20% of what it used to be. People don't have money to go out. I have a large number of friends who still play from back in the years that I did. I rarely go see them. Why? They are playing the same music they played then. I am not about to pay $5 at the door to visit with someone who I bowled with or played golf with for years. I'd rather visit them at home for free and there is no "gotta get back on stage" involved. I won't pay a cover charge to see ANY copy band.
But on topic, if you really don't have the avenues to be national (or even international) by all means sell your CDs and get paid for your hard work writing and recording. My only point is that selling CDs you made yourself in your basement is not, in my personal definition, my opinion, "releasing" anything.
I'm an irishman living in France Eddie. I have a few differnt strings to my bow & I do solo gigs, in duo, trio & group. Also doing trad irish but also my own stuff & the selling of cd's, although only supplementary income, (I earn my living from being paid to do the gigs) adds up to a substantial addition to my earnings.
"Barking Pumpkin Records"
Frank Zappa did it.
You can, too.
IF your product is worthy.
--Mac
For making physical media, I have been very happy with Kunaki. Good prices and I don't have to waste time doing the work, other making the master and creating the artwork. You get shrink-wrapped CDs, with UPC (or not) and they have arrangements with Amazon and CDBaby to be the source. Six or less costs like $1 each plus shipping; otherwise, it's $1.75 per CD. You'll wasted that in color ink in no time, and their labels look fantastic.
With the music world being 180% different than the music world I made my living in, I don't think anyone nowadays ties "Release" with "Record Company", at least from what I have seen with the 1000's of band's trying to get my money for a CD or download.
Today it is Facebook-Bandcamp-yada-yada-yada markiting & digital downloads most of the time, but a CD is still the calling card of choice for a lot of people, clubs, & radio.
And being old fashion, I say that a CD release is a must, because I KNOW that I am NOT the only one that feels paying $15 for a 10 song MP3 download & artwork that I have to print out to be a rip off! Just like manuals in PDF & ePub books, I feel cheated unless I have a physical item I can hold in my hand for the $$ I pay....if I don't (like a lot of software I buy) I feel like I have not got my moneys worth.
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With the music world being 180% different than the music world I made my living in, I don't think anyone nowadays ties "Release" with "Record Company", at least from what I have seen with the 1000's of band's trying to get my money for a CD or download.
I've gotta give a great big +1 on that one. If you've made CD's of your own music and you're offering them for sale to the public, you've "released" a CD. There doesn't need to be a record company or publishing company involved to make it a "release".
Explain Kunaki's model a little bit if you would - those that use it.
Cost to manufacture look like $1, but shipping is $4.20, correct? Do they keep your CD on file for future orders? That is, let's say I sell 1 CD per week from my website, do you simply order another qty of 1 per week, and provide the ship to address?
I'm a little confused as to how their system works.
Email me and I will send you some detaily goodies.
Think it would violate rules on this forum.
fb.seeker@gmail.comShort version:
play will pricing page.
Also thoroughly study the FAQ page.
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"Barking Pumpkin Records"
Frank Zappa did it.
So did Sting. And Todd Rundgren. And Janis Ian. And many others who got tired of record company red tape.
However, does my name fit into that sentence anywhere?
This is the same concept as all the Little Mary Sunshine people who delight in telling me "Oh, you're not too old to play. Look at the Rolling Stones."
My reply? "Yes look at them. They have been a major 'somebody' for 50 years. Veteran acts hanging in is a little different than starting over again at 61."
You guys are taking my comments all wrong. Make your CDs. Sell them to everybody at every Joe's Bar gig you play. Let me know the first time you sell a substantial amount to anybody 2000 miles away from where you live.
This discussion isn't even about making your music. It's about marketing your music.
There is a guy who was the local hero here in Cleveland. I won't mention his name because we hate each other and he would sue me. Leave it to say that everybody loves him in that blind following way where he sells out shows even though he is WAY past his prime and now just writes to write. He was huge here in the 70s and early 80s though.
I was in Dallas Texas for a month in the early 90s. With weekends off and a rental car, I hit a bunch of record stores. I found one of his albums (this was when there was more vinyl than CD) and took it to the front and asked the clerk if they have ever sold one. She looked it up. They had never sold one of this guy's albums. None of them. They were VERY good albums, full of very good songs. But nobody in Texas had ever heard of the guy and who is going to buy an album by a guy you never heard of?
Here was a guy who DID have the machine behind him. He was on a fairly major label, and he DID play Dallas. Yet he had never sold an album in Dallas.
I am not saying don't sell your CDs. The topic of the thread was "To release a CD yourself or not". If you CAN get "the machine" behind you and make you available in 50 United States and 10 provinces in Canada, as well as the rest of the world, chances are you may sell more units. Maybe even get some radio play and pick up some mechanicals. A former bandmate has a song that somehow got some play in Australia. Every now and then he gets a royalty check for a few bucks. He still doesn't know how it got on the air, but BMI is BMI and he got his mechanical royalties.
So make your own copies, come up with a cute name for your "label", put funny artwork on the labels you make on your printer to stick on them, crank them out with a bulk duplication device, whatever. IF... I had the talent, the quality product, the funds to lawyer up to protect myself, I would be trying to go the label route. It's all a moot point because I don't have any of the above, but to answer the original topic, I would take the traditional route of trying to get on a major label and have their power available to me to move units.
Eddie,
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It's all a moot point because I don't have any of the above, but to answer the original topic, I would take the traditional route of trying to get on a major label and have their power available to me to move units.
I think you're missing the point here. You're not gonna get on a major label. I'm not gonna get on a major label. Neither is anyone else on the forum. None of us are gonna be famous!
You talk about selling 1 million CD's, whenever most folks here would be happy to sell 100 CD's. You make it sound like someone's a failure if they can't reach that 1 million mark.
I've always been under the impression that most folks on the forum play music because they love it. Not because they had delusions of grandeur.
Take a reality check and realize that some people just want to share their music, even if it's only with a few people. Very few are looking to get their CD's into WalMart.
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To release a CD yourself or not.
I think it all depends on your expectations. If you're hoping to sell a lot of product and by that I mean about 5000 units per week, you're going to need -
a} A good product, well recorded, produced and mastered.
b) A professional video, which can cost more than a small house.
c] Radio pluggers and social media manipulation.
d] An accountant, lawyer and an admin office.
For most people, this means a contract with a major player and I think this is what Eddie is saying, but as we've already established, for most people it's not an available option.
If, on the other hand, you're talking about a few CDs to sell at gigs, do-it-yourself is your only option. Just don't expect to become rich and famous.
ROG.
Everything about Band in a Box and Realband and Powertracks, plus all the other great softwares, hardwares and etc. that we discuss on this very forum is basically geared towards INDIE production.
And INDIE production has been and still is the "revolution" that hss changed the old "you must sign with a recording company" model.
It is not enough to simply ask for "change" -- when change does indeed come along, it is necessary to embrace same.
Improvise, Adapt and Overcome.
--Mac
I am planning on releasing a CD this year (actually I have dogged it for the last 9 months and it should be done and out by now!). I plan to go the Kunaki, Bandcamp and CD-Baby route (need to also look into that micro-payment setup with paypal).
Will I sell any CD's at all? Probably not (unless I buy one myself -- ha, ha), but I am going to do it anyway. As far as marketing, I will just list that I have done a CD on the 50/90, FAWM, RPM, and the songwriting sites I belong to. I don't see any use in trying to market anywhere else that I would have to pay for.
Edit: Oh yea, I will probably join BMI or ASCAP at that time and register with soundscan. Why not?
Yes, anyone can do it. It takes work though.
Once your CD is done, make a release plan. For one of our CDs we planned a release party. Paid for radio commercials to announce it, showed up at the station with donuts and coffee, schmoozed a little and got some airplay along with the commercials, talked to the owner of the hall about our plan and he bought in. We got door and CD/tshirt sales and he got the bar. He told us at our last break he wanted to do it again (good night for bar). They ended up opening both sides of the hall up that night and calling in extra help to open the other bar. Everyone had a good night including us. We advertised in Canada and had people come across for the party. Executing a plan for the CD takes effort and a little $$ investment, but can pay off.
If you are going to release it act like you are doing a release.
For online sales CDBaby can help a lot, but sign up and get a UPC code before printing any CDs. Then you can sell it anywhere. Get the local CD store to stock a few (he can scan with UPC and track your sales). We have a very few CDs left over from another CD we did in '07 but I see that CD for sale online still. Right now I can find it at places like Amazon, iTunes, mtv.com, artistsdirect, importcds, cduniverse, payplay.fm, music.yahoo, cdandlp.com, allmusic.com, musicstack, jpc.de, amazon uk, (theres even an entry on billboard.com but no info)
Is it 'released'?
Did you send any out to radio stations in other states?
Not just states, countries..
we designed a shipping package with marketing collateral inside and branded on the outside too.
If we thought of it, we did it.
It bugs me that I know people right now sitting on good product but won't invest in the promotion/marketing side to make things happen.
Instead they play the local spots, mixing in originals with covers, wondering when someone will find them.
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...Instead they play the local spots, mixing in originals with covers, wondering when someone will find them.
Far too many *think* this, think that is how the industry works, but it is a fallacy.
For every "discovery" act, there are literally hundreds more successful acts that got there by doing what it takes to promote, making that promotion a large part of their business plan.
If you take the interest in this thing and keep at it, there is a far better statistcal chance of success.
Me, I'm a sideman in the grand old tradition.
--Mac
rharv,
do u have a link to your release on Amazon? Do u make $$ from the sales there?
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Amazon won't sell those hard copies, you know.
I beg to differ. I see one of our CDs for sale there and I have no idea who it is that has it listed. Dunno if it sold if we'd even know or get anything from it.
Sold many (hundreds) more at shows than online.
My first solo release was a CDR.
Some what recently I was told Amazon stopped selling CDRs because of the inconsistencies they posed to older CD players.
No problems with the second which was manufactured with a glass master.
CDBaby sells CDRs and the digital download sites all sell the first 1, but Amazon won't sell the physical CDRs
WSS
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As far as this website for manufactured CDs assume those are CDRs right?
That's a good price for 100 but not a very good price for 1000 sense the real places will manufacture 1000 for you at a lower price.
The real places?
Yes, they are CDR's, but so are Disc Makers & Oasis short runs.....
And Kunaki are GREAT for short, quick runs, not 1000's. For a band that only needs 40 to get them thru you can not beat Kunaki prices or service. Even after S&H you could not create the product at home for the same price, at least not at today's supplies cost...
And as a side note, all printing is done direct to disk, no labels on the CD-DVD's...
No doubt that seems like a pretty good deal for less than 300 CDRs.
At 1000, of course, the " real guys" charge about 99 cents each.
But if these guys are quick and easy, great.
Just curious, how do they handle copyrighted material?
In other words if your band covers a particular song?
I limit my self to 1 per album and I pay Harry Fox.
WSS
No, I don't make money off Amazon. Not that I know of. I don't even know who is selling it there and if I would get any money. I've seen this CD on sale online for $40 .. by an individual I didn't know. Like anyone would give $40 for it ..
Don't buy it, PM me if interested, but listing is here -
http://www.amazon.com/Burn-Simpleton-Gur...=simpleton+guru My whole point is -
We sold way more CDs at shows than online or in a store.
We also promoted the whole thing heavily. You have to do the work if you are going to release it yourself, and even then we sold more at performances by far. Any online sales usually were triggered by a performance somewhere.
The reason we got any airplay was because we were promoting the show, the cd release, and bought commercial time to generate some interest. We also showed up at the studio and schmoozed. Then have a couple people call the studio showing interest in this new band, asking for details .. before you know it they think something is happening in the area and they got the inside scoop.
Don't forget to send a note later to tell them how successful it was and thanks.
Think of everything you can to generate interest and do it.
If you want a copy of CD PM me and I'll see how many are left. We stopped making more copies at least 5 years ago on this particular CD though. That's why I'm so surprised I can find it so many places! I haven't looked for it in years. Recorded about 6 years ago (2nd CD we did, and the first was better but with no promo effort I can't find that one anywhere online). Band stopped playing about 4 years ago. Website dead, all gone.
/searched band name at Amazon and see our first CD is listed but 'not available' .. dang I'm missing sales!
I'm on Amazon, but only because it is a requirement (or at least, it was) for having my music played on Pandora. With Amazon's annual fees, low artist cut, and the fact they won't stockpile inventory so you have to ship every single order, I rarely make anything from Amazon and I discourage people from buying my CD there.
CD Baby has been fabulous. Their accounting is excellent and they place my CD in the new places where artists are paid. There was a one-time setup fee, they do stockpile so I save on shipping, and the artist cut is fair.
You do have to register with BMI or ASCAP to get royalties from airplay, and with Sound Exchange to get royalties from Internet/Satellite TV play.
Regarding Rharv's comment about finding his CD in many places, I am always amazed where mine turns up. Some of the places are even legal. After playing Whack-a-Mole with the major copyright-violating download sites, I have it under control for the moment.
Yes, I mentioned CDBaby for a reason; I think they are on the up-and-up, and are worth the price of admission. One of the first steps in the chain.
Being up here north of Detroit, I am surprised at how much we accomplished with this project and I learned a lot.
That said, it was a LOT of effort and work. If I didn't enjoy doing it I'd feel differently about it, but the whole thing was fun.
I hope my point was understood; if you are going to do it, it will take a lot of work.
You'll have to be the one doing that work if you decide to do it yourself.
If you do it yourself it'll happen.
If you wait, it likely won't ever happen .. and trying it on your own gives you a much better chance if you ever do get checked out by a label. We had a mailing list (nice and long), an email list, references from shows mentioning attendance .. etc.
These things help. The label has something to work with.
It ain't for everyone, and your mileage will definately vary, but if you are going to do it, give it your best shot.
Harv, you are a solid 6 iron from being in Canada (eh?). I would guess you maybe had some work in the Sarnia area. (I LOVED playing there!) If that is true, was there anything unique or exotic about selling your wares in another country? You'd need a work visa to play the gig, and I wonder if there is any kind of bureaucratic crap that would have denied you from selling "American products" in Canada.
Lots of good practical advice on this thread. What I get is,
- You are NOT going to be discovered by chance some night while playing!
- And if you don't put in LOTS and LOTS of work, you're going to sell the kinda numbers Eddie mentioned (number of friends minus friends who don't like you enough to buy your CD).
About the only thing I'd respectfully disagree with is "If you do it yourself it'll happen." cause, even with lots of work, the odds are still against you selling anything significant enough over a long enough period of time to make it worth leaving your day job (unless you have a really crummy day job!)
And I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't try. By all means if it makes you happy go for it! Its just good to know the odds and go into this with your eyes wide open rather than dreaming of being discovered or creating a large enough fan base that you can maintain long enough to make any decent money from.
You can easily release your own cd. Most people I know who have recorded them simply do so to add to their gig fees. None I've spoken to expect fame or fortune just the odd bit of radio play. I you merely want to release on for selling at gigs, go for it. Have a friend sitting at a table beside you ( nice looking female if poss.
) that can take the cash and also to make sure they don't grow legs.
If you want to go for large sales, then it HAS to be done properly from recording to marketing by the pros.
Well said Furry. Don't NOT do it because you are waiting for that record deal. You can still make a product and profit. Every step along the way you will learn and be more prepared if that deal ever comes along by having done it. And do it up right if you want it to succeed! You can do a lot on your own with a little effort. It depends a lot on what your expectations are.
BTW
What killed our project was when four of the five (I was the odd one out) started using the name to play cover gigs. I had no interest in that. It ruined the branding we had done. Instead of being a new 'original' band it became a cover band that played some originals; the kiss of death around here. But they continued to sell CD's, even at cover gigs, which was a plus for me. Took about a year for the whole thing to fizzle out after that. They got burned out, had diluted the name, and wondered why interest had died off. Marketing lesson in there; at first they got some nice paying cover gigs because of the name and could show numbers from the shows we had done, but that faded as well as the name became devalued over time.
So depending on your expectations, give it all you got and have fun with it.