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We're planning on adding some additional forums to the list of PG Music forums, and wanted suggestions on what forums we could add.

Here are some ideas that I have, and please comment or change them.

1. "How Do I ...?"
This would be covering many topics on computer music topics. They don't have to be BB related
e.g. How Do I .... Record my Guitar into my DAW
How Do I .... Minimize buzz and computer sounds in my recordings.
how Do I ... Pitch correct my vocals live
Thanks to JoeV for the inspiration for this forum. He has posted several topics, and they have been of keen interest to many, with helpful replies from many forum members.

This would differ from the tips n tricks in that it would allow questions. We would edit this forum, to remove (or move) messages that have drifted off-topic.

2. Help my Song!
This would be intended for Songwriting. You would post whatever you have for a song, and people would provide input. For example, you might not be a songwriter at all, and you want to get started. You just have an idea for a song (some lyrics, but not completed). People can give you suggestions, tips on changing words etc. to make the lyrics better. Note: It would still be "your song", and contributions from members would be freely given to you.

It could also be help for other things, like with the Mix of the song or whatever. The key point here is that you are *asking* for help and critiques of your song, so people would be free to offer help (in the User Showcase, the songs are presented as finished product, so people are not expected to suggest many changes.


3. AddOns for Band-in-a-Box
This would be for third parties, to list/discuss their add-ons for BiaB (styles, songs/lessons, loops, RealDrums, VST's etc.)

Please comment on the above, and also any other forum ideas? Or different names for the above.
I love #2! When do we start!
the idea of a forum for buying and selling gear has been mentioned more than once. We all have some stuff we'd like to move in order to buy something else.
Posted By: Mac Re: Suggestions wanted for additional forums... - 02/17/13 12:28 AM
Quote:

We would edit this forum, to remove (or move) messages that have drifted off-topic.





THIS is the most interesting part, and I might add, likely to be the most helpful all around.

Especially if the Forum Rules are edited to include such things a hijacked threads rather than someone starting a new thread for a new question, posts about XXXX on YYYY forum, things like that.


Those are some good ideas.


--Mac
another interesting forum might be REVIEWS, where people offer their evaluation of gear, software, books, online training courses, plugins etc that pertain to the hobby of making, performing, or learning about music
Peter, those are three very good ideas for forums!!!
I don't like the idea of another forum that could include "how do I....." questions about BIAB programs as this is already covered with existing forums. It is better to keep all such questions on the existing forums. If you start such a forum it should state that it is NOT for BIAB related questions.

Tony
Creation and Sharing of MIDI styles.

This would probably be an active area of interest.

Thanks for input request!

For #1 a subject How do I produce an in the hand CD?
Thru some number of questions and excellent responses and help
was able to create and produce my Single CD... Bucket list item.....
Sounds like a good idea. I think mixing and songwriting suggestions would be helpful in it's own forum.

Quote:

you might not be a songwriter at all, and you want to get started. You just have an idea for a song (some lyrics, but not completed). People can give you suggestions, tips on changing words etc. to make the lyrics better. Note: It would still be "your song", and contributions from members would be freely given to you.




I don't like the idea of encouraging someone to use others to write their "song idea" for them instead of learning the craft themselves while it remains "their song" - just saying. This wording is sending the wrong message imo because

"(some lyrics, but not completed)" That's crossing the line. We call that "co-writing" in songwriting circles where I come from. If I help with a word or a small suggestion for a song you've written that's one thing. If I flesh out an idea or write any new lines that are used then I am co-writing that song. Slippery slope.

I like Pat's idea of Gear reviews and discussion too where it's all in one place.
Quote:

If I help with a word or a small suggestion for a song you've written that's one thing. If I flesh out an idea or write any new lines that are used then I am co-writing that song.



Josie, could you elaborate why this is a bad thing?

If the argument is just because someone should "learn their craft", it seems to me a legitimate way to do it.

But if you're saying that the ownership of the song quickly becomes a legal mess because the co-writer is automatically part-owner of the song, that's a different story. I've heard plenty of stories where people have claimed "co-writer" credits on a song because of some minor suggestion, and I agree that's problematic.
I gotta go with Josie on this one:

Quote:

I don't like the idea of encouraging someone to use others to write their "song idea" for them instead of learning the craft themselves while it remains "their song" - just saying.




Including a forum that lets other folks “guide” you into a song isn’t the same as writing a song. It’s collaboration. Nothing wrong with that, but it ceases to be “your song”, regardless of the forum rules about input from others.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with someone critiquing a song AFTER it’s written, but I couldn’t possibly care less about what they think of the song before it’s finished. I’ve never gotten an idea about one of my songs from anyone that I even considered worthy of consideration. (Let me stress this. Not even a little bit).

If I had wanted someone else’s input, I would have simply suggested that they write a song for my listening pleasure. But stay the hell out of my song creation. You either like it or you don’t. Don’t ask me to help write one for you.

My vote is a thumbs down for that forum because it would only provide a crutch for someone who can’t complete a song on their own. Write a song. Ask for critiques if you want them. Then write another one. Don't ask someone else to do it for you.

Song writing principles would be fine, but that is easily handled on the OT forum.

Someone else can give you tips for riding a bike, but only you can peddle it down the street.

The “How do I” forum is a good idea, as is “Add On’s for Band-in-a-Box”. But I do think they would take away from the OT forum.
A separate forum, well moderated, for jokes would be a good idea rather than Don's massive thread.

I agree with all Sundance and bobcflatpicker have said about songwriting. ie Mr Gannon's suggestion of "help my song". I too feel that this would not be a positive move as collaborations seem to naturally occur.

+1 for an "add-ons" forum. Maybe with a list of free vsti's that work with the Software.

Some forums should also be "read only" for people that have not registered their PG products. This would not stop newbies gaining insight into PG Music software and we would not loose the people who post and do not have PG software as they could still post in the off topic forum, for example. I have learnt/gained a lot from one in particular.
This could include suggestions on how to improve the products and/or manuals as in the tips and tricks forum now.

Alyn
I belong to a couple songwriting sites where there is peer-to-peer critiquing, suggestions and assistance going on all over the place. It is not that big of a deal to be worried about. None of these songs are going to be radio hits (ha, ha). It doesn't mean the songs aren't any good, it just means that they are folk just like us. If they were on the road to "hits", they wouldn't have time to hang out in songwriting forums.

I am neither for nor against a songwriting section -- but since there are more dedicated sites to this endeavor, it might be a case where it isn't needed. However, maybe some folks use this as a their primary internet site and it would be useful. It would take a while to gain traction, though.

Yes, if one of my songs ever became a "hit", it wouldn't surprise me to get sued by someone on an internet forum claiming to have "helped" me during the creation phase. Of course that person will be someone that didn't really help at all (ha, ha). It is a low probability risk, I do believe, though.

As a songwriter, I enjoy helping other songwriters (aspiring and otherwise) improve their songs by doing critiques and offering suggestions where I can. 90% of the time my opinions are ignored, because the songwriter wants to do what they want to do -- I am OK with that.
Posted By: ROG Re: Suggestions wanted for additional forums... - 02/17/13 01:22 PM
The chances of a song from the songwriting forum becoming a "hit" are indeed small, but it's not impossible. If a song did take off, the incentive for people to claim a share of the royalties would become very tempting. It looks like possibly only the lawyers would win.

In order to make it work, I think you would need a disclaimer similar to that signed by session musicians, but it would be a nightmare to administer.

The used gear forum sounds good, as long as it doesn't start to rival ebay!

ROG.
Songwriting, peer-to-peer critique forums are (or should be) "use at your own risk" types of places.
For a songwriting forum, it should be clearly stated in the rules (posted in a 'sticky') that any and all suggestions become the property of the original writer and that no one else has any claim to the work.
I think all three of Peter’s suggestions are good ones.

As far as co-writing and collaborations I think that should be between the parties themselves. I have collaborated on a number of songs here and over at Kara-Moon. I have also co-written a few with no problems. Of course as you know I also write my own.

One other forum I would like to see is “Hello I’m…..”. This would be a forum where we could all introduce and possibly tell a little bit about ourselves.
Posted By: Mac Re: Suggestions wanted for additional forums... - 02/17/13 02:29 PM
Be careful, though, too many of something tends to cheapen all...


--Mac
Peter, I would love a Joke Thread so long as did not become a Smut Fest. Jokes need not be dirty, racist, or hurtful to be knee-slappin' funny where 'laughter tears' run down the legs.

Quote:

Don,

Your thread is the best thread on the PG forums. Please keep it up!




From a fellow BIABer who believes that humo(u)r need not be dirty, racist, or hurtful in order to be funny.

Thanks for your support.
move the educator forum to pg music forums listing page then promote it in schools and at conferences with a yearly contest awarding software for best practices lesson plans

http://www.pgmusic.com/educators/forum/postlist.php?Board=general
Here's One That My Head Nurse Just Loved

They found a naked dead body of a nurse washed up on the shore today.
How did they know it was a nurse?
She had an empty stomach, a full bladder, and her butt was chewed out.

MODERATORS: POSTED IN WRONG THREAD - SORRY!
Josie said:
Quote:

Sounds like a good idea. I think mixing and songwriting suggestions would be helpful in it's own forum.




+1

It became apparent shortly after the introduction of Real Tracks that users of PGMusic products were actually finishing their songs, and the problems they were addressing pertained more to mixing and mastering than to song creation. As such, a forum dedicated to answering the questions that this group is most likely to have seems like a VERY good idea
Quote:

move the educator forum to pg music forums listing page then promote it in schools and at conferences with a yearly contest awarding software for best practices lesson plans

http://www.pgmusic.com/educators/forum/postlist.php?Board=general




another +1

Considering the fact that there are so many ways to use this suite of products...
1) education/ music lessons/ school curriculum
2) auto accompaniment
3) practicing
4) recording
5) mixing/mastering
6) performing
7) collaborating / help my song
8) 3rd party add-ons

the "how do I " questions should fall under specific headings. This would account for the fact that everybody is at a different place in the learning curve. The person who just bought the software doesn't need to get overwhelmed by wading through "how to" posts about mastering. Likewise, the advanced user tends to get impatient with the same never-ending newbie questions

plus the usual product specific forums that answer questions about how to setup and use the software

9) BIAB win
10) BIAB Mac
11) RealBand
12) Power Tracks
13) extra content (how to use all the other cool stuff that comes with BIAB)

it makes sense to have specific forums for each of these uses



and the forum itself has taken on a clubhouse persona, in which many of us congregate here for social interaction. It might keep the information/ how-to forums more searchable if the social stuff were dedicated to a specific area. For example:

14) CLUBHOUSE (members only) <-creates an incentive to buy and register the product)
__14a) Gear for sale or trade
__14b) Reviews (what's the best/worst ______?)
__14c) Humor (jokes, tall tales, gigging stories etc)
__14d) Links of interest (check out this band, product, idea)
__14e) General Discussion
Quote:

But if you're saying that the ownership of the song quickly becomes a legal mess because the co-writer is automatically part-owner of the song, that's a different story. I've heard plenty of stories where people have claimed "co-writer" credits on a song because of some minor suggestion, and I agree that's problematic.




This would not become a mess because the person who creates the song initially is the "First Copyright Holder" any suggestion or change is covered in Copyright Law under derivative works i.e. if I changed the lyrics to "Dancing Queen" to "Jelly Beans" popular ABBA song I cannot claim a new copyright and I would still have to pay dues to the writers.

Online collaboration seems like the way forward people are uploading songs on Soundcloud and remixing each others work, as long as you have the consent of the "First copyright holder" and you agree to a final collaborative new "second Copyright jointly with the other writer there is no issue.

When it comes to proving copyright most patent attorneys agree that it would be a body of evidence rather than one single piece of evidence that would determine a case and the while side with the deepest pockets could determine the outcome this would not necessarily be so.

Darren
Quote:

I belong to a couple songwriting sites where there is peer-to-peer critiquing, suggestions and assistance going on all over the place. It is not that big of a deal to be worried about. None of these songs are going to be radio hits (ha, ha). It doesn't mean the songs aren't any good, it just means that they are folk just like us. If they were on the road to "hits", they wouldn't have time to hang out in songwriting forums.

I am neither for nor against a songwriting section -- but since there are more dedicated sites to this endeavor, it might be a case where it isn't needed. However, maybe some folks use this as a their primary internet site and it would be useful. It would take a while to gain traction, though.

Yes, if one of my songs ever became a "hit", it wouldn't surprise me to get sued by someone on an internet forum claiming to have "helped" me during the creation phase. Of course that person will be someone that didn't really help at all (ha, ha). It is a low probability risk, I do believe, though.

As a songwriter, I enjoy helping other songwriters (aspiring and otherwise) improve their songs by doing critiques and offering suggestions where I can. 90% of the time my opinions are ignored, because the songwriter wants to do what they want to do -- I am OK with that.




Kevin, you are dead right! For these types of conversations we tend to always worry about the most unlikely things! Yeah, it is possible a hit could come outta here but highly unlikely! So let the 99.999999% have a good conversation and learning experience and don't worry too much about the highly unlikely. Want another good example? Since Feb 1, 2013, as of this writing, there have been 5,329 new songs posted over at FAWM.org and many of those are collaborations between two or more people. No one there seems very concerned about song theft or ownership issues. We write the songs, post the songs, collaborate, critique and learn!
Quote:

Be careful, though, too many of something tends to cheapen all...


--Mac




Having a single "Off-Topic" forum is messy, but there are advantages for the visitor.


I assume PG MUSIC has already thought about this, but this requires more moderation. Potentially, you'll begin to see more, "I'm posting here on "Off Topic" because nobody visits "..." threads. People tend to get surly with the moderators (depends on the moderators, but...). Once threads get moved, you'll start seeing threads like, "What happened to the thread about...?"

I'm understating what I've seen elsewhere.

More moderation! (man-hours)


After you subtract core post types from the Off Topic forum, what kind of future does the OT forum have?
However, Peter's first sentence says "We are planning on adding some additional forums..."


1. How Do I...?

This is a staple of the "Off Topic" forum. The big question is whether someone who is capable of answering such a question will venture onto a forum that will largely contain "newbie" type questions. In the "Off Topic" forum, there have been 100's over the years who would help out of the kindness of their hearts, but they were already on the "Off Topic" forum.


2. Help My Song

This is another staple of the Off Topic forum. BiaB is a tool for the songwriter. I think it is logical to break the "critique my song" and "fix my mix" topics out in their own forum.

I absolutely share Josie' misgivings about writing from scratch. (I'm NOT talking about general comments during song creation like "try switching to a minor chord here", etc.)


3. Add on's for BiaB

I see a commercial advantage for PG Music in doing this.

This is new turf, because these folks have largely been excluded from the Off Topic forum, at least for commercial purposes.

I have one MAJOR misgiving. About the only one currently present on the Off Topic forum is Notes Norton. Some forum members have been upset that he included even a tag line about his styles. It's never bothered me, ever. I've thought he has kept a good balance.

For me, Notes Norton has been in the top handful of Off-Topic forum posters over the years.

When I see Norton's name attached to a thread, I read it. It's almost always worth my time.

If he's both places fine, but anything that causes him to leave the "Off Topic" forum is BAD.


**********
I think Alyn's ("Gibson's) suggestion about making some forums read only for PG product non-registered posters has GREAT merit.
**********


n. Reviews

I think Pat Marr's idea about a "Reviews" forum is a fantastic idea!!! But if and only if people would actually post reviews.

There's a problem with it though, (and also forum idea #1). Many years ago, we used to be able to search 5 years (or more) back. Now posts seem to be unavailable after a couple of years. (I haven't checked this lately.) If someone reviews a microphone, for example, I may be very interested, but not able to seriously shop (purchase) for a couple of years. Then the review's gone.

This is a forum that should be read-only for non-registered! That cuts out (or greatly reduces) the phony troll-type reviews.


n+1. Jokes

I disagree strongly about a jokes forum. Don's thread took off, but through the years one of the things that has given the "Off Topic" forum its flavor was the occasional joke post.
Quote:

There's a problem with it though, (and also forum idea #1). Many years ago, we used to be able to search 5 years (or more) back. Now posts seem to be unavailable after a couple of years. (I haven't checked this lately.) If someone reviews a microphone, for example, I may be very interested, but not able to seriously shop (purchase) for a couple of years. Then the review's gone.




as I see it, one of the best advantages of having more specific forums is to keep the INFORMATIVE posts from scrolling away so quickly. It's the mingling of social posts with technical posts that bloat the forums and make it difficult to find the good information that is there.

Yet, it's the social aspect that keeps people coming (and while they're here they answer questions)

Even if its the social forums that actually generate good information (and that's the way ideas often happen) the info can then be copied or moved to the information forums where they will be easy to find later when somebody wants that information.
Quote:

I assume PG MUSIC has already thought about this, but this requires more moderation. Potentially, you'll begin to see more, "I'm posting here on "Off Topic" because nobody visits "..." threads.




one low-cost way to address this would be to give trusted volunteers moderation permission. Whereas the employees at PGMusic have other work to do, many of the forum members are retired or bored and have time to read the posts daily, copying or moving posts to other forums as necessary.

A free upgrade for a retiree on a fixed income who might not be able to buy otherwise would be a good deal for both parties.

And to keep people from burning out, the moderator could be changed every 6-12 months. This would keep diligence at a maximum and would allow more fixed-income retirees to have the most recent version.
regarding MEMBERS ONLY forums...

I think the friendly banter is a drawing card for new customers. When potential customers visit the site and see the supportive community, they want to belong to it. Therefore, I think everybody should have READ access, much like now.

WRITE access is currently also available to anyone, they just have to sign up. (Which makes it easy for spammers to join and post)

But if write access required a registered version of the product, I think it would not only keep out bots and spammers, it would also encourage people who may be using a "borrowed" copy to buy and register a legitimate copy.

Also there are probably some who are on the fence about buying, and the option of joining the community will push them over the edge.
“But if write access required a registered version of the product, I think it would not only keep out bots and spammers, it would also encourage people who may be using a "borrowed" copy to buy and register a legitimate copy.

Also there are probably some who are on the fence about buying, and the option of joining the community will push them over the edge.”




I am reluctant to comment, being a mere 'Journeyman', but I think that restricting write access would actually lose potential customers.

As for “CLUBHOUSE (members only)”, I would have to agree with Groucho Marx on that one. A bit too elitist for me.




Regards,

Bob
I think there is a place for a users-only forum. Propellerhead (mfr of "Reason" DAW/soft synth) think so, too. They have four. The General, Suggestions, and Music forums are open to all, the User forum to registered owners only. There is a great deal of overlap between the General and Users forum. The General forum deals more with prospective owners and basic questions, the Users forum more with experienced users and advanced subjects. I think there may be a small amount of status involved, but I don't think it keeps anyone away; in fact, it may be an incentive to join and get in on the fun stuff.

Just my two centibucks' worth.

R.
Been thinking about this a lot since the thread was put up. And there have been a lot of good points brought up.

While the Off-Topic forum does, at times, seem kind of a "jumble", I would hate to see it broken into too many pieces. There are many times that I think a thread will not interest me, but I "take a quick peek", end up reading the whole thing and learning things that I would otherwise not have learned.

This is the only forum that I have ever participated in. It has a great "community/family" feel to it. Would hate to see that change because "some of the kids have started hanging out with elsewhere" (...other areas of the forum).

I did spend a lot of time reading posts in another forum (but never "joining"), years ago at pizzamaking.com - learned everything I know about pizza making there - it was (and probably is still) a terrific forum - filled with everything you could ever want to know about making pizza. At the time, it was similiar to what this forum is now - just a few "main heading" forums. Reading the main one regularly provided information on every type of pizza and every brand of ingredient and what work for people and what didn't.... it was interesting, informative, and entertaining.

Then... they decided to "make it better" by categorizing. The different types of pizza all got their own area. So did each of the ingredients. Suddenly,, you had to go to 20 different forum areas to "learn" the things that you used to get all-in-one.

I quit going.
Peter,

This is YOUR, or at least your company's, forum to do with as you see fit. But the current status quo is bad because? is limited how? Even the one that apparently inspired this in you has not been hampered by only using the OT for general "music" related topics that I can see.

And since you put it out there:

#1 - if done CORRECTLY each Q&A would end up as "sticky" at top of that particular forum (so there would lots of 'em at top of forum) or better yet end up as FAQ with "monographs" within each topic specialty (which I suspect 95+% of anything anyone could ask is already somewhere else on the web, or on this forum, in other forums, …)

#2 - my crystal ball sees problems there but I have no dog in that fight: I wouldn’t be participating on that on at all (safer that way)

#3 - isn’t that what the wish list forums are for?

My tone above is simply "to the point" it is NOT meant to be caustic or sarcastic I respect you, your company and I LOVE your products - best value in music SW going!


Larry
Some other forums that I frequent have sections and/or stickies for beginners. Maybe within the "How do I.....?" forum have a section on "Getting Started" or something similar. I think that some of the existing videos would be great for adding to the "stickies" as well. Or, if not a forum for beginners, there could be one for "Advanced Users". No, sadly I do not consider myself an advanced user.

Stan
Hi Peter,
I would like to see a forum with access to tutorial video's, both yours and users (that have been vetted first)
The forum could have links to all relevant video's.
This would provide a one stop place for beginners and also more advanced users to assist with the ins and outs of Band In A Box and maybe Realband.

Yours
George
to me more forums is one thing getting information out of them is another

i would like to see maybe a forum or page dedicated to efficient searching the forums using the default search option and something other than the default search option if that option doesn't provide the desired results

the objective is example search scenarios

power searching google
http://www.google.com/insidesearch/landing/powersearching.html

advanced power searching google
http://www.powersearchingwithgoogle.com/course/aps

How To Create Your Own Custom Google Search Engine
http://www.howtogeek.com/124703/how-to-create-your-own-custom-google-search-engine/
My thoughts:
  • I very much like the idea of a "How Do I...?" forum. It could start off with a sticky or three aiming people toward the Tutorials and Videos, and maybe every month or three we could combine and organize the best questions and answers into a new Forum FAQ (Read This First), or perhaps FAQs by general subject.
  • I also like Help A Song. I suspect subject lines should start with a very broad keyword, e.g., Songwriting, Mixing, Mastering. I do agree that the "songwriting" aspect should not be collaboration; the entire thing should be based on Technique, and maybe that's the heading to use for the forum.
  • I'm good with a Yard Sale forum or somesuch, for people wanting to get rid of old gear to a good home, as long as it is explicitly clear that PG Music is only putting up the electronic whiteboard and has nothing whatsoever to do with the gear, the transaction, or the after-effects. (Cue Wash in Firefly: "Curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal!")
  • An Add-on forum would be fantastic. Notes Norton needs someone to keep him on his toes.
  • Dunno if a new Style forum is necessary; maybe the User Showcase could become something like "User Showcase: Files and Styles".
  • GIVE DON HIS JOKE FORUM NOW PLEASE I WILL HAS AN ENORMOUS SAD IF THE CHICKEN DOES NOT DANCE
  • A "New Gear Reviews" forum would also be great, encompassing both hardware and software.
  • I think the Styles Wishlist should be incorporated into the general BIAB Wishlist, just for convenience. If we have a few right at the beginning with the subject line (e.g.) "STYLE REQUEST: Classical Strings", with elaboration in the body, I think the format will catch on quick.
  • I very much DISLIKE the notion of a Users Only forum. One of the unique strengths of BIAB is this community. We help with pre-sales, we ease people in, we make 'em feel welcome. Having to register your product to get to a special forum defeats the entire purpose, I think.
Whew! Didn't expect to go on so long. My 49 cents, I guess.
Posted By: Flatfoot NEITHER Band in a Box NOR Real Band - 02/19/13 03:05 PM
.
We need a forum for the sounds that are part of PG Music, yet are neither Band in a box NOR Real Band.

When I have something to share about Real Tracks or Sampletank, I don't know where to put it. It is not specific to RB or to BiaB. It is not "off topic" either - most questions and comments about RTs and Samples are directly related to music production in one of these programs, sometimes both.

I have thought a lot about this, and still don't have a good idea for what a good descriptive name for such a forum might be. Still workin' on that one...
Posted By: Flatfoot ff sez: No joke forum - 02/19/13 03:07 PM
I see no need for a separate joke forum. If there is a problem with the joke threads that are currently active, I dont see it. Works fine for me.
.
Thanks for asking, Peter.
Posted By: Don Gaynor Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/19/13 03:37 PM
Quote:

I see no need for a separate joke forum. If there is a problem with the joke threads that are currently active, I dont see it. Works fine for me.



If you look at LAST POST in the JOKE topic then you don't have to scroll through 50+ pages to find the most recent additions. You may have to scroll back a page or two.
Posted By: MikeK Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/19/13 03:53 PM
How about just adding a NON-MUSIC related "General Discussion" forum that can encompass everything already mentioned?

Mike
Posted By: 90 dB Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/19/13 04:03 PM
I'm starting to change my mind on the "Clubhouse" idea. Maybe we could build a treehouse with a rope ladder, and pull it up so none of the uncool kids could get in.
Posted By: PeterGannon Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/21/13 10:28 AM
Some other suggestions for forums:

- Introduce Yourself!
I've seen this on other forums, self-exaplanatory, lets people post info about themselves, musical interests etc.

- Custom Style Shop
These would be posts listing instruments used to make a new style. This could just be a text listing of the RealTracks/MIDI SuperTracks numbers, or a link to a style if you've made one (ie- using the combinations). Or maybe its just one of our styles, with an instrument removed (which makes it sound better). Maybe with a link to an audio of how the style sounds. These would be free for anyone to use, no restrictions.

- Video Tutorials for BiaB
A dedicated forum for the various video tutorials, one topic for each video. Allowing comments, or suggestions for new videos, or posting your own tutorials. (the tips and tricks have some of these, but users have requested a dedicated area for videos.
Posted By: musiclover Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/21/13 11:28 AM
Just think though that if there are too many forums then all the info and questions abotu biab will get scattered all over the place, will help nobody especially the new folks.

Maybe 2 or 3 new forums would be ok for a start to see how it goes.

Musiclover
I would like to see a forum dedicated to Mixing and Mastering, with video tutorials for Realband.

I also like the idea of a songwriters forum, where you could have topical reading where folks could share nuggets of wisdom about songwriting, as well as collaboration section if someone so chooses.
Posted By: George Nelson Re:Custom Styles Forum - 02/21/13 12:18 PM
Hi Peter,

+1 for the Custom Styles, I think this would add additional insight to using the RealTracks & MIDI.
It would also open up many different ideas to users of Band In A Box and Realband.

George
Posted By: Brallan Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/21/13 04:57 PM
Peter:

I think that before you add more forums, and proliferation of info, the search function and the archive storage need improvement.

Are you in the process of trying out new forum software?? Of course it would be an adjustment for us, but, IMO, well worth it.
Posted By: Shastastan Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/21/13 05:20 PM
+1 for the videos forum.

I like the idea of more specific forums rather than one general discussion. Specific forums save time.

Stan
Posted By: PeterGannon Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/21/13 06:17 PM
Yes, improvement (upgrade) of the forum software is planned, and that should bring a better search, and new features.
Posted By: Joe V Using Tags to categorize posts - 02/21/13 06:27 PM
I've been on a number of forums, and I've often posted only to the Off-Topic forum because it seems to be viewed and 'open' enough for discussions rather than more targeted, narrow question-answer topics that leave less room for discussion.

One of the broadest, most useful forums that I belong to is MakeUseOf.com, and they have one of the most useful "Ask" sections I've ever seen for technology related topics. They have professional, company moderators that view, edit, reword and clarify if necessary, all posts before they are published. There is a wait time for this between the time you post and the time you can view your post.

When entering the ASK section, each user sees ALL posts - regardless of category, so interested parties can view the equivalent of 'all forums' from clicking on one bookmark, without the need to subscribe or do any sort of active filtering.

What keeps this website useful is the moderators and the TAGS. Each question, as part of the moderator review, is TAGGED to one or more consistent categories that reflects the areas it touches upon. Each single question may of course have MULTIPLE tags, and each tag is actually a link that users can click if they'd like to view only questions on a particular topic.

http://www.makeuseof.com/answers/

I think this type of tagging would be useful in the PG forums, but then again I'm not sure UBB threads allows it. If tags could be implemented across forums, while preserving the existing structure, that could also be useful for those looking for targeted information.

Also - the MakeUseOf.com Ask forum is quite different in the amount of active maintenance required, and the lag between posting and viewing your topic : ) But perhaps some of their procedures might be incorporated at some level.

By the way, in addition to the MakeUseOf Ask section, the main site is comprised of articles written on how to get the most out of the internet via the free or low-cost internet web-based tools and utilities. The articles always open explaining the need for the tool, and 'selling it' as "You could really use this because...". The articles are also tagged, and as in the Ask section, one can search all articles having particular tags by clicking on the TAG name link. This would also lend itself to what goes on here in the Forum post section.

Were I ever to design a website, I particularly like the MakeUseOf format. Has anyone been on other websites/forums where they've found design particularly useful and navigable ?
Posted By: pwarren Re: ff sez: No joke forum - 02/21/13 06:57 PM
A plugins forum might be useful. People could review plugs and make recommendations etc.
I'd like to suggest a new forum called "Monthly BIAB Songwriting Challenge" or maybe the more inclusive and less competitive "Monthly BIAB Songwriting Gathering."

The idea would be invite forum members to write and submit a song based on that month's theme: for example, a road song, or a river song, or a song about a city, a tree, etc. There are hundreds of possibilities.

Forum members could send in suggestions and each month one theme would be selected.

I used to belong to a songwriting group where we did this weekly. I was a bit skeptical at first, but it actually was a lot of fun to hear the variety of songs people would write from a common idea.

I think it would be a great showcase for BIAB's strengths and provide an opportunity for many forum-members to unite in a single goal.

It seems like the rules would be pretty simple:

1) Write to that month's theme

2) The backing tracks should be mostly, but not entirely, BIAB/RB


You could give awards each month for best melody, best lyrics, best use of BIAB/RB tracks.

John
Posted By: MikeK Re: Using Tags to categorize posts - 02/22/13 03:18 AM
Quote:

Has anyone been on other websites/forums where they've found design particularly useful and navigable ?




I actually think that this PG Board is one of the easiest to navigate compare to all I've come across. The trick is to just apply the KISS method. Yes, search could use a little work, but going nuts on too many additional forums would probably not be beneficial to the ease of use and navigation. The additions need to be carefully thought out, IMHO, otherwise, you'd destroy something already good by trying to make it better.

Just my 2 pints of Lager.

Cheers,
Mike
Quote:

I'd like to suggest a new forum called "Monthly BIAB Songwriting Challenge" or maybe the more inclusive and less competitive "Monthly BIAB Songwriting Gathering."

The idea would be invite forum members to write and submit a song based on that month's theme: for example, a road song, or a river song, or a song about a city, a tree, etc. There are hundreds of possibilities.

Forum members could send in suggestions and each month one theme would be selected.

I used to belong to a songwriting group where we did this weekly. I was a bit skeptical at first, but it actually was a lot of fun to hear the variety of songs people would write from a common idea.

I think it would be a great showcase for BIAB's strengths and provide an opportunity for many forum-members to unite in a single goal.

It seems like the rules would be pretty simple:

1) Write to that month's theme

2) The backing tracks should be mostly, but not entirely, BIAB/RB


You could give awards each month for best melody, best lyrics, best use of BIAB/RB tracks.

John




John I was with you 100% until the "Awards" . . . . too subjective, but that might be just me as OMMV.

Later,
Quote:

John I was with you 100% until the "Awards" . . . . too subjective, but that might be just me as OMMV. -- Danny C.




That was my exact thought also.
How about a 'meetup' forum, where people that are big fans of BB can possibly meet other musicians that have an interest in either/both socializing in person and/or playing music in person, and sharing tips face-to-face for using BB/RB/RT via 'show and tell' type gatherings, e.g. "Here's how I have fun using the product, and here are some things I do with it. Also "Hey - there's a great music performance coming up at _{fill in venue}_ - would you like to go ?"

Actually - if bandwidth wansn't such a large issue, some of the above could be done live,remotely. And to get around the bandwidth issue, this could also of course be done via people posting videos, though then you lose the spontaneity and live interaction. I'm always in front of my computer - I really need to meet people in person and get out more (any of you out there feel the same ?)

I'm wondering if there are even enough people here in NYC that are enthusiastic enough about the product to want to do something similar to the above. Are there even enough enthusiasts that might also want to "Connect with other BB/RB/RT users in my local area" ? The only place in NYC that I've found anyone to discuss the product with is in my own basement when I'm in front of the amazing Internet connection that lets me converse with you guys in many different places.

How many more enthusiasts are out there, and are there any more here in NYC ? BB/RB/RT is quite a sophisticated product, and the people that are enthusiastic about it are generally a pretty interesting, intelligent bunch - certainly a pool from which I'd like to (and have made) new friends.

Here, for example, is a meetup.com website for people that like to practice. There are other meetups in NYC for people that like bluegrass, technology, socializing, etc. Why can't we use the PG forums to attract people locally to do something similar in our own localities ?

http://www.meetup.com/NYC-Group-Music-Practice-Together-we-all-get-better/?gj=ej1b&a=wg2_cio
Quote:

Quote:

John I was with you 100% until the "Awards" . . . . too subjective, but that might be just me as OMMV. -- Danny C.




That was my exact thought also.




I’m with Danny on this one also. Why make it a competition?

However I’m also against #2. Yes PGMusic software should absolutely have been used in the song production but mostly is the part I object too. What if someone only used the drum part of a style? Or just a couple of style tracks but add more of their own tracks? Or someone recorded a band live in RB? These would not be eligible but they would showcase other uses of PGMusic software.

Just my thoughts.
Not sure where to put this. I was just reading a post on the BIAB Windows section. The OP had not purchased BIAB yet and commented that he probably needs BIAB For Dummies. I thought now that would be a book many would buy, including me and it could be sold right off of the PG website and other places. There's still a market for DTB's (dead tree books) especially technical ones. They made a video called BIAB for Bozo's once. It started off with a bunch of audio setup stuff and that caused my eyes to glaze over. I can understand the need for that type of info, but not at the beginning. The book should start with a chapter called "Quick Start". The book could include videos or have urls to them.

If I put this in the wrong place, sorry.

Stan
Peter, a good thread suggestion judging by the comments. Here are a few I would like to see. They could be a combination of or variance of previously listed ones.They would be titled.
Performance-tips on stage presentation, material (inc jokes), audience involvement,
Gear Review-comments by members on gear they have actually used.
All About Me-pictures of members entertaining, their studios, their gear.
Music Source-where members can see and/or hear other members arrangement for songs.

Thanks for reading. D
Quote:

Peter, a good thread suggestion judging by the comments. Here are a few I would like to see. They could be a combination of or variance of previously listed ones.They would be titled.
Performance-tips on stage presentation, material (inc jokes), audience involvement,
Gear Review-comments by members on gear they have actually used.
All About Me-pictures of members entertaining, their studios, their gear.
Music Source-where members can see and/or hear other members arrangement for songs.

Thanks for reading. D




I like the idea about sharing performance tips, clever one-liners, audience interaction techniques, humorous songs. There's a lot of performing experience here. I'm sure there's a treasure trove of good ideas waiting to be mined
The idea of local in-person user groups getting together to "jam" on BIAB would be outstanding.

Possibly another forum entitled "Local User Groups" could be a place users could go to post their location and willingness to form such in-person groups.

Individual contacts could be made via PMs so contact information would not be made known worldwide.

In larger cities, the groups could even come together re: specific genres of music.

Most of us do or could have BIAB on a laptop so the users could bring their own puters with them and not only collaborate in writing new songs but also share a ton of HANDS ON in-person tips and tricks.

I would strongly urge PG to consider creating just such a forum.

Jim
Quote:

"Local User Groups" could be a place users could go to post their location and willingness to form such in-person groups.

Individual contacts could be made via PMs so contact information would not be made known worldwide.





This is something I've been interested in for quite some time - forums are amazing, but is no replacement for the spontaneity and enjoyment of human face-to-face interaction.

Regarding locations - I think a simple solution to the matter of keeping private information private would be to post the nearest Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts address, or some other public meeting place.
User Group forums Someplace where folks interested in starting such groups could post and maybe get a group going in there area. Also giving news flashs from the groups about when and where they will be meeting and how many are attending. I'm ready to get together with others in the Kansas City Area but don't know anyone who is using the program here besides myself.
Perhaps a Copyright Information sticky that listed general information, plus links to Official Government sites by country. Copyrights seem to be a constantly recurring question.
Quote:

Perhaps a Copyright Information sticky that listed general information, plus links to Official Government sites by country. Copyrights seem to be a constantly recurring question.




This is a great suggestion

[edit] an after thought is what country should be listed? Many users live outside of Canada, including myself.
Quote:

Quote:

Perhaps a Copyright Information sticky that listed general information, plus links to Official Government sites by country. Copyrights seem to be a constantly recurring question.




This is a great suggestion

[edit] an after thought is what country should be listed? Many users live outside of Canada, including myself.



Mario, I was thinking USA, Canada, UK for starters, then add according the language popularity. I realize in can get complicated with the plethora of European languages.

A disclaimer would be prudent to protect PG Music.
There's a lot of posts in the forums about music theory, composition, reharmonization, chords etc. It would be good to have a dedicated forum where these posts could be answered along with discussions and shared knowledge about all aspects of music theory.

Alan
+1
There have been a lot of good topics mentioned for additional forums, ... but I have one burning question.

Aren’t ALL of these topics already being more than adequately covered by the Off Topic forum?

I think the only thing you would accomplish by splitting these topics off into separate forums would be to reduce the number of viewers on the Off Topic forum and create new forums that would soon die of neglect because there’s only so much that can be discussed on a daily basis for any of the topics.

The Off Topic forum stays active by the diversity of topics available and I’m pretty sure that none of the suggested topics are being neglected by their inclusion in the Off Topic forum.

To use an old cliché, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

Just my 2 cents.
I agree with Bob.

Consider the many forums for Cakewalk software. There are arguably more total users on the SONAR forum than on here, and they have many choices of specific subforums in which to post, yet you regularly read posts that start "I know this should be in the X forum, but this is where everyone is, so I'm posting here ...".

Now, posters there are arguably more argumentative than here, but that's another topic.
Wanna make somethin outa it, Matthew?!

I, also, think we have enough forums but need better search options. I don't want to be required to search several different forums to try to determine WHERE something was posted. Search function should find it wherever.
I would like to see a forum where users could exchange knowledge about using (primarily midi) style creation tools such as the metachord editor. Secondarily, exchange user created styles.
I really like a mixed posting listing thats mentioned above.
You see more or less all posting titles, then go to the
one you want to read. Maybe used current style header
with the Mixed titles as a selection. Lousy name, but?
Quote:

There have been a lot of good topics mentioned for additional forums, ... but I have one burning question.

Aren’t ALL of these topics already being more than adequately covered by the Off Topic forum?

I think the only thing you would accomplish by splitting these topics off into separate forums would be to reduce the number of viewers on the Off Topic forum and create new forums that would soon die of neglect because there’s only so much that can be discussed on a daily basis for any of the topics.

The Off Topic forum stays active by the diversity of topics available and I’m pretty sure that none of the suggested topics are being neglected by their inclusion in the Off Topic forum.

To use an old cliché, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

Just my 2 cents.









+1.

However, I do think if the three forums that the Dr. suggested were started, the OT forum would cover all the extraneous topics.



Regards,

Bob
Quote:


Aren’t ALL of these topics already being more than adequately covered by the Off Topic forum?





Bob - to your point, they are being covered, and quite well. What would make the site even more useful would be:

1.) encouraging and promoting increased activity in targeted areas of interest (both for PG, and for users - hence this thread)
--> to do this, the most useful thing would be creation of new, separate forum names that have 'meaningful, descriptive titles' - reflecting the topic and the fact that the company promotes and supports this area. These should be kept to a minimum to avoid cluttering the site, as others have suggested.

2.) smart tagging that allows users to easily locate all useful posts on a particular, narrow topic
--> for example, see the attached snapshot of the "Answer" section on makeuseof.com

http://www.makeuseof.com/answers/

Notice that on their view - which encompasses "all useful things found on the Internet" - a very broad area - they don't even separate things into forums. There is only one click that allows a user to view ALL QUESTIONS asked. But, each question has been edited by moderators to ensure it reflects the content and utility of the post. For example

Quote:

How can I add words or shortcuts to my Gmail dictionary?
Asked by: Dave Bakker in the Email category.
Tagged: dictionary, email, gmail, gmail tips
5
Answers
Not yet





Look at the tags given this question - 4 particular very narrow, smart tags that index what the question is about from MULTIPLE perspectives - if a user wants to learn more about any particular topic, they simply click the tag link. A user that asks a question may not even know what tags to place on their post, and whether they will be consistent with the existing sites tags - hence the need for moderators and carefully chosen tags.

This tagging would, I think, allow as many or as few additional forums, while still allowing the increased utility for finding previously posted information about narrow topics.
I'd like to suggest a WIKI dedicated to esoteric musical terminology, especially related to BIAB. All users could ask as well as answer without burdening the moderators unnecessarily.

For example: What does Soloist mean by "Outside"? I have an idea but as a theory-challenged Oyrishman, I may only be digging the hole deeper. In Canadian, its probably soloing "ootside", dunno. Anyone may answer.
Peter, If I had one choice for a seperate fourm, it would be Computers. Since this is the one thing that decides the end results of our hrs. of tweaking. We should have from the start, guidence to help select and use this tool. A capeable computer also cost as much or more than BIAB/RB. The folks on this group of forums have the knowledge and are willing to help first timers and seasoned users get the most of a good thing. The Steel Guitar Fourm has computers seperate, and it is a busy place. The BIAB section has maybe three post per week,go figure. ---------Leon
There is no need for any extra forums.

Why not just scan down the list of titles in the existing forums to see if there is anything that interests you? More forums will simply lead to more forums that I never open. More forums will also lead to posts in the wrong forums - look how often people post to the "tips and tricks" when it should be in a different one.

Tony
After reading all the suggestions once more, I (personally) feel that just one additional forum "might" be of benefit. Currently, ALL Forums are "music related". We just need one "true off-topic" forum where you can talk and discuss about anything. Call it "Social Exchange", or whatever.

Cheers,
Mike
A seperate wishlist for Real Tracks.
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