Right, I've been talking about this off and on here for years. I'm in LA and that's the way it is. The idea that this guy who wrote the article thinks that trying to reason with a club owner is going to get him anywhere is wishful thinking. He's assuming there's an audience out there who gives a crap about what we consider to be live music. There isn't. Not anymore. Don't be fooled by a few friends and relatives who love our stuff. That's not a career or a following.

The reason the bands play for free is they need a venue to make a decent video that they can put up on their website and link to on Facebook and all the social media sites they use. Most here hardly know anything about that but that's the name of the game. I just mentioned a week or so ago my little story about a similar club owner who was in the club listening to us but insisted on our website and Facebook links so he could check how many "friends" we had. Since we're a bunch of old farts it's called Face what??

The restaurant that I used to do Friday night jazz gigs for over 5 years down on the pier in Hermosa Beach changed owners last year. It went from Sangria's, a good Italian place with sidewalk seating and a combination sports bar/lounge where we played to the American Junkie. Nice, eh? No, they're not referring to drugs they're referring to sports junkies. The place is absolutely packed on a Friday night. Who cares about a band?

What to know what's really happening now? Check out the Palms in Vegas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMe5eeXqys

The Lounge at the Palms is one of the hippest places there. I just happened to see this just this morning surfing Youtube by accident. This video is from 2006 so I went to the Palms website and found this guy Stendek is the main Friday night's entertainment right now this week so he must be a hit. He's the 2010 Boss looping champion. Gee, I'm so impressed I can't stand it. I forced myself to look up that looping contest and there must have been 2000 kids there yelling and screaming. I'm not saying he doesn't have any talent, he can do a few things but Friday night prime time at the Palms? You kidding me? Anybody want to go to Vegas with the wife, make some reservations and go see this guy? At least they do have a kick ass band called the Fat City Horns in the rotation but on Monday nights. That's the absolute worst night of the week in Vegas but they are good so there's some real music going on there.

Bob

Pay to play has been an LA staple for decades. Back in '72 I accompanied an acquaintance (who managed a friend's band) to Gazzarri's once to drop off the “Pay” to the booker at Gazzarri's . It wasn't cash for tickets though. It was a more nefarious substance than that. Bands would kill to get onstage at Gazzarri's or the Whiskey back then. That was when the A & R people would actually go to hear shows. They were signing everybody with a pulse.

It was different at the Troub, though. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubadour_(Los_Angeles).

It was more open to new talent and musician-friendly.



As for Mr. Looper, my favorite comment was this:


“music, for those that dont know, is hard. very hard. this, this is a born gift gift of music! “

90 db yep, so right. My sister did one of those at the Whiskey maybe 15 years ago. Maybe 6 or 8 years ago the bass player booked us as a trio with me playing organ bass at a nice coffee shop on Fairfax. They "paid" us $50 for the parking plus a sandwich and drink. We did 2 of those "gigs" and then we were told they weren't paying anything any more, not even free sandwiches. They told us they had so many bands asking about playing there for nothing, they figured why pay anything? And I don't blame them, as a business why spend if you don't have to? Nobody cared we were pro level jazz players either. Sure there's always a few jazz fans but not enough to matter. I remember a gig I did at a country club and we started out with some jazz but no, all they wanted was light commercial listening and dance stuff. The 22 year old bartender loved the jazz though and knew the original artists that did them. It was nice to talk to a young guy who was totally into it but it still didn't matter he was the only one who cared. We did Marqueritaville, Brown Eyed Girl and all that similar crap. Again.

Bob

Bob -

Is Dave Pike still kicking around there? We used to listen to him down at a little beach place in Newport.


Regards,

Bob

+1 for Dave Pike. Great vibes player; spent a lot of time at clubs in Albany.

Dave is one of the things we really miss about SoCal. He is a monster on the vibes, and a nice guy as well.

Sorry, I guess I missed him, don't recognize the name. I just did a search for him in Los Angeles and the last thing I see is from the LA Times in 1996.

Bob

Would it be inappropriate to say that things are this way given supply and demand ? There are just so many people playing music out there, and wanting and willing to pay for free, that these less-talented people/bands are filling the needs of the club owners and crowds, and even willing to pay to play in order to do that. When the supply of musician's that can satisfy the typical restaurant dining crowd, then the pay will go up. There must be far more mediocre musicians out there than there were when you guys enjoyed your 'hey day' generations ago. And the availability of low cost, online lessons and practicing programs is fueling that. That's why I've often made a comment regarding "I don't know how anyone makes money in the music business today if you're not a pop superstar." DJ's can 'generate' enough music for a crowd, and to one of Pat's previous points - there are not enough musically educated, or 'educated' to the point of knowing, seeking out, and being willing to pay the the difference for a band that has mastered their instruments vs. a mediocre band that brings friends and family, or offers a one man show.

There was a time - I'm guessing early 1900's and before, where most people that played music did so in their home for the social aspects, entertaining themselves and their guests, and the joy of playing music. Now, with all the video games, flat screen TV's and great HBO series and movies (and don't forget Downton Abbey !) there's even less need for all the work required to learn to play an instrument (gratification is too delayed).

I think the only chance most above average musicians have in generating some decent side-money from music is in giving lessons - and there, you're also competing with a group of less talented musicians willing to do it for much less money than makes it worthwhile for an experienced, educated, musician.

Times have changed - and so has the model of making money in music, and the hardest hit are those talented musicians that are not superstars.

...IMHO, from my personal observations. That's why I'm glad to have my 'day job' and do music as a hobby - and that's why I don't prioritize more of my time to become more of an expert musician. It will come as the rest of my life and personal priorities allows time for it. And I might even be one of those guys that occasionally plays a gig for very little money - but probably at a place that doesn't regularly pay money anyway.

In my opinion, the heyday of music performing opportunities had very little to do with businesses hiring bands to help their businesses. Although that did happen, the bulk of my performing opportunities came from another source:

There was a sea of postwar youngsters who had time on their hands, and society was trying to figure out how to keep us out of trouble. As I recall, most of the gigs I played were sponsored by organizations, not by businesses.

<broken record>

Which is why I think the phenomenon will repeat when that same group hits retirement and has time on their hands again. From a sociological point of view, what do you DO with a large demographic that needs activities?

Several of the performing musicians in this forum have pointed out that rest homes typically have a budget for entertainment. This is consistent with the past... organizations sponsoring ways to keep a group occupied.

IOt's also worth noting that such gigs are among the few PAYING opportunities that consistently show up in lists of venues that are available these days.

</broken record>

Very interesting, Bob. Thanks for the link.

ROG.

As a musician who makes my living from playing music I can equate to all points of view here, the chances are getting fewer to play (for me) being paid & obviously more for playing free. There is however one part of the industry that is thriving & that is synchronization for tv & film, its one of the last bastions where really making money is possible. Instead of crying over one's sort everyone should try & move with the times & search for new opportunities because they are there if you look hard enough & work hard enough to make it possible.

Sounds good to me, please define what "syncronization for TV and film" is, what kind of experience are they looking for and how did you get a gig doing it.

Bob

Bob,

Here are a few places to start.


http://www.musicxray.com/artist/categories

http://filmmusic.net/job_listing.php

http://www.musicdealers.com/deal-board

http://www.broadjam.com/




Regards,


Bob

I was more thinking about publishers who DON'T charge money up front. These sites are a bit like taxi.com & make thier money by charging an annual fee for basically doing nothing! The publisher's that I am talking about only make a percentage on music that they actually place.

Here are some libraries.




http://www.eliasmusiclibrary.com/#home

http://www.revostock.com

http://www.themusicbed.com/?gclid=CJXMwrfB1rUCFQvpnAodi1QA0w#!/get-music-list.php

http://www.apmmusic.com/

thats more the type of libraries & publishers I was talking about

these are the one's that will sign you up & take a percentage. I would more advocate these than the first lot.
thanks for helping out 90db

No problem. It should also be noted that there are approximately 600 million people trying to get licensing deals.


Regards,


Bob