Roland 40xl cube amp - PG Music Forums

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I am trying out a Roland 40XL. It seems to meet my requirements for weight, volume, and versatility. It is a good little amp for use with solid and thinline guitars. But I find it is quite "honky" with used with my flat top and hope that some one may have a solution.
My flattop is a Tanglewood TW45n-DLX-FC4 acoustic electric. It has a Fishman Classic 4 preamp and I removed the piezo and replaced it with a LR Baggs iBEAM transducer pickup (Mac's suggestion). I have tried turning off all the effects particularly the delays and reverbs and gains and running the amp clean as it has that capability. I have also tried the guitar on the black face amp. The amp works great with my Strat, Godin, Tele, 335, and 175. I appreciate that it is designed as an electric guitar amp but I am wondering if there is any mod or pedal I could buy to make the flat top sound a little more palatable?Thanks for any suggestions.
DennisD

Dennis -

Take you guitar down to a music store and plug it into a Blues Junior or a Classic 30. It will sound like butter.

Regards,

Bob

Hi Dennis,

Your pickup setup is designed to take advantage of a true Full Range sound system such as a good PA affords.

Using the 40xl is going to be somewhat of a compromise for the purpose, but there are some things you can do.

EQ -- Try setting the Bass to 1 o'clock, the Mid to about 9 o'clock and the Treble to 1 o'clock or higher. Boosted Lows, Cut Mids and Boosted Highs can help emulate a full range system.

There is only so much you can expect because of the situation, the amp attempts to model several different electric guitar amp types, which are not full range amps at all, to put it mildly. The Electric Guitar amplifier and speaker system typically does not cover the full 20Hz to 20KHz audio range. And if it did, it would sound nasty with the Electric Guitars. The Black Panel sim is likely going to be your best bet here, try the EQ settings given here, don't be afraid to tweak them and just know that you cannot get the nice full sound of your Baggs setup -- just try for the best the amp can do under the circumstances, and never let your audience know, for they likely won't hear it.

--Mac

I'm sorry, but that's bloody hilarious.

"Your pickup setup is designed to take advantage of a true Full Range sound system such as a good PA affords."

ROFLMAO.

The only thing I could find that might even be remotely hilarious about that sentence has more to do with what YOUR PA may sound like. Or possibly your acoustic pickup...

But I'm glad to have provided the entertainment for you.

--Mac

You are quite welcome. Carry on.

I didn't thank you...

I beg your pardon. Carry on.

Good lord what is in the water these days!!

Jim Beam. The Devil's Cut.

Agree with Mac. Even the speakers in the typical electric guitar amp are designed to give you something other than a clean sound. An acoustic amp or a PA system has speakers and an amp to give you the clean sound you need for an acoustic.

Okey Dokey. I guess Tommy has been doing it all wrong. I'll ring him up and tell him.

http://www.guitarworld.com/interview-tom...m-little-little

“On this album, we used Neuman KLM-184 mics and a Rode Australian-made mic as well. We also recorded direct from the pickup in my Maton guitar and miked my AER amp as well. When Kim Person comes to mix, she puts the reverb on the amp signal and leaves the microphones dry. That way you achieve total purity in the acoustic sound of my guitars.”

Why would someone who claims to know so much quote the mics and pickup used in a studio recording scenario when the subject is Live Performance amplification?

Don't see what implication the mics used in a studio have with the discussion of a live amplification system. That is because the two situations have nothing in common.

You mention not one thing about Tommy's live amplification system. I've seen Tommy in live performance three times now, his older amp rack is a thing of beauty in and of itself, plus he sent a line to the house PA as well. Now he's using an AER Compact 60 amp, fed with a few goodies as per below. Let's just say he's using a system that is a tad bit more high fidelity than a Roland 40xl Cube amp.

Quote:

Re: TOMMY's NEW AMP/LIVE SETUP

Postby Martijn » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:36 am

This is what Tommy used last week:
Guitar => Boss TU-2 => AER Colourizer => AER Compact 60 (channel 1) => DI out from Compact 60 to FOH.
I'm not sure whether the Colourizer is the same one that is available in the shops, I don't think so actually.

And, straight from Tommy himself:

Quote:

Here's what Tommy says: "I have stopped using the MidiVerb II as I was getting digital noises in the PA that were a result of the old technology. I'm now using the AER Pocket Tools Colourizer as a preamp and my sound man does all the reverbs and delays out the front. I have gotten used to a dry sound on stage and hearing reverb in the hall. The Pocket Tools are so easy to use and give a real, crystal-clear sound. It's better than using a straight DI for the direct signal, as I can EQ the sound a little for my listening pleasure!

Both the AER alpha amp and the Pocket Tools are compact and easy to travel with. It means that I'm giving my sound man a cleaner signal to work with and he likes to have more control over the reverb anyway."

And, the Baggs IBeam pickup is a wonder in itself, it is the ONLY piezo pickup I've ever known that one can record directly off of and get good results. No. Quack. For just one thing. Tommy does not use the Baggs IBeam pickup. But he certainly does use a full range system, as you can read about above, plus FOH (that means, "Front Of House" -- the fullrange PA)

--Mac

“Why would someone who claims to know so much quote the mics and pickup used in a studio recording scenario when the subject is Live Performance amplification?”

I never claimed to know 'so much', professor. You are the one who always claims to know so much, not I. I've only been playing guitar on stages for over 40 years.
You?
Oh, I forgot - “copyright” restrictions. Right.
As they say in Texas – all hat- no cattle.

Tommy uses the Direct Out from his Compact 60, which, according to the manual, is:
“DI-out Balanced preamp output, pre master, post EQ,
with return and effects. XLR socket” (www.aer-amps.com )

Now, professor, why doesn't he just plug that puppy right into a DI to the “FOH (that means, "Front Of House" -- the fullrange PA)” - (thanks for that – I didn't know that bit of arcane SR terminology)? Why bother with an amp at all? After all, he has the “fullrange PA”, right?

Because an A/E through a direct box into a PA – not a Meyer array, but the average small gig PA – sounds like crap. That's a fact, Jack.

The OP was looking at a $250 amp to play small venues, not a $1100 amp, a $429 Pocket Tool, a $300K Meyer array and a pro SE to run the system.

Oh... the “hilarious” part:

“EQ -- Try setting the Bass to 1 o'clock, the Mid to about 9 o'clock and the Treble to 1 o'clock or higher. Boosted Lows, Cut Mids and Boosted Highs can help emulate a full range system.”

That still gives me a chuckle.

Play nicely children! ....

Come on guys, really!, two gentlemen I admire and respect. Stop it your fighting like school girls over what? A difference in opinion?
Both of you have years of experience, and knowledge. Both have much to share. Your both pretty, now go to your room. Sheezz Louise!

What the heck did the lunch ladies put in the puddin'?!?!

Quote:

....... but I am wondering if there is any mod or pedal I could buy to make the flat top sound a little more palatable?Thanks for any suggestions.
DennisD

I'm a fan of the zoom a1.2u. It's really not that hard to learn. Just sat down with the manual and go through the knobs and buttons until you have it under your thumb. I would rate it as follows.

eq: Excellent. Pretty much worth the price for the eq alone imo.

sims: Very good. If you have a good sounding rig to start with, you can adjust the percent of sim signal
to main signal for some great sounds.

effects: Good. Not studio quality by any means but adequate for live use.

Search u-tube for some demos.

If you demo one in a store, be aware that the presets are pretty worthless (usually too much effects). Make sure the unit is set for the type pickup that's on the guitar you are using, then adjust the presets for a better sound.

I'm also a fan of using a two-way powered speaker over an acoustic amp. I think you get more for you money by going that route.

Thanks for the feedback on my query. I have "played" with the amp some more and would like to advise that to a degree all answers were applicable although at times a bit pointed. Bob I agree that either of the amps you mentioned would provide a truly great sound. I own a Fender (1970) Twin Reverb, Pro Reverb, Frontman 15R, Peavey Bandit 112,and a Peavey Mark 111. I played the flattop through all of them and the sound was great with the exception of the Frontman. It is too small. The problem for me is that they (mine) are all too heavy.Also the Blues Junior and the Classic 30 weigh in around 40# again too heavy. (As a side note the Twin is going to the granddaughters when I visit them in March.) At 22 pounds the weight to 40W rms power was a contributing factor in looking at the Roland. Mac the setting you gave me was pretty darn close in reducing the "honk" and although not that noticeable it was enough that I didn't feel comfortable with the sound, and every musicians knows the drill on that issue. I have also played the flattop through: Genz-Benz, Acoustisonic, Fishman, etc. and there is no doubt they are designed for acoustic guitars. I was trying for a light weight, reasonably powered, versitile amp and I figured there would be some compromises. Jim I tried the Zoom A2.1u and that device smoothed out the sound for me and the flattop and amp sound very good together. It means that I will have to bring the pedal if I want to play my flattop and get the sound I want. I was hoping to avoid that since the amp has enough effects and more than enough amp models for my needs. I was hoping to spoil myself with one stop amp shopping that would allow me to just take the amp and guitar of choice to a gig. Once again thanks for all the suggestions. DennisD

Like the poster above I prefer a good old powered PA speaker some of those have three channels on them. Of course one could go the Bose compact route, but them suckers are costly. Something like this is nice. http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/PM10A. I played on recently at their showroom, and it was reall nice. The have the one with wood cabs as well.

Hey DennisD--

You might try using an adaptor Y cable to jack the Fishman preamp output into the AUX inputs of the Cube.

That should bypass all the amp modeling stuff and may just yield a better sounding situation for the I-Beam preamp.

--Mac