Reading the performing for free thread made me think about this.

Is there an upper age limit for someone who has never gigged before who has built up a reasonable repertoire and wants to start gigging? I have heard a few say that on these forums, for example I'll start gigging when I retire.

As someone who only plays a little for enjoyment, my personal opinion is that starting to gig for the first time when you are in 50's or 60's is very very difficult.

I would imagine the stress involved and for most who contemplate this, it will never happen.

I also think that unless you are a seasoned performer with many hundreds of gigs behind you that really it’s a young person’s game.

I think for the older person trying to start out, gigging can be so intensive, and at an age when most should be taking it easy and watching the old heart, why would someone bring all the stresses upon themselves by doing this?

I have even read that some of the stars are so nervous, people like Lennon sometimes even threw up before he went on stage. I also think that among other things the total stress of going in concert again killed Michael Jackson.

Putting the odd song on youtube is good enough for me.

Musiclover

IMO...
There's no 'age limit' involved.
What's important is knowing one's goal, accepting the fact that it's long (and 'stressful') path to undertake regardless of age.
When we're younger it's easier to give it a shot for the long haul.

I quit playing in bands by 1981 for some of the obvious reasons.
But...I've always had my own recording setup, enjoy writing songs and jamming with others but gigging has no interest or appeal.
Although I'm comfortable with my songs and ability to play copy songs I could never be a solo performer because I don't think I have the voice quality and really prefer being a drummer or rhythm guitarist in a band anyway.
I do it for my own enjoyment only...it's my creative therapy.

Of course, I'm just scratching the surface and there are other aspects to consider also which I will let others comment on.

Good luck weed hopper.

Carry on....

well, for starters, let's redefine the term "gigging"

There is definitely a difference between posting a recorded song to youtube and playing in front of a live audience.

If you want to try your hand at the latter, consider joining one or more of the streaming sites. You can play to live audiences from the comfort of home, get immediate feedback on your performance, earn money, and avoid the one thing that makes gigging unpopular with older folks: carrying heavy gear in and out of buildings!

Lots of older musicians are using streaming sites these days. Costs nothing to join, and it can be a lot of fun... just ask the people who are currently doing it.. Danny, Kemmrich, Josie and some others I can't think of at the moment.

I think playing music to live audiences is an excellent way to keep the ol' synapses active

Musiclover, I doubt that anyone who is just starting to gig will encounter the stress level that professional performers like Michael Jackson did.

You can and should if you have the desire to start. Just be sure of the audience you want to serve. If you are looking to make money then look around where you are and see what bars and such are hiring. Does that match your music?

There should be a lot less stress if playing at nursing homes, VA hospitals etc.

Just pick and choose carefully.

No.

Later,

It is not really "stressful", however it is hard to build up a repertoire and remember it all to gig successfully. I enjoyed doing the Streetjelly thing, but now that I haven't done it since January or so, I am now back to square one. Since I have never gigged at all in the past, I don't have the "muscle memory" to play smoothly or remember all the words unless I practice a lot.

Of course at Streetjelly I had the lyrics up on the computer monitor so that made it easier (ha, ha). I would start out with open mics (don't let Notes see this), because you really only need to learn and memorize three songs or so.

Not really. I don't think there's any age limit unless you impose that upon yourself.

My opinion is that if you are competent on your instrument and can sing well enough to not run the folks out of the room....and some awareness of one's actual, as opposed to imagined limitations would be in order here, then by all means seek out the proper places to gig.

Some of the best musicians are the seasoned citizens and there's no reason why they shouldn't be gigging if they wish.

The small compact PA systems and the technology afforded by laptops and software make this a totally reasonable decision. Back in the day as a young man, I dragged many a 150lb bass bin up a set of stairs and into and out of a club. I don't imagine at 50+ I would want to even consider such a thing but a small compact system with a 30lb sub.... certainly.

Choose the set list and find the club..... have 3 to 4 hours of good danceable music that fits the audience of the venue and go have a good time.

To me, playing for a live audience is something that is magical when it's in the groove.

[quote=Guitarhacker]playing for a live audience /quote]

I will state unequivocally that there is no better drug in the world than playing original music in live band to a receptive audience that knows/sings along during the performance.

I do miss playing in a live band....just not enough to enter the hell, drama and ego BS that becomes intolerable.
Being in a band is a fragile, multi-person marriage so one must gird thy loins for the challenges that arise.

That's my take on it....

It's never too late to start gigging.

And what about nervousness and stress? I can't tell you anything about that because I've never-ever had even a touch of stage fright. It's not automatic and if you have it, you should be able to conquer it - even if you need help (like ethical hypnosis - I actually knew a guy who beat it that way).

As you get older, your choice of songs will probably mature alone with you. I don't think anybody wants to hear a retired guy play rap music - but if it's done well - you never know.

If you want to do it, go out and see other people your age in your area and notice what songs they play, especially which ones work with the audience. Then practice your 'act' until it's polished, and start gigging.

There will be a learning curve for both performance and business, but you're never too old to learn something.

Insights and incites by Notes

but if you ever decide to try your hand at live performance, please keep us posted!

I enjoyed playing in bands, especially on those nights when the band was in the pocket all night and the audience was right there with us too.

However, there have been bands where, yep, it was a drama filled "marriage" to a bunch of guys who often had differences of opinions.....and lets not forget about the girlfriends and wives. You just don't have 3 or 4 other guys to deal with , you also have their wives and girlfriends to deal with as well. And the drama really cranks up when individuals in the band decide to have both a wife and a girlfriend.....

Unbeknownst to me, one band I joined, the other 3 guys in the band had that very situation going on. At the time I had neither a wife or girlfriend. One night, the girlfriends showed up and were hanging and slobbering all over the guys.... so being the odd man out, and none of my business, I went out side on the breaks and sat on the steps and talked with other folks grabbing a breath of air.

I hadn't been there long (on the second break) when I looked across the parking lot to see all 3 of the wives heading towards the door. I guess a girls night out turned into a "I wonder what our guys are up to?" sort of thing.....so one of them says, Are the guys inside? I replied yes they are..... next question: Are they alone? Wow.... straight to the point.... my response was simply raising my hands as if to say, keep me out of this.... OK thanks, and in they went....

It was about time to play again so I entered the club maybe 5 minutes after the women. Inside I saw the 3 wives, the 3 girlfriends, the 3 guys, the club owner and a few bouncers in a circle talking..... didn't look good and I walked to the stage and tuned up..... no need to butt in where I had no business.

Turned out the wives stood back in the dark watching.... one in particular watched as the one with her husband went to the restroom and followed the GF in. Commented to her in the restroom that the drummer sure was a fine hunk of man and what she'd like to do with him....the GF pipes up, he's my boyfriend so hands off..... the wife says Oh F%$& no he isn't , he's my husband and punches the GF right in the face.

The fight spilled out into the club. After it was all sorted out, the owner asked the band...who stays and who gets thrown out? Unbelievably, the guys in the band had their wives thrown out.

Talk about drama for the next month. When they got home, clothes and suitcases were out on the lawns, TV's were smashed, beds were ripped up and pillows slashed, and the one in the fight disappeared for a month and no one knew where she went to.

Drama? Yeah, I've seen some.... never had that problem when I played a solo act.

Likewise for this old band bird.

Since I've long ago paid my live band dues and been writing/recording solo for so long I can sit back and laugh at what others experience.

IMO....
Being in a band endeavor is a business....end of story.
Frail egos and emotions are irrelevant in the big picture.
Band goals should have already been discussed and all should have been on the same page....until things go south, that is.

But...we now have a creative alternative....BIAB.
I'm on my third BIAB song and the musicians are always on time, don't drink one's Sam Adams, smoke one's _____, don't have women issues and never complain.
That works for me.

Back to topic....good luck OP.

this is off topic, but Herb's wife/GF story made me think of something one of the guys at work said at lunch today:

a good way to tell if your wife or your dog likes you best is to lock them both in the trunk of your car for an hour. Later when you open the trunk, take note of which one is glad to see you.

Or see which one bites you!!

reminds me of this one...

A mild mannered man was tired of his wife always bossing him around, so he went to a psychiatrist. The doctor told him he had to develop self-esteem. The doctor gave him a booklet on assertiveness training, which he read on the way home.

When he walked through the door and his wife came to greet him, he told her, "From now on I'm the man of this house and my word is law. When I come home from work, I want my dinner on the table. Now go upstairs and lay me some clothes on the bed, because I'm going out with the boys tonight. Then draw my bath. When I get out of the tub, guess who's going to dress me and comb my hair?"

"The undertaker," she replied.

I have mixed feelings about it. Not the wives & gf....lol - funny stuff.

I think you do have to be in good physical shape even if playing solo. And the vast majority of the competition is going to be much younger so you have to choose your spots of best opportunity. Band/Duo/Trio whatever drama can suck but solo gets boring pretty quick for some folks - always two sides to the pancake.

StreetJelly - that's JosieC (aka Joanne) mentioned above who's on there - For this Josie,(Sundance) the having to constantly read and react to the chat seemed like it would be a huge distraction. That's a whole different deal than being in the same room with a real live audience where you can see and feel real energy without having to either read chat and play at the same time or stop, read and talk to the chat board after every song.

I find it distracting when I'm trying to watch somebody on there. Back when I had more time to watch which I rarely do now because I'm too busy - I've seen so much chatter going on at times during a song that I've wondered who's really paying attention to the performer. Just my two cents as an observer. But I suppose the other side of it in not having to leave the house makes up for it and maybe I'll catch another performance someday if the stars align and I'm home and available when someone I like is on. <grin>

Josie

I play lot's of gigs, but I'm not a solo artist - I play in groups - I started this gig when I was 50 or 51 - I'd never played in this kind of setting before.

My most regular gig is with a bunch of other "old farts" (I'm the youngest by nearly 20 years ). We jam at a beach in front of the surf club every Wednesday morning - donations go to the surf club and the cafe feeds and waters us at lunch time.

Great views, great and forgiving audience and a fantastic vista

This is an iphone recording, not our regular drummer or bass player (this bass player usually plays sax and is in his late 80's), the piano player is also in his 80's, trumpeter is late 60's - not sure about the rest but they're all older - I make no claims to fame (I'm on the 'bone and this is definitely not my best improv. though I am getting better, slo-oo-oo-ly... ) - we're just havin' fun.

It might not be the greatest, but you're NEVER too old to have fun, and we have a regular audience of around 80 to 100 every Wednesday morning



This pool is 50m from where we play:


Part of our regular audience, gotta watch 'em, they'll steal food out of your hand, flying between your hand and your face!!!

Hi Lawrie

That looks awesome. What fun. Can I come and live there and play music and learn to surf?

Absolutely! It's a lovely part of the world, you'd love it

You guys are rippin' Lawrie!

Too old? It takes a long time to get that good!


Regards,


Bob

Ahh, bob, Maaate... You are my friend forever

I never played any improv at all until I was in my late 40's - if I didn't have a chart in front of me I had no idea at all! Then I did a couple of terms at the local conservatorium trying to learn the basics of Jazz improvisation - we covered basic harmonisation and the blues scale - that got me started - maybe one day I'll be able to say I'm starting to "get it" but in the meantime I'm gonna spend the rest of my life learning how

You couldn't pick a nicer spot to play either. Oz is on my bucket list, but my old bucket's getting pretty full.

+1 - if I have any more fun today than the 4 minutes of that, I've had a pretty good day

Bruce

Come on down - I'm sure we could find a bed somewhere, might be on the lounge though

Hey Bruce - Be jealous mate, Wednesday mornings usually go for about 2 1/2 hours

I think this might answser the OP's question - no, you're NEVER too old to start playin' gigs

Being in a band is like being married without the sex. You have the intimate family relationship without the intimate contact.

In the bands that I've been in that have had female members, the rule was "No hanky panky - hands off" to both. It's the only way that will work. Even if the members are homosexual, the same rule should apply.

In the two bands that I was in with female members, the guys ended up being like big brothers to the girls and tried to protect them (sometimes a bit too much).

As far as wives are concerned, the first time a wife interferes, even if it's just a little bit, it's time for a band meeting and to nip that in the bud. In the bands I've been in, all wife (or other non-band partner), suggestions can be made to the band member they are mated with, in private, and if the suggestion is worthy, the band member can bring it up at a band meeting or rehearsal.

There are a lot of pitfalls and a lot of joy to being in a full band, and to avoid the problems the rules should be set out and agreed upon up front. And when a problem occurs, it should be nipped in the bud and not let go to extremes.

Of course, great tact is involved in bringing up problems to the floor as you don't want to start a shouting match.

I played in a road band for a few years, the one that almost got signed to Motown, and the rules were set up front by a more experienced member of the group who confronted those problems before. During the years we were together, two of us got married, and the wives were never a problem. Neither was the female member of the band. What eventually broke the band up was when Motown quit talking to us because our lawyers expected us to actually get a piece of the potential profits instead of working for what would amount to union scale.

I've been in other bands that make Internet flame wars seem like a child's game in comparison. Those are the bands I left.

If you plan to join a band, the think you need to remember is, what we do is called playing music. It should be serious fun, but if it isn't fun and playful, it's not worth it.

Insights and incites by Notes

Lawrie,

as the camera panned around, I half expected to see Obi Wan and Han Solo at a table in the corner negotiating business arrangements on the milennium falcon...

on a more serious note, y'all sound awesome! Thanks for adding your favorable 2 cents to the original question!

Lawrie, Love the vid'...having fun is what it's all about. Thanks for posting - I could almost smell the surf and hear the waves crash.

Hi Pat,
some of the people that come I could almost agree about Obi Wan and Han

Thanks for the lovely compliment about our playing too. Jack, on the bass, has been playing for so long I think he knows every tune that's ever been written! Vince, clarinet (and sax) has played for a very long time too - I've learned a lot just from litening to these two guys.

Our normal bass player, Ian, also plays a bunch of other instruments, including a button accordeon that he sometimes brings. "La Vie en Rose" never sounded so good

Rob, usual drummer (not in the vid), played in the RAN for decades. He knows 'em all too and has a great feel, but he sure can be a grumpy old b@stard

Peter on the guitar - I actually don't know a lot about him, but he's pretty good too.

Lorant on the piano - he's been around so long I think he WROTE all the tunes Jack knows He plays a mean guitar too.

These guys were great for me to get a start with.

Brian, trumpet, is a little like me - really just getting started at improv but I must say, he's improving quickly - that vid is getting on now and he has clearly been putting in work since it was taken.

============
Hi Sonny Ray,
the venue is really good - where we play you don't normally hear the surf, we're right on the beach but about 7 or 8 metres above it so the sound seems to dissipate - it's not normally heavy surf anyway.

The beach is called Macmasters Beach and is on the NSW Central Coast. Takes me about 20 minutes to drive there from where I live.

===============
Hey Musiclover,
I'd like to mention that there is an enormous difference playing to a live audience than any other environment - you get feedback from the crowd.

Sometimes it's really mild and you think "Nope, I haven't connected" and other times they clap and cheer, or better still, get up and dance (that's my favourite!). The interaction between you and them can really change how a gig goes down - every one is different.

A good crowd can really inspire your playing and you come up with lines you had no idea were in you, other crowds can make you feel like the sound is just "dribbling down your chin"

I encourage you to get out there. If you're most comfortable as a solo artist, find a quiet spot for a start and go busking. If you have a couple of mates you could go out with to play you'll gain courage from the company. It's the first time or 2 that take a little effort to get over the nerves, after that it's pure enjoyment!

'Ave a go mate!

Wow Lawrie, you guys sound great and look like you're having a blast doing it! Sounded like you came right off Bourbon Street. And what a heavenly spot to play in.


Josie

Wow Josie,
"Bourbon Street": high praise indeed. You know can now do no wrong don't you

If you ever come to Oz, drop in and you can do some real "Sun Dancing" at what has to be one of the best spots I've seen.

One of my favorite blues singers, Alberta Hunter, returned to the live stage at age 80.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Hunter#1970s

Lots of videos on Youtube.

I have but one comment, "You ain't too old - you all sound great."

Notes