This is a friendly reminder not directed to any specific person. It's about what FJ calls "dumping" and that describes the practice pretty well. Many who do it probably won't even read this but on the off chance here goes.

If you're going to post on the Users Showcase then listen and comment on someone else's song too.

It reeks of ego and rudeness to expect other people to give their time listening and commenting on your songs when you don't bother. We ALL are busy. We ALL want feedback on our posts. What if everyone on here posted our songs without listening and commenting on anyone else's..... really.......think about that.

Nobody expects anyone to listen and comment on every single song that's posted.

But it's not hard or too time consuming to say, I really enjoyed this or I like that track you used or how'd you get that sound .....on one or two songs.

On other forums they actually tell you to listen and comment on three other songs BEFORE you post one of yours. We don't have any such rule here. It's still common courtesy.

At the moment I don't have a new song posted so this is not about me - this is about manners.

So I'm just saying. Do for others on the users showcase what you want them doing for you.

If you are ready to post then you should also be ready to listen and comment on at least SOMETHING you hear posted by someone other than yourself.


Josie

Mom, zat you again?

My cyber daughter,

I'm guilty, as charged. I listen to a lot of people but you've made me painfully aware that I'm in a rut and not broadening my musical horizons by listening to fresh, new talent. I always read your posts and give an ear squint to your wonderful tunes but I may not comment, assuming that you know how highly I place you in me wee Irish 'art, me wee colleen.

To assume anything is like a blindfolded elephant waltzing through yer basic minefield, not a great idea. There are several like yourself whom I try never to miss "but time and unforeseen circumstance befall us all!" and "The best laid plans of mice and men do ofttimes go astray!"

Your point was well-stated and well taken, I will do better hence.

(Exit stage left)

and there are those of us who err in the other direction, by making comments on other peoples' songs while never posting anything of our own that might draw criticism.

Guilty as charged.

(exit stage right)

Lately I am guilty as charged also. Life has been getting in the way of listening and music in general so when I get a chance I make music. After a couple of days I hope to be able to spend more time listening. I hope!

Exiting? Well left is taken and right is taken to I guess I will just jump into the orchestra pit!

Josie,

Point well made.

Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself is my phrase.

Totally irrelevant in my mind, Pat. Us posters appreciate comments/ criticisms from anybody.

Also may I add that it would also be nice for all the posters to list the RT's. RealDrums, super MIDI used etc, as in the rules rather than say for example "all BIAB". In my mind this is an advanced way to audition all the tracks and hear them in use.

Good post, Josie.

COME BACK ON STAGE Don and Pat. Grab my hand Mario!, I'll help you clamber out of the pit!!!

Alyn

Yes, that fits me in these times. I don't post often, but normally I do review at least those who comment. I got distracted as of late, fighting to keep a job to make a living. So, I'm more than just a bit distracted. I'll get back on track eventually.

My apologies to everyone who might feel neglected due to my lack of returning the favor.

This turned into a rather friendly and amusing exchange of clever retorts.
See what kind of good trouble you stirred up, Josie?

No wonder we all love you!

Now if y'all will excuse me, I have to go make some song comments before Josie dispatches the forum gestapo on me...

Well, here's my unofficial, off the record, opinion.

There's the common thought that one should participate in the forums giving comments and kudos where appropriate if one is posting songs and asking for the same.... and I certainly try my best to do that.

But at the same time. I don't think it's necessary, or even warranted, to comment on every song that gets posted. Honestly, some songs just stump me.


( everything else I wrote was deleted since keeping my mouth shut is a skill I'm trying to work on.... )

Those are probably mine. I confuse myself sometimes.

LOL! You guys are funny.

The thought just crossed my mind that maybe some people just post a song in order to enter the competition to win a free band in a box at the end of the year, and maybe they don't care a hoot whether anyone comments or not, as long as someone at PG music notices.

Some people do tend to stick on one particular forum, and will probably open the PG forums first thing in the morning and check back frequently throughout the day, whereas other due to time restraints don't have that luxury.

To be honest if I posted a song in the showcase and some one commented I would thank them,and if no one commented, well that's fine too by me, but as its an open forum and I have a lot of personal issues to attend to I certainly don't think I have to listen to a lot of songs and give kudos in return, sounds too much like a little clique thing to me.

The old saying may well apply here.

Before you judge anyone try walking a day in their shoes.

Martin57

part one: interesting..... but nope.... I post songs because I think other might enjoy the some and perhaps find some inspiration to do something similar or perhaps just do something in their own way. If PG decides to bless me with a gift, that's icing on the cake.

part two: Cliques? .... who cares? Like I said and you did too, Post because you have a song and care less whether someone comments or not. Be involved and don't worry about what you think might be....

I do occasionally have the time to check in throughout the day....other days not even once .... and I try to be attentive to thank each and every person who does take the time to comment on the song. It's not a clique thing to thank someone for commenting. It's courtesy.


EDIT: and...in addition.... one should also try to be involved and help out in other forums here. Don't just hang out in the User Forum..... there's people asking for assistance and posing questions and coming up with interesting solutions to problems in the other forums as well.... be active there in this community.

Good points Guitarhacker and you are right a person should hang out in other forums too and not be posting only on the showcase forum.

I haven't a clue who FJ is as stated by Sundance but when she states that

"It's about what FJ calls "dumping" and that describes the practice pretty well. Many who do it probably won't even read this but on the off chance here goes.

If you're going to post on the Users Showcase then listen and comment on someone else's song too.

It reeks of ego and rudeness to expect other people to give their time listening and commenting on your songs when you don't bother. We ALL are busy. We ALL want feedback on our posts. What if everyone on here posted our songs without listening and commenting on anyone else's..... really.......think about that."
-------------------------------------------------------

When I see a song in the showcase forum (when I do have the time to visit) the thought never occurred to me that, that person might be "Dumping" the song there, Seems there is a lot of stuff going on in the forums that I must be too naive to cop onto.

Martin57

@MikeK.

Hey Mike, I'm praying for ya, I know how that situation feels. Hang in there.


@Martin57

Just post to win a prize without giving a flip. We could all do that but I don't think most do. Most want to be heard imo.

Me-Judging? Na. Everybody I know has too many problems - me included. I post on most of the forums here so most of the guys have known me a long time and know me better than that. But they do like to tease me and that's quite alright because most of them have helped me more than once and I wouldn't trade a one of 'em.

LIke I said, nobody expects anyone to listen and comment on every song.

Clique - I don't think so but that can be the perception when fewer people participate - I'm advocating more participation.

FJ is Floyd Jane.

BTW, Thanks for bringing up Walk A Mile In My Shoes, Bob and I have a great cover of that on iTunes and Amazon or stream it on Spotify and iTunes Radio. (Sorry, but I couldn't resist the natural seg there for some shameless self promotion. )

Josie

Sundance,

I am sure you are a really lovely person and no doubt everyone on this forum loves you, but creating certain rules (other than the PGmusic rules) or things that may be perceived as conditions for posting on the showcase in my opinion is not a good idea, or to label someone a "dumper" is not right either.

For example say you have a newbie to PGmusic products who has just read your initial post. He/she might have a home situation with either a disabled child or partner and maybe they can only do a little recording late at night, they have very little free time to either browse the PGmusic forums let alone the User showcase.

After reading your initial post would they feel comfortable about posting a song in the user showcase or would that put them off in any way? My personal opinion is that it would. (Others may differ) No one wants to be given a label such as a "Dumper"

I work as a therapist and I see a lot of adults who were bullied either as children or at work as adults and in my opinion to start to label people who have done you no harm is the wrong thing to do, and the effects can last a lifetime.

I don't think it’s in the spirit of PGmusics products to try to lay down further conditions other than the guidelines that Pgmusic has given us.

Martin57

Martin57,

My best friend is a paraplegic who raised and homeschooled her two disabled children. I give people a little more credit for common sense and courtesy regardless of their situation. So I do differ on my suggestion being off putting to a newbie.

At this point, I think we're getting off into semantics and blowing this out of proportion. I'm not trying to throw the baby out with the bath water by suggesting that people listen and comment on at least one song. It's five minutes. And much less scary than posting your own song.

After listening and commenting on hundreds of other people's songs. Including the tons of newbies I have encouraged. My POV is certainly not going to be the same as yours.

I agree to disagree. This is my final post to you on this subject.

I'm sure you are a wonderul caring therapist. Good luck to you and your patients.


Josie

I've been in other forums where, in order to post a song, you had to comment on at least 5 other songs first.

And the forum software computer server kept a count and kept track and that formula.....comment on 5 to post one was ongoing.

Many of the comments were of this kind: "good song" or "sounds good" or "I like it" ...

The occasional comment got a bit deeper but many were two or three words to get that post count in order to post the next song.

FWIW a few random thoughts:

- I try to listen to everything that is posted. I like BIAB and greatly appreciate the musical exploration it has allowed Janice and myself. Listening to what other folks do supports this approach. I have some great playlists made up of many members' contributions.

- I comment on the great percentage of what I listen to. If the genre is really not one I'm particularly familiar with I'll try to listen closely to, for example, the mix. Meaning, I try to find things to mention that are somewhat in my wheelhouse. One issue I struggle with is off key vocals. I'm a long time musician (not particularly accomplished chop wise) but I do have a good ear. I figure if singers are unaware of their pitch issues there's not much reason to join the fray - so I don't If for this or other reasons I simply don't like a song I just don't respond.

- The folks who post 4 or 5 songs at once could be considered dumpers. They bury active threads and deny themselves the thoughtful feedback they would get with a single post. I do find that annoying but it's themselves they are hurting.

- I've been a board admin and am currently a mod on a history related forum. From this experience I strongly feel that PG Music's user showcase is a great community and an overall great place to spend some time. The mods/admins do a fine job.

- And, rules or not, I do think that folks who post songs regularly and rarely respond to others would be better received if they offered their opinions. Not to join a clique or to take a quid pro quo approach....but simply to respect individuals who have taken time to listen and comment on their songs.

Pardon the ole phart ramble and no offense intended to anyone.

Bud

@Josie: thank you so much, you are very kind indeed!!!

I'll admit up front I'm a binge listener. I'll go for awhile and not listen to much of anything (radio, Spotify, SoundCloud, UserShowcase or otherwise). One day I'll be in a listening mood and will listen to everything I can!

When I do listen the UserShowcase is normally where I start. I appreciate the variety, skill and just plain inspiration the showcase provides.

When I listen, I comment. To me it's just common courtesy. As others have mentioned, I try to provide encouragement, especially to newcomers or infrequent poster, and positive feedback. In some cases I've been known to send a private message.

Many posters create songs I consider as radio ready, of commercial quality or at almost that high level of quality. In SOME of those cases (it somewhat depends on what type of feedback I assume the poster wants to receive) I will listen multiple times and diplomatically, I hope, provide critical feedback.

My issues are in dertermining when a poster is seeking critical analysis or what type of analysis is appropriate to the poster. Another is sometimes I'll hear something I think maybe useful to me such as use of an effect or a particular riff and I'll ask about it and either not receive a response or receive a "didn't answer the question" general purpose response.

I'm just at the beginning of my Biab / music production journey and consider the UserShowcase postings to be not only inspirational but to also be a learning tool, just like many of the other forum threads.

Mac, how I miss his presence in the forum. He didn't post many songs on the UserShowcase but his analysis of other posts were normally spot on. He acknowledged the good and told step-by-step how to make the bad or normal better. There are some others like that but too few in my opinion.

Thanks for saying it. I miss his presence too.