Hi all,

I love all instruments - I want to play them all, but I've at least had enough focus on guitar to feel reasonably proficient (I can play most common chords, learn songs, learn solos, and even solo over some common scales - pentatonic, major, minor).

But I LOVE noodling around with other instruments - and have lately been looking for some new 'noodling' instruments. Also - a big hobby of mine is equipping my home studio for my musical friends.

All that said - I've been thinking of adding either a mandolin, or a banjo, or both to my collection.

Has anyone gone from guitar to either banjo or mandolin ? If so, did you
1.) purchase an instrument, keep it, and are glad you did, because you still noodle with it, or
2.) purchase it - realize how 'different' it is than guitar - and either let it sit in it's case for years or resell it.

Looking forward to hearing your experiences on this topic.

....and HAPPY HOLIDAY.

Regards,
Joe V.

If you're primarily a finger picking guitarist then I'd recommend the banjo. If you're a flatpicker, go with the mandolin.

Homespun Tapes has lots of good instruction for both.

I have always played all three. Before you start on banjo, you have to know which of the two major styles you want to play: clawhammer or Scruggs style. The two are very different in technique, and the instruments are built differently. Try looking up both in Youtube. Then we can talk on the phone if you want to know more.

Being a guitarist and keyboardist since my teens.... I decided to pick up a mandolin.

I found one for a really good price, got it and set about learning how to play it. It's certainly different.... strings are tuned differently, frets are smaller.... but hey, it's got strings and I can deal with that.

If you browse my tunes, you can hear me playing it. Christmas Without you...... currently on the user showcase somewhere...page 1 or 2.... would be a good one to listen to.

To me, a mandolin is a sweet sounding instrument.....and a banjo is handy because it can double as a hammer in a pinch.

Joe, do you have a preference for the sound of the instrument? If so, then choose the one you like better!

I have a mandolin and several ukuleles and while I enjoy them a lot I find it harder to get quality sound from them than from guitar or banjo. And the small size also can make them hard to play well if you have large hands.

Now the banjo, on the other hand, well I'll never ever be without one! Someone mentioned clawhammer and Scruggs (which both require a 5-string banjo BTW) but those are not the only ways to play a banjo! I am a decent clawhammer player and a horrible Scruggs style player but a couple of years ago I started fingerpicking (without picks) my banjo. I have several patterns I use and all you need to do to start is 1) learn some chords and 2) learn one or two basic fingerpicking patterns!

And because a banjo has a longer neck as compared to a mando, you can capo to match your singing voice and use it as a nice accompaniment instrument for acoustic sets. Whenever I play solo acoustic I always bring the guitar and the banjo. Let's me mix it up a little!

Oh and another way to play banjo is to strum it with your fingers or a plectrum. Get a New Orleans sound going even on your 5-string banjo! I have a song I wrote last year that uses fingerpicked banjo panned left and a strummed banjo panned right and it makes for a very nice combination!

Oh and one other option is to play your banjo like you would a guitar using a plectrum and picking melodies.

If you do not have a banjo yet I recommend a Deering Goodtime open back 5-string banjo for about $350! I bought mine a couple years ago and have been just thrilled with how good it sounds and how easy it is to play! And just in case you are wondering whether this banjo would be good enough for pro use check out Mean Mary burning hers up! http://youtu.be/ofAQtE7zHe0

Joe:

If you don't have the time or inclination to learn a "new" instrument, you can get a 6 string banjo that's tuned like a guitar.

My only caution there would be, don't get a cheap (under $200) as they can sound rather "tinny". But I was at a Jam Session recently where a lady had a very nice one and it sounded great, and she didn't have to learn new fingerings as she already played guitar.

Another Jam Session (I'm getting addicted <grin>). A guy bought an old, used, but quality 4 string banjo, re-strung it like the DGBE stings on a guitar. You couldn't tell it wasn't a "real" regularly-strung 4 stringer.

Good luck!
LLOYD S

I agree with John3. The sound of the instrument that appeals to you the most should be the deciding factor. They both relate in some manner to the guitar, but that really shouldn’t be a major consideration.

For example, a 5 string banjo has the middle 3 strings tuned the same as a guitar. D-G-B. A mandolin has a backward tuning of the lower four strings of a guitar. E-A-D-G on a guitar vs. G-D-A-E on a mandolin.

I’ve never found either piece of information particularly helpful in playing either instrument.

I play guitar, mandolin and banjo in descending levels of competence. The style of banjo playing that has always interested me the most is the 3 finger picking style vs. clawhammer. To get even decent at that style you have to master the alternating thumb, forward roll and backward roll until they’re second nature without even thinking about it.

That’s a lot harder to do than it sounds. It takes incessant drills for months on end.

Whichever one you choose, don’t listen to anyone that tells you to retune the instrument to more approximate the guitar. If you’re going to tackle a new instrument, do it in the proper tuning or leave it alone.

I’d also advise against the 6 string banjo tuned like a guitar. It’s not a guitar and it’s not a banjo and it’s annoying when someone shows up with one at a jam session. It’s a novelty instrument that’s only appropriate for one out of fifty songs.

If you’re comfortable with a flatpick, go with a mandolin. You don’t have to very good to be able to play some decent sounding music.

With 3 finger style banjo, you have to be pretty damn good to even be tolerated in a jam session. They’re too loud and obnoxious unless you can play them well.

If you can play them at an advanced level, they’re fantastic. If you’re not able to play them at an advanced level, do everyone a favor and leave them at home.

Why do you think there are so many banjo jokes?

Paddle Faster...

Well - I have a bartering proposition for all of you 2nd instrument (from guitar) banjo/mandolin players that might be interested in bartering some time with me.

If there is something I can teach you, I offer 15 to 20 minutes of my time for 15 to 20 minutes of yours.

The idea of finding some people to barter Skype time with where both have something they're motivated to learn from each other has long been a goal of mine, maybe this can be an opening.

BTW - if there are any websites specifically for this, I'd love to know about them. Usually, when I find some people where we have at least ONE think in common - an initial conversations leads us to find several other things.

If you're interested in 'testing the waters' over Skype to see if we can find some mutually beneficial topics - there's no obligations ! I believe I've only skyped with one person on PG so far - my friend and co-personality type - Pat Marr. But I recognize many of your names on this thread. PM me with your Skype address (or other Video Conferencing address) if interested.

I know some people are video shy - but if you give it a try, I think you'll love it and come to know the power and fun of it.

Regards, and thanks for all of your informative comments.

And BTW - my personality is such that if I do some banjo - I'll dapple with ALL the playing styles. That's just my noodling personality.

Joe,

another thing to add is resist the urge to go cheap so you can have both right away. For years I had a cheap banjo and mandolin, and every time I picked either one up it was more discouraging than enjoyable.

When I finally got playable instruments it made a big difference in terms of playability and enjoyment.

For example, I started out with the acoustic-electric teardrop mandolin by Fender that you see everywhere. I could never get good intonation out of that instrument. I asked BobCFlatpicker for a recommendation, and he suggested THE LOAR F-style mando... (I forget the model #) so I took his advice and bought one. I've been very happy with it (Thanks Bob!)

For the price its a very well made instrument, good enough to warrant upgrading hardware later to make it even better.

I had read great reviews about the Recording King banjos - and almost picked up a used RK-20 for $300 (new $420 on sale if you look on Amazon or MF at the right time, else $500)- but then, I'd really like a used RK-35 from what I've read, which seems the best for the price - but that's a pretty steep price for a 'noodler' ($1200 new). I always buy used.

Joe,

Something you may want to keep in mind on the banjo is that most banjos are made for 3 finger picking style. They have metal pots and a back on them. While you can play claw hammer style on them, the sound is more harsh than you would typically want.

Banjos that are made specifically for claw hammer usually have wooden pots and an open back.

This video may help.

"How to Choose a Banjo Style and a Banjo"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHCQHlZJom0

Interesting video; but he should have shown the difference. He showed fingerpicking on one banjo and clawhammer on the other. It would have been nice to hear the other style on each banjo also. Still - an interesting video.

Listen to Bob! If you plan to "noodle" at home around other folks, I'd recommend an open-back banjo and a flannel shirt (to absorb lots of the sound)! A banjo with a resonator gets pretty loud! My Deering Goodtime is pretty loud even though it is open-back; I play fingerpicked and clawhammer and get plenty of volume out of it. Plus, with the resonator, your banjo doubles in weight! BUT, if you are gonna play with a bluegrass band you'd prolly want the banjo with the resonator so you'll be loud enough.

when I got my first banjo years and years ago I learned several Scruggs style songs but never got really good and gave it up for 30 years! Then caught the bug again a few years back and started "noodling" with clawhammer technique. I ended up taking a few lessons and bought Ken Perlman's book and DVD and I highly recommend it! I also bought Michael J. Miles books which I recommend as well.

But for just starting out you could do a lot worse than these videos on YouTube,

http://youtu.be/lKK_n4Ac0Bk?list=PLD8B12621CCAB1A11

http://youtu.be/qOYAd0fZiDM?list=PLD8B12621CCAB1A11

http://youtu.be/qpyMA3jMmVA?list=PLD8B12621CCAB1A11

Hi Joe,
I'm a half reasonable keyboard player, but have always wanted to play bluegrass banjo. I got a guitar for Christmas when I was about 11 yr years old, had a few lessons (I was also havind piano & accordion lessons at the same time, so the guitar had to go.) Basically I sucked. I could play lead, but could not play chords, particularly barre chords. So I gave it away.

Move ahead 20 years and I decided I wanted to learn bluegrass banjo. I bough a mid-priced banjo and every book & record I could find. I practised my butt off, but after 10 years, I sucked. Stringed instruments are not for me.

Move on a few more years, and enter BIAB.
Well, now I "play" guitar like Brent Mason, and thanks to the banjo music instruction books that I accumulated, Earl Scruggs, eat you heart out (God rest your soul) thanks to being able to enter music note by note.

I love BIAB, and it's enabled me to play music that I could only dream about.

Sorry for the rant.
Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays to all.

Keith - your music history sounds a little like mine - I'd love to barter some of my time to help you with guitar accompaniment, for some of yours to help me learn more about keyboard and banjo.

Its true that they are more styles that just the two I mentioned. Clawhammer and its variants, and 3-finger, plus its variants, are the main groups of styles.

You may be able to get a pleasant sound by using guitar fingerpicking technique on a banjo, but its not really banjo playing. Using a pick on a five-string is so wrong I cannot even begin to explain. A six string guitar-banjo is neither.

Its easy to do some real investigation by looking at youtubes. Please dont be in a hurry.

I already offered to talk further over phone or Skype or whatver ya got.

Granpa jones is on high on my list of most admired clawhamnmer players:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQBNBbiTUY8

(also known as frailing, framing, etc)

And don't forget Bill Keith's "melodic banjo style" Look him up on YouTube.

Joe, looks like most are weighing in on Banjo. I borrow a Mandolin now and then and I always use this:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/two.html

You can also tune the mandolin to 'guitar' tuning (bottom 4 strings or top 4 strings) and go to town.

I fully realize that both of these methods are cheating in a way, but I'm usually just playing very simple stuff in a much larger band when I'm borrowing the two different mandolins that I do borrow.

Also, don't be surprised if you need to place the bridge somewhere other than where it's at when you get the mando. One of those that I borrowed from a friend is a nice Tacoma model, and my friend didn't play it because he said the intonation was bad - which it was upon receipt. I played around with the placement of the bridge and found it was off by about 1/8" and after moving it, had no issues with intonation.

Banjo players prolly told Scruggs his new style was "not really banjo playing" too! Just ignore such nonsense Joe! If you are playing and it is a banjo that's banjo playing!

That’s the worst advice you can ever give to anyone tackling a new instrument. You’re essentially saying “don’t bother actually learning to play your new instrument. Cheat, so you can fool non-musicians into thinking you can you can play your new instrument”.

How hard is it to learn new chord shapes?! Not hard at all.

Following that advice also means you can’t avail yourself of the tons of TAB and sheet music written for mandolin. It would also mean you can’t actually play your new instrument.

It blows my mind every time I hear such horrible advice. Why go through the expense and time of getting a new instrument if you’re not actually going to even try to learn to play it?

Hey Bob - that may have come across as a little 'harsh' - not they I don't agree with your position. Live and let live. I'm mature enough to understand why these guys are saying not to be over-concerned with 'the right way to do it' - they just want to say 'if you enjoy it - then go ahead and use your guitar tuning'.

But I actually wholeheartedly agree that someone who wants to learn and understand about the true capability and intent of the instrument should go with the standard Banjo tunings. They far more lend themselves to the actual music that inspired me to want to buy a Banjo.

Peace (and tolerance) to all : )

Joe,



It was meant to be harsh. That advice has screwed up a lot of people who pick up a new instrument.

It's harder for a person to actually learn to play the instrument after they've imprinted a way to cheat in their mind.

I was given a cheap, open back banjo a while ago and it is still the one I still use. I got a book/cd from Tony Trishka of fairly simple tunes and started learning the more "scruggs" style. I never really got any good at it -- it was before I got into recording and I never played with anyone.

Then I lost one of the finger picks and now when I play banjo, I get the banjo chord sheet out and just sort of flail away with my fingers (ha, ha). Probably mostly guitar style fingerpicking, though. I think the best bet would to be try and learn the 3-finger scruggs style (open back is fine for that, too). It is a good place to start. Actually though, I think you have to use what you know and just do it -- do you really want to spend two or three years becoming a proficient bluegrass picker? Here is me stumbling along on banjo: https://soundcloud.com/kevin-emmrich/shout-it-out

A ukulele is always a good idea for a new instrument, too. ... and why not, here is me on my daughter's uke -- I have played it maybe three times: https://soundcloud.com/kevin-emmrich/slightly-out-of-phase . Again, I just get the uke chord chart out and do the best I can.

Edit: Of course then there is Scott Avett of the Avett Brothers. He started out with the 3 finger scruggs style, but now is sort of a hybrid player and mostly does stuff in support of the song. Here is a good example: Laundry Room. He is always tuning that dang thing, though!

And there is plectrum banjo and it's shorter neck companion tenor banjo.

Eddie Peabody was a master of the plectrum banjo:
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=eddie%20peabody&qs=n&form=QBVR&pq=eddie%20peabody&sc=1-13&sp=-1&sk=

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>>>...You’re essentially saying “don’t bother actually learning to play your new instrument. Cheat, so you can fool non-musicians into thinking you can you can play your new instrument”....>>>

I strongly agree with Bob here. It is tempting to see only the similarities between guitar, mandolin and banjo. They all have strings and frets and bodies, right? If that's all you see, then you are missing big differences in method and application. Consider that the banjo comes from africa, the guitar from Spain and the mandolin from Italy. If you miss the characteristics that make them different, you miss a lot.

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So back to Joe V, the original poster. (Hi Joe!)

Just what do you mean when you say 'noodle'?

As the person who has supposedly given the worst advice in this thread, I would also like to know what 'noodle' means, as I took it to mean something like: Not really serious about it, really would like to know if I like the sound and the size of frets, etc.

For this meaning, I stand behind my suggestion 100%. For the record, it is exactly what I did to fill in with a couple of mandolin parts in a larger band with about 1 week of exposure.

After that, I spent more time with the instrument that I was borrowing from Karl and tuned it the proper way and learned the 'normal' way to tune the instrument.

I also tune my acoustic and classical guitars in alternate tunings to achieve a sound that I normally can't get but that hasn't stopped me from learning the 'proper' tunings.

I always find such horror at suggestions like mine on this this particular company's forum quite humorous.

Had the word 'noodle' not appeared in Joe's post, I would not have made my suggestion.

Scott,

I see the appropriateness of an answer much the same way as you.

If the tropic was HOW TO LEARN TO PLAY MANDOLIN CORRECTLY then tuning one like a guitar would be a very bad way to reach the stated goal.

On the other hand, if the topic was HOW TO QUICKLY PLAY A MANDOLIN PART INTO A SONG, then doing so might be the simplest and most practical way to meet that goal.

Ultimately, its up to Joe to decide which of the responses got closest to answering the question he intended to ask.