Question about a cover song that I created with help from a friend with my BIAB...

If anyone can answer a question though I would appreciate it. When I first uploaded this cover there where no third party rights on it, but suddenly today there was by a media publishing group called "Reservoir Media" that claimed the monetization on it. Now, the question that I would like answered is this. since I created my own music for this song with BIAB, can this group monetize my video like that? I did not use a karaoke, I used a version that I and a friend of mine created. I.E. he did the chord structure, and I re-arranged it to my liking. Last week Atlantic Record's just released this song, and I created a cover of it. I recorded it in my studio, mixed it and posted it on YouTube, now is this legal for them to collect the monetization on this video that "I" created? it is my own version of "Adore" from "Jasmine Thompson" I specifically created a rock version because this is the kind of music that I enjoy. She has more of a pop or R&B version of it that was recorded. I created my own version because there where no backgrounds or "Karaoke Versions of it". So, it this legal for them to do or not? grated it is their song, but it is my media that I created with BIAB for my own version. Any answers would be appreciated, thanks in advance!!!!

My limited understanding of YouTube and copyright says, Yes, it is legal for them to do this. If your version is recognizable as their song, the composer or publisher could have had your video taken down. Instead, they chose to monetize it.

I could be wrong. I don't record covers.

I'm not familiar with the youtube rules and monitization, However.......a few questions that I believe do apply......

Did you BUY the license for the song or did you simply record it and publish it to the web illegally?

Illegally is a strong word, but it you didn't obtain and pay for the rights to license the song.... that's exactly what it became when you posted it. They can sue you if they wish. "They" being the copyright owners or their legal representatives.

If you did get the license, you need to go back and read the fine print. Did the license give you the exclusive right to monitize it or was that specifically granted to others in the contract? All of your rights are spelled out in the contract.

These are all questions and answers you need to address..... and quickly before a lawyer contacts you with a copyright infringement lawsuit notice to appear in court.


EDIT: none of my videos on youtube have been monitized illegally because I own the copyrights.

I agree with Herb. Even though you created your own unique version, it is a cover of someone else's song and you must have their permission to use it.

This earlier thread will give you additional insight how to how this process came about on YouTube.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=300581#Post300581

Maybe you could contact Atlantic Records and ask them.


http://www.atlanticrecords.com

Of course, your best bet is to contact a lawyer who is versed in copyright law.

It is my understanding that the song is copyrighted the moment is is written and the author owns the copyright.

Registering the copyright takes time, the government is not speedy on this (I know from experience) but even though it may not be registered yet, the creator still owns the copyright. Registering it does give the owner more legal clout though.

In any case, the song is the property of the copyright owner, and you are not allowed to use it in any way, shape or form without the consent of the copyright holder. There are some exceptions in the "Fair Use" sections, but that is full of legalese and before claiming that, you need a lawyer.

If the copyright holder wants to grant you free use (be sure it's in writing if he/she does), charge you, deny you or anything else, it is his/her intellectual property and they have all rights reserved.

I'm not a lawyer, and am not giving legal advice here. I own registered copyrights, and have consulted lawyers. This is my interpretation of the advice they gave me, and it is not intended to be legal advice.

In other words, if you disagree with the owner of the copyright, you can either comply or get a lawyer to find out if the owner is justified or not.

Sorry.

Insights and incites by Notes

If you're in your own four walls you may cover anything you want for free. As soon as it leaves your own four walls and goes public, the owners of rights are entitled to receive monetary compensation.

I'm not quite sure about all the necessary procedures in the states. Here in Germany it is simple. You record a cover version, i. e. melody and lyrics remain as intended by the author(s) regardless of the key you record it in, GEMA (our equivalent for BMI/ASCAP/SESAC) has a contraction duty and therefore must sell you the license. If you're doing a different arrangement, examples include change of lyrics, repetition or omition of melody parts, you must gain the license from the authors or the respective holder of rights, they may or may not want to charge a fee.

If you have obtained the rights to re-arrange the song, you might notify your PRO (if your associated with one) and receive remuneration if your version is performed in public. Of course, they only can pay royalties if thy learn that your version has been performed. That is why we in Germany have to issue playlists to GEMA after each public perfomance.


Edit: "Notes" was a bit faster submitting his answer... but esentially we don't differ.

So, you are trying to "monetize" a song you don't own the rights to, that you "created", and you're complaining about someone else jumping your claim?

Priceless.



Original Release Date: June 12, 2015
Release Date: June 12, 2015
Label: Atlantic Records
Copyright: 2015 Atlantic Recording Corporation for the United States and WEA International for the world outside the United States. A Warner Music Group Company



I wouldn't worry. Warner Music is not very litigious.

I am not trying to Monetize this song. I just don't want anyone making money off of my re-creation of this work. I don't want any money from it at all. I just do this for the enjoyment of creating and singing.

How altruistic of you.

You cannot "re-create" someone's else's song. You can steal it, or you can obtain the rights to do your version of it.


https://www.harryfox.com/find_out/rate_charts.html

Trapper, when you post a cover on YT it will either be monetized by the copyright holder or taken down. So you are fortunate that they chose to monetize instead of giving you a strike. You can't just use someone else's song without them getting paid. It's their song no matter how you rearranged it period. Last I read YT was working on a way for cover artists to get a share of monetization as well and I'm not sure if that is in place yet or not.

Bottom line be happy your cover is still up and hope it draws fans which will also watch your other videos. Covers are just a way to promote yourself. You should be thankful instead of upset.

"How do I license a new arrangement of a copyright-protected song, or a medley?


A new version or arrangement of an existing song that alters the melody or character of the song, or a medley of existing songs, is called a derivative work. You need to obtain permission from the publisher directly to create a derivative work and include that permission when you apply for a mechanical license here. To locate publisher information, visit:


ASCAP
BMI
SESAC
U.S. Copyright Office"


https://www.harryfox.com/find_out/faq.php

I did the smart thing and pulled the video

First of all, I am definitely NOT a lawyer, and don't even play one on TV. Although I do play an armchair lawyer watching old episodes of Perry Mason.

My understanding is that once a recording has been released commercially, you can create a cover of that song, as long as it doesn't deviate too far from the original and as long as (in the states) you obtain (meaning purchase) a mechanical license for the song. This allows you to create an MP3, a cassette tape, a record album, or a CD of the song.

A license costs $16 initial charge per song, plus $0.091 per unit created (minimum 25). If you purchase more that 5 songs on the same order (maybe you're doing an album), the initial cost for each song after 5 is $14). So, for a minimum mechanical license for one song, it's going to cost you ($16 + ($0.091 x 25)) = $18.28.

You need to visit The Harry Fox Agency (the clearing house for song licenses), check out Songfile there, and purchase your license for the song. My understanding is that you don't need explicit permission from the publisher of the song (because this is a recording, not notation), and the rules say once the song is released, you are allowed to create your own cover version; but you do have to pay for the mechanical license.

However, YouTube is video. That would then require a synchronization license, which has a different cost structure and if I recall correctly, does require permission from the publisher. All this information is available at Harry Fox.

Harry Fox also has a link for eSynch to mate songs with video, but you have to register to see additional information, so someone else would have to answer the details there.

As has been said, the song owner definitely has the rights to monetize your work, because it's not your work. It's theirs. You merely provided a different arrangement of it, but their copyright carries through.

Here are Songfile FAQs to help answer your questions.

Hope that helped.

Why??

It's been explained, if you post a cover, even a heavily rearranged cover of an existing song the owner has the right to ask YT to monetize it. That's what they did so that means you're good. This is what is now allowing people to post covers which to me is a great thing. It's possible some copyright owners don't want you putting up anything concerning their song but it's looking like most are cool with it as long as they get paid.

Put the thing back up.

Bob

I totally agree Bob (Jazzmammal) that was silly for him to take down his cover.

Yes, technically everything everyone said is true. Those laws were written before YT when sync meant a TV audience or movie and streaming didn't exist.

Today in the real world of YT, the multitudes most of them kids put up covers without knowing or caring about copyright law, people also upload songs for their weddings, vacations, pet videos or whatever else.

Ads get slapped on or the video gets taken down. Whether anyone likes it or not it's as simple as that.

I think it's a great thing and the best compromise for all concerned in todays world. And apparently the overwhelming majority of the music business does too.

Everything that everyone was saying about getting sued kind of spooked me. Thanks for clarifying that, I am re-uploading the video. I asked for advice on this and woooo I got it, all kinds. Sometimes I take things literally. Next time I will try not to go overboard and take my video down. Part of my disabilities are paranoia, and I take meds for it. So thanks you so much for clarifying that Sundance and jazzmammal. I will try not to jump so quickly the next time. I just didn't want to get sued, even the thought of that makes me cringe. I will post another link to it when it is re-uploaded....

Some opinions are more valuable than others. Here is the opinion of an entertainment attorney:


http://diymusician.cdbaby.com/youtube/on-posting-cover-songs-on-youtube-music-licensing-law-explained/

Yes, I read that a few years ago and it's helpful and a surprisingly easy read. The advice therein matches up pretty well with what has been stated here previously.

Good find, 90; thanks for posting.

It's not nearly enough, but at least this is a process that allows the composers to get something from their creative efforts.

90db has posted the answer in that link. Posting a cover to YouTube without proper license is illegal and against their TOS.

Although you could be sued for posting a cover that is highly unlikely unless your cover is very popular.

One of two things will likely happen when you post a cover to YouTube without proper license.

1) it will be monitized and show ads (you will receive none of the ad revenue)

2) it will be removed and you will get a strike against your account (after a few strikes your account is automatically cancelled and all videos on that account are deleted)

As a practical matter what you risk is losing your YouTube account and your uploaded videos.

Trapper..... my suggestion to you is to contact the Harry Fox Agency and see what the cost would be to LEGALLY post the song/video to YouTube. If YOU pay the fees, then YOU should be able to monitize the video and collect the income since you would own the license. Buying the license allows you the right to get paid for your efforts.

I rarely record and release the link to cover tunes for the very reason that I do not want to be in violation of the copyright laws.

Here's the real kick in the butt..... Lets say you post the song again..... again illegally....as you said above that you did. The marketing company comes in a monitizes it again. Understand this....NO ONE CARES what your intentions are. No one cares that you just want to cover the song and don't care about the money.... no one cares.

So... even though you have good intentions, the original copyright owners have the right to monitize the song...and.... they STILL have the right, should they decide, to pursue legal action against you for copyright infringement. Unless you have ALL of the proper licenses needed to do what you are doing.... you can still be sued. The amounts they can ask for in a court if they decide to do that can be staggering. Actual and punitive damages are allowed. Actual would be the royalties and perhaps the damage you did to the artist's reputation with your cover. Punitive damages are intended to punish you and make an example out of you so others will think twice.

It's always best to comply fully with copyright law. They may never decide to take legal action, being content to collect the monitization fees, then again, they may decide to have their day in court just to prove a point and make an example for others.

I do not agree with the copyright laws as they are written. There are a lot of things I would change (and I have a few copyrights myself). However, I find it best to comply with the copyright laws, because it might not be likely, but it could result in a big mess for me. And I'd like to avoid a big mess.

BTW, my website has been audited twice by BMI. Both times that asked a couple of questions. Both times I answered their questions. And both times I never heard from them again. The fees I paid to the lawyer when I set up my business were worth the money.

Insights and incites by Notes

All you have to do to understand what CAN happen to you if the copyright owner decides to take action is to recall the hundreds of folks who received bills for royalties due on the songs they had simply posted online for other folks to listen to and download. Some of those were in the THOUSANDS of dollars per song. And many people had posted dozens of songs. Kids were also caught in that mess.

This can happen to you: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/sep/11/minnesota-woman-songs-illegally-downloaded

Of course, she was doing a bit more than posting a cover version... but this paints the picture of what a copyright owner has the legal right to do

Harry Fox doesn't offer sync licenses Herb.

Actually, Harry Fox now has a service called eSynch.

However, this is only for the USA and only for music covered in the HFA database. To obtain rights for a track that is not available for licensing through eSynch, you need to contact the publisher and sound recording owner directly. To locate publisher information, you can use the Songfile Public Search or visit:

• ASCAP
• ASCAP
• BMI
• SESAC
• U.S. Copyright Office

Hope this helps.

It's still all very confusing and convoluted, though.

Quote from Harry Fox Site.

"NOTE: eSynch is limited to non-commercial use ONLY. eSynch cannot be used to license music for use in videos that will be uploaded to a third party website including YouTube and Vimeo."

Sorry, I missed that. Well then it's back to BMI, ASCAP, etc for a synch license. But you can post to your own personal web site legally using eSynch, as I understand it. Of course, that doesn't help if you want to monetize it.

I would still have concerns about just posting copyrighted material to YouTube and hoping for the best, when in fact the worst is still a real possibility. Maybe not probably, but still possible.

But it wouldn't surprise me if in the future YouTube comes out with some sort of licensing scheme to post covers with no legal problems (they're own eSynch, if you will).

Hey there Sundance, I just got permission to post my cover from the company that controls the song that I created called Adore by Jasmine Thompson. You can go here and the video is there. I also created another version where my voice is more out there. Here are the 2 links

Adore Video 1



Adore Video 2