A CHORUS?

Time for discussion.... rehashed, new POV... etc....

http://songtown.com/does-your-song-have-to-have-a-chorus/

Saw this and read it.... and ....well. I'm guilty of saying.... YES... if you are trying to write for an artist and want to hear your song on the radio..... then YES, it needs a chorus. So I went and wrote one several years back that violates this rule.

One of my co-write tunes that I really like....

OUGHT TO COUNT

fits this formula... no chorus, just a bridge. I was told by "folks who know" in Nashville that the song has some great verses but the lack of a chorus kills it as being viably commercial.

Discuss this or the topic in general.

Yep I reckon most songs need a chorus (And a good one at that) if for no other reason that the listener will probably learn and sing along with it first, other than the verse.

They say that the mark of a good song is one that your average lorry driver out on his rounds will sing along to, so nice to have a good chorus.

This guy from Louisiana is big on the country scene in Ireland at the moment, lives and gigs here. great singer and knows the songs to pick, check him out on youtube, I love this song great story and chorus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OcP20Q3pAU

I haven't looked up who the writer is yet.

Musiclover

I think we need to define some terms here. TO ME, a bridge is an interlude in the middle of a song. The whole song is considered a chorus. There are many standards that have no bridge, ie: Days of Wine and Roses, Everything I Love, Another You etc. One time through each of these songs is a chorus. A bridge is something included in a chorus. There are many standards that have a verse and a chorus. The chorus may or may not have a bridge in it. Ray

In your song, Herb, I'd say the last two lines of each verse could be considered a two line chorus.

Regarding the article:)

'I often get questions about different song forms with the BIG question being “Does my song HAVE to have a chorus.” I always respond, “It’s your song – do what you want.”. The REAL question they are asking is if their song has to have a chorus in order to be commercially viable.'

There's always the exception, but yes, a commercially viable song in this day and age has a chorus.

I usually 'hear' the song and 'see' its form as I start to write it. I may only have a chorus to start with, but I usually know early on how many verses it's going to have, how many choruses, and whether or not there will be a bridge and whether it will modulate.

I have a short song set in the Civil War that has four verses. I sing it acapella. I performed it once in public, at this sort of 'beatnik' open mic deal. It might be viable for a TV show or a movie. Who knows.

Blues.

OK - for many songs, it's OBVIOUS as hek. But Ray's points about definitions are well taken for me - I've been analyzing pop songs, and I'm learning that I can't always differentiate between the verse, bridge, and chorus in quite a few songs.

Has anyone some examples they would like to discuss in terms of basic definitions (should we use Ray's ?)

Just piling on here.

Song Parts:

Introduction
Verse
Pre-chorus
Chorus
Bridge
Conclusion
Collision
Instrumental solo
brake
Ad lib

My favorite terms - Intro and Outro

In learning cover songs for my set, I was surprised to note that several of Tom Petty's songs don't have any kind of chordal change-up throughout the song. They may alter the melody or insert harmonies, but the same 4 chords in the same order repeat throughout.

Doesn't seem to have hurt his popularity or how well the songs have been received

Numerous rock tunes use the same chord progression for the verse and the chorus. However, there is a change to the melody in the chorus.

'The Good Stuff' by Kenny Chesney. I don't think it has a definable chorus.

That is EVERY Tom Petty song, THOSE 4 chords. SUCH an overrated performer. Lyrics are just trite, sings through his nose..... Never got him, never got into him....

I don't think it is really a song has to have one; but more that you have paid staff writers most of the time writing the songs and so if a format sales they just rinse and repeat. How many times do you hear music today and think before the performer starts singing; that;s so and so, no it;s just the clone factory at work. Some of the biggest song's ever do not have a chorus; Freebird, Stairway to Heaven, Yesterday, Bohemian Rhapsody, but they all come back to the main idea which makes them memorable; plus in all of these songs there is an undeniable and unforgettable haunting melody, They can all be played without any vocals and automatically they are known. which in most songs even the uptempo tunes the lead instruments are what really make the song so memorable. It will be a lead guitar lick, or a piano solo, or group harmony. When people say Van Halen they automatically think guitar, no matter how many #1s they had with vocals. Really the only songs that rely totally on lyrics are Love songs with bare bones instrumentation. Christian music, or message type song. That does not mean the lyrics are not important; but when you look at most #1 songs, it is the melody; that you will hum even when you do not know the words.

The first long kiss on a second date.

Yeah, there's clearly defined verses, pre-chorus, chorus, and bridge.

While we're on the topic of song structure - can anyone have some books on the topic of pop songwriting harmony that they found useful (not that all the answers are in the books - but they're a great starting point for me).

In fact, sometimes just having a name for things can help the composition process - I saved jazzman dan's list for that very purpose.

Finally - as Pat mentioned - those songs with the exact same chords used in both verse and chorus - I'm always impressed when I learn that a song that has maintained my interest falls into that category - not so easy to write something so 'easy' and have people like it so much - IMHO.

BTW Eddie - you're looking quite classy in that picture with the suit.

I happen to be a big Tom Petty fan - I think his lyrics are really fun and the music catchy. Who else do you put in the same category with your feelings about Tom Petty - how about "The Cars" ?

If you have a song that has the same progression from the start to the finish.... you can still have well defined verses and choruses.

In the case of a song with the same prog.... you change the melody for the chorus and use notes that are higher in pitch and most listeners will not realize the chord prog is the same.

Here's a list of songwriting books.

I know that Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattison is very popular, and I can recommend it.

But Jimmy Webb's Tunesmith: Inside the Art of Songwriting is perhaps my favorite.

one of my pet-peeve bands is the SMITHS (even though the guitar player shares my last name)

All of that bands melodies seem to have fewer than 5 notes.

Hi, Joe ! :))

You really don´t have to know a lot of
fancy chords to write a hit or something close to ?
There must be a ton of songs based mostly on three
chords, some that are IMO really outright ingenious
like f.i. Guantanamera (that I useually refer to
as being a tune that uses three chords absolutely
wonderfully. Here is another tune mostly based on
three chords (E,A,B) (ok there are a few more in
the chorus part):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI83ZJMIx6Y

Cheers
Dani

Tom Petty is great! And he has had a fair amount of commercial success I'd say!

Lipstick on a pig theory....



Yes to The Cars. And U2, who the last I heard still haven't found what they're looking for, looking where the streets have no name, even on Sunday bloody Sunday.... You could chain those 3 songs together and nobody would know you changed song. Same speed, same key, same feel.....

That's what I get for relying on memory:)