Hi all,

Though I started playing music at age 14 (now 49), I consider myself at best an advanced beginner. I found that given my goals, and given the tab available in the "Guitar for the Practicing Musician" books, that reading the tab in conjunction with listening to the songs was far quicker than reading. This was especially true given the nature of open strings and position making all the difference in the world to playing parts that sounded authentic to the original recording. Many parts sounded flat and boring if played in the wrong position and without all the expected open strings. I never understood why in all the guitar transcriptions that included both tab and staff, that on the staff portion they never seemed to indicate EACH AND EVERY position change, and each and every open string.

That said - I wished back then that I could read from the staff - it just seemed to me it would take far too long to reach that level - and I never had (or made) the time to develop my reading to that level.

Now to the question - when I first learned to read rhythms, I did so using the numbers approach with foot tapping:
1 2 3 4 (quarters)
1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and (eighths)
1 ee and a 2 ee and a 3 ee and a 4 ee.

As I read a piece of music, I would mentally place the correct sound under each rhythm symbol, and try to play steadily using my foot tapping on quarters to keep accurate time.

As I watch my school music teacher teach rhythm to young kids (K, 1, 2), he uses a different method I didn't learn - e.g. "ta" "ta" "tiki" I don't know what this method is called - but it must be common.

So my questions to the experienced reader out there -

1.) is my approach the most commonly used, or are there other ways to first look at a piece of music and analyze it before "sight reading" it.

2.) are there other methods to reading rhythms that work better than the one taught by my teacher all those years ago ? I've never gotten beyond it.

3.) what would you recommend to improve sight reading in a fun way ? (actually, I know the obvious answer - more practice lol) do you have any more detailed and specific tips

As always, thanks in advance for all of you who so generously share your experience.

I will try to answer your questions:

1-yes your approach is not only the most commonly used it is also the most beneficial IMHO. If you are using only tabs then you must know the song prior to playing it. But if you read music you can play most all songs in your grade level: I say most, as you might not be prolific in some music genres techniques such as flamingo guitar. A good guitar teacher will teach you the notes in all positions.

2- other good methods using words and rhymes.

http://lessonplanspage.com/musiclamathcreaterhythmicsentenceswithsyllables38-htm/

https://www.teachingchannel.org/videos/elementary-music-teaching-techniques

3-I get the most site reading fun from fake books and Norton's Music's corresponding discs.

http://nortonmusic.com/contents.html#top

Just choose a song and load the song's chords from the disc. I do this for my bass, wind controller, and guitar. I try to site read songs in different positions and different octaves.

These are just my opinions and yours may vary.

I've seen both the 'and- a-2-ee' method and the 'tiki' method in my years.

One of m favorite teachers often put words to rhythms as he wanted to hear them. Example; 'Shave and a haircut', as this not only established the rhythm but also the duration of each note.. when 8 trumpet players think those words while playing a phrase the last note is naturally short (staccato). Actually the last couple note durations are well defined.

It's kind of fun to think back on all the teachers I've had. My dad said my 6th grade band teacher asked about me the other day .. I was glad to hear he's still kicking!

Joe, I'm well older than you but I learned to count rhythms the same way.

Trivia: The sound tiki was used by brass players learning to double and triple tongue. Now if you were to observe a lesson it's more likely tuku or taka. But this isn't to learn a rhythm; it's how to coordinate a repeating even rhythm.

I don't consider myself a "reading" musician. I can decipher the notes on the lines and spaces of the staff if I need too, but for all intents and purposes, I don't read.

I can "read" and play from charts.

Back in the day, I did take piano and drum lessons. It was expected and required that I read. And I did.

When it comes to teaching the note values and rhythms, anything that works is fine. My piano teacher used the "1 e and a 2" method. My school drum teacher used "be da lee dum" since I guess that seemed to roll off the tongue easier for the faster tempos often used in percussion with marching bands and orchestra. The drum teacher also trilled and used whatever sounds he needed to get the rhythm across. Sometimes it took all we could muster to not bust out laughing at his expressions.

To answer your OP question.... What do experienced musicians that read see in a piece of music that beginning readers do not ? I really wouldn't know since I don't read. However, my guess would be the same thing we see in the printed page as readers of English. With music that would be the rhythm and pitches. I knew a number of people who could sit down to a piano and play a brand new selection of music, no matter what the key signature. I noticed that they would look over the music for a few seconds, getting the lay of the land so to speak.... then they would play it like they had known it for years. I've also seen the same thing with singers and sheet music. Given the pitch, they could then sing the melody line perfectly with the proper rhythm.

I recall hearing one of those "note reading" piano players remark after getting and simply looking at a new song on sheet music.... "Oh, what a pretty song"..... before she had ever played the first note.

That is a skill I an in awe of. Had I kept up my studies, I don't doubt that I would be capable of that skill but when I started playing the guitar, reading was out the window in favor of playing by ear which is also a developed and learned skill. I've had piano players and musicians who could sight read as I described above, look at me with amazement and ask me how in the world can I play without needing to see the music? So I know it goes both ways.

Hope that kinda, maybe answered the OP question....

It has been 45 years since my Music Teacher taught me the one ee and uh. I was learning the snare drum, lol. First grade.

We did have the rubber practice pads to pound on though.

Thanks for the memory.

Trax

i think it depends on the detail in the sheet music
bass cleff
ledger lines https://www.google.com/search?q=ledger+lines&biw=1024&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjG156cwaXJAhXG1h4KHRrECQ4QsAQIHA
pedal points
the differences between slurs and ties
meaning of the different symbols used for dynamics
chord symbols, dim 1/2 dim maj 7
repeats & endings http://readsheetmusic.info/repeats-ds-al-fine-dc-al-code.shtml

Re: What do experienced musicians that read see in a piece of music that beginning readers do not ?

Just my opinion of course but I believe they see phrases (2 to 4 bars maybe more at a time) rather than separate notes.
They absorb the music in chunks. Cheers.

Joe, I sight read fairly well. I was classically trained, although play mainly jazz & pop these days. I also played a lot of Scott Joplin's music at one stage (and still do from time to time).

One thing I find is that I generally read about one bar ahead of what I play. I'm not sure if others do this too. I think Raymb1 is a pretty good reader. Maybe he'll chip in with his technique. Ray, you there?

Maybe it was the complexity of reading complex syncopated phrasings that made me read ahead of what I was playing - not sure. Occasionally I'll be playing ragtime with the assistance of a page turner. I nod my head for them to turn the page and they say "but you still haven't played that last bar yet!"

Trev

My take may be a little different.

You will never be a sightreader if using tabs.

If you graduate to standard notation (I know it's hard at first) you can eventually read the music without thinking of the names of the notes and yes, even the rhythms.

Then to answer your question in the subject line, you can think about expression: dynamics, articulation, subtle timing, ornaments, etc. and eventually it will come naturally to you.

You don't see these things in the music, but when reading music notation becomes as easy as reading these words, you will start playing with expression as easily as your voice would express things you read out loud.

When I was in school

• 8th notes were 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
• 8th note triplets were 1 a ly 2 a ly 3 a ly 4 a ly
• 16th notes were 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a

and so on

Of course that's not the only way to do it.

If the piece is difficult I count out the difficult parts before I sight read. I remember my band director's words, "If you can say it you can play it." By this time we were reading notes without saying the name of the notes in our head, but going from the eye to the fingers without anything in between (another advantage of reading notation instead of tab).

I can sight-read just about anything on the sax, flute, and wind synth, but guitar is my newest instrument, so while I can read simple melodies, it still takes some woodshedding to get the difficult parts down.

Going to the wood shed is nothing to be ashamed of. The more you do it, the better you get at sight-reading.

There is always more than one right way to learn and play music. This is what works for me, YMMV.

Insights and incites by Notes

I learned the ta ta tiki method from Mr. Strickland in 1973. That was for playing, not for counting rests. 1 ee and uh method came later more for counting rests.

I don't know the ta ta tiki method, so I a wrongly assumed it was counting.

So what is it? Articulation? (second guess - double-tonguing).

Insights and incites by a curious Notes

Bob, it could be. See my post above.

Everything I've learned about music has been through good teachers, a lot of practice, a lot of experimenting and getting advice from knowledgeable musicians. There are no shortcuts. One never stops learning. Ray

You know, triplets were tuh-ti-kuh tuh-ti-kuh .. (grin)

My theory;
I believe it is a way to teach horn players to not only count but relate it to a method... yes it is really originally tonguing but if you use that as a way to think of beat divisions it helps things become second nature. Not only are you seeing/counting it but also articulating it.
One-e-and-a two doesn't help articulation on horns.
Ta Ta TiKi does.

/Then all you gotta worry about is breath and fingerings.
There's a lot to reading/playing a horn that becomes second nature after a while. Any instrument really.
To improve your reading, nothing is better than reading!

Whatever works for you is best.

As a sax player, I use a variable tonguing from a ta to a da with different force/speeds of the tongue. But that doesn't mean I couldn't have learned using the tiki method instead the 1 e & a

Insights and incites by Notes