While going through some old hard drives, I found some songs I did in BIAB from several years ago, so I thought I would post them along with explanations of what you're hearing. The first 3 songs go back 10 or more years:
"Made For Lovin' You" This song was done before BIAB had a soloist function. Rodney did all the lead guitar stuff and sang harmony. What makes it kinda interesting to me is holding all the instruments, except drum fills, at points during the song for emphasis.
"If I'm In, She's Out" This was right after the Soloist function was introduced and I used an Acoustic Steel String Guitar setting for the intro, the solo, and the ending. Deana's harmonies during the choruses were generated by the Digitech Harmonizer.
"Lifetime Warranty"Like Rodney's song, I used a real guitar for the intro, the solo, and all the fills, and brought in Kathy Kersey to add all the backup vocals for Angie's main vocal. Again, I used drum stops to make it more real sounding.
"(You're Keepin' Me) At A Distance"This one is the latest BIAB arrangement, using all Real Instruments and Styles, except I use an actual fiddle player, and Bob played mandolin, as well as singing the lead vocal. Switching to the "B' style kicks the choruses into overdrive, and putting stops in (except for the steel part) makes it a little more "real" sounding. Again, I brought in Kathy Kersey to add all the backup vocals.
These songs may help give you some ideas for adding some flavors to your own BIAB songs. Anyway, I found them and thought they might be of interest to some of you.
Hi Harvey Gerst,
WOW and WOW again
You said
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These songs may help give you some ideas for adding some flavors to your own BIAB songs
I think that it is going to be hard to achieve the professional sound that you have managed in your 4 songs.
I have downloaded them all and will try to learn from them.
Thank you very much for posting them,
Well Done 
Regards
Michee
It's a privilege to hear BIAB in the hands of an absolute professional. It is also interesting to hear how your utilization of the program progressed along with its development, pointing up that the notes you don't play are as important as the ones you do.
What synthesizer(s) did you use for the MIDI parts?
Richard
On the older songs, I used the original Roland Sound Canvas. The last song was done with the RealTracks stuff.
Harvey is one of the best in many fields, and has given lots of good advice. Thanks for letting us hear what's possible Harvey. Any outboard gear used on these?
Probably some light compression on the vocals (FMR RNC compressor) and a cheap Lexicon Alex reverb.
simply beautiful, harvey. thanks.
That's impressive Mate. Nice clarity. Yeh a compressor really makes a difference in vocals. You can bring 'em right out in your face or put 'em in the background. Just depends on what you want to do. You do have to be careful with it tho'. Too much and you get either a mushy sound or a pumping feel. Not what you want.
Ahhh the stuff I've learned here.
Very impressive indeed, if this were a golf tournament some would be shouting "You Da Man!"
Later,
Thank you all for your praise, but I really only posted these to point out that BIAB is very capable of achieving professional sounding results with almost any version. The trick is to capitalize on its strengths. It took me many hours to get those recordings: fine-tuning drum patterns, adjusting the A and B patterns, and adding live instruments where necessary.
BIAB is one of the most valuable recording tools I've ever come across in my 50+ years as a recording engineer. I've used it since the early DOS only versions - and it still amazes me as to just how well Peter has done in creating a perfect songwriting tool. With just a little creative input, anyone can make a really good demo.
That's great sounding material! Thanks for posting Harvey.
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That's great sounding material! Thanks for posting Harvey.
Peter, your program made it all possible, so it's me who has to thank you.
Heya, Cap'n Gerst!
BIg Virginny WAVE to ya down theah in Tejas, podnuh!
Kinda figured you'd be around on big UPDATE announcement day.
The new RealTracks are likely gonna be right up your alley, Harvey.
Methinks there be some munnymakers in theyuh...
--Mac
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Heya, Cap'n Gerst!
BIg Virginny WAVE to ya down theah in Tejas, podnuh!
Kinda figured you'd be around on big UPDATE announcement day.
The new RealTracks are likely gonna be right up your alley, Harvey.
Methinks there be some munnymakers in theyuh...
--Mac
Yup, but I'm wondering if I can just send PG the 80GB UltraPAK USB hard drive I have and have them load all the new stuff on it? Will it all fit?
It's definitely a "munnymaker" for me.
They'll send ya a brand new hard drive already loaded, that's the way I'd recommend going.
Or, put an intern on the download helm and restock yer own hard drive.
--Mac
Harvey,
Your music is absolutely beautiful... thank you for sharing it.
<<and putting stops in (except for the steel part) makes it a little more "real" sounding.>>
Could you elaborate on this a little... what are drum stops and how are you using them?
Gale
I'm pretty sure that Harvey is referring to the judicious use of BIAB Hits and Rests, Gale.
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I'm pretty sure that Harvey is referring to the judicious use of BIAB Hits and Rests, Gale.
Exactly, Mac.
There are four steps involved:
1. Insert a part marker AFTER the bar where you want a solo drum fill. In this case, we want a drum fill at Bar 4, so we put an "A" marker at the start of Bar 5.
2. With the cursor on Bar 4, right click and choose the Chord Settings option.
3. Select Hold, Shot, or Rest. (I usually use the Hold option most.)
4. Finally, select the box marked "Except" and then mark everything but the drums.
Now when you play the track, all the instruments will hold at Bar 4, while the Drums play a nice turnaround.
In the very last song ("Keepin' Me At A Distance"), I used a rest for all the instruments, but kept the pedal steel going.
Thank you Mac and Harvey... I appreciate the detailed explanation. Now I will listen to your examples again to hear what you are referring to :-)
Gale
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Thank you Mac and Harvey... I appreciate the detailed explanation. Now I will listen to your examples again to hear what you are referring to :-)
Your help is much appreciated here, also.
Thank you,
Don S.
I’m late to the party but I’m sure glad I came!
GREAT material here. All four songs are pro all the way. Super mixes and outstanding vocals.
PS – my favorite is “If I’m in, She’s Out”.
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I’m late to the party but I’m sure glad I came!
GREAT material here. All four songs are pro all the way. Super mixes and outstanding vocals.
PS : my favorite is "If I’m in, She’s Out".
It's one of my favorites, too. My wife Karen wrote it. It's totally MIDI all the way on an early BIAB version. Just one singer with a Digitech Harmonizer.
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... It's totally MIDI all the way on an early BIAB version. Just one singer with a Digitech Harmonizer.
Care to share what you used for the MIDI synth?
Sounds good as it gets.
--Mac
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On the older songs, I used the original Roland Sound Canvas. The last song was done with the RealTracks stuff.
from earlier in the thread
Hey Harv...sounds like Steve Wariner, on "Made For Lovin You".... anyway what sound card R U using?
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Hey Harv...sounds like Steve Wariner, on "Made For Lovin You".... anyway what sound card R U using?
If you mean what did I use to record the vocal, it was recorded from my Soundtracs board into 3 Tascam DA-38 Digital 8-track recorders. I now have 3 Mackie HDR 2496 24 track digital recorders, spread out over 3 studios.
Harvey,
Would it be out of place for me to ask you to identify the artists? You've said Rodney, Deana, Bob, and Angie, and maybe I should know who they are, but I don't.
Of course, you may not want to tell, either, and I understand that.
Gary
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Harvey,
Would it be out of place for me to ask you to identify the artists? You've said Rodney, Deana, Bob, and Angie, and maybe I should know who they are, but I don't.
Of course, you may not want to tell, either, and I understand that.
Gary
No problem:
Rodney Smith, singer/songwriter (no idea what happened to him) His song.
Deana Griffin, singer (just sings in church now) Our song.
Angie Pennington, singer/songwriter (lost touch with her) Our song.
Bob Nobles, singer/songwriter (lives nearby - does small coffeehouse gigs) His song.
Cool stuff. I would love to hear the first three with real tracks added. I'll bet it would make a big difference. The vocals were great and well mixed.
Thank you Ed for the compliments; maybe I'll go back and add real tracks to the middle two songs when I have some free time.
In addition to being a total pro in the studio engineering and mixing department Harvey, you are an excellent musical arranger. It takes taste and ears to know just how and when to add a touch of guitar here and a touch of backing vox there as well as making the decision as to when to use the holds. I have a feeling you had a hand in the chord changes too. Lifetime Warranty is my favorite.
10 year old Biab and an antique Sound Canvas. Amazing.
Good to see you posting again, been awhile.
Bob
Bob,
My son Alex is the real star at our studio, not me. He works our big "Studio A"* with groups that have a decent budget. Here's a sample of his work with real musicians:
Liz Williams - "Typical Heyday" Now THAT'S what I call producing and engineering.
*Note: Our "A" room has an MCI 556D console and our mixing room in Lewisville has an SSL4048 board. I usually work in Studio B, our smallest room, for people doing demos and low budget stuff.
I did do one interesting project a couple of years ago for a Dallas ad agency. I had a friend of mine in Nashville (who uses top musicians to record commercial Karaoke tracks) do the backing tracks and then, I added the vocals and did the mix. The vocalist was Scott Headstream, one of our Studio B engineers. It was a fun session and it turned out well:
eBay Commercial
Cool stuff, you obviously taught him well. Hmm, wonder what they paid the Beach Boys for that eBay thing?
Bob
That apple did not fall too far from the tree.
You must be one proud daddy, Harvey.
And deservedly so.
--Mac
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Cool stuff, you obviously taught him well. Hmm, wonder what they paid the Beach Boys for that eBay thing?
Bob
I know they paid the mechanicals to Harry Fox Agency, but, as far as I know, they never used the song.
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That apple did not fall too far from the tree.
You must be one proud daddy, Harvey.
And deservedly so.
--Mac
Nah, the apple's turning rotten; he keeps reminding me how deaf I am.
I've learned how to get even though.
I'll walk in during one of his sessions (he's currently doing Free Reign's album, made up of 3 of the Dallas Cowboys), I'll listen for a little bit, then I'll turn to him and say, "Hey, that's pretty damn good."
Then I'll pause for a few seconds and add, "You're wrong, Alex; I don't think they suck." And then I'll leave.
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Then I'll pause for a few seconds and add, "You're wrong, Alex; I don't think they suck." And then I'll leave.
Mr. Gerst sir, you are a bad man - I love it!!! 
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Then I'll pause for a few seconds and add, "You're wrong, Alex; I don't think they suck." And then I'll leave.
Mr. Gerst sir, you are a bad man - I love it!!!
You have to imagine the effect when you have Marc Colombo (6'8", 315 pounds), Leonard Davis (6'6", 354 pounds), and Cory Procter (6'4", 297 pounds), all glaring at Alex as I leave the room, while he tries to explain that I was just kidding.
Quality time with your kids, priceless.
P.S.,
You have no idea how big these guys really are till you see them in person, up close.
Well, I thought it was funny.
Oh yes, very funny. Quality time indeed. You should have that on video. I'm sure after they stuffed Alex into a guitar case, they all laughed like hell.
Bob
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Well, I thought it was funny.
Absolutely! Say, just how big is your son - if he's a little on the short side it would have been REALLY intimidating!
Alex isn't short; he's around 6'1", but at 175 pounds, he's not in their league.
I'm 6'3" at around 290. Lost a bit during the recent bout with the surgeons, but started working out again and some of the power has returned.
If ya need an older guy what knows how to police the bunch in realtime, give a holler.
I'll line 'em up for a bit of bible study...
Always a pleasure.
--Mac
They're all yours Mac, I'm only 5'11" and tryin' to lose weight...
Citaat:
On the older songs, I used the original Roland Sound Canvas. The last song was done with the RealTracks stuff.
Hahaha, that'll put them boys and girls at gearslutz.com in their place! "Blabla multi-$ supersynth blahblah only way to get an acceptable result blahblah..."
You show that it is not the gear you use, but the way you use it makes all the difference! And you sir have the art down to perfection!
Thanks for sharing these songs, I really enjoyed them.
Very true but keep in mind where those mostly young people are coming from. Hip hop, Rap, Urban. That style of "music" production has nothing to do with what were hearing in this forum. I can't speak for Harvey but somehow I doubt he can master a rap album but if he has all I can say is wow. Last year just for laughs (or tears) I researched hip hop and found out that just a few years ago it outsold the Beatles, Elvis, all classical, jazz and the entire country genre combined. Think about that. Combined. Most of us here completely ignore it because it sounds like it does but that's where the music industry truly is so when you visit other forums and the average age of the posters are under 35, that's their point of view. Not all of them of course, but certainly most.
Bob
Yo, jazzmammal,
I can rap like an animal.
Albums, I don about three,
With other people rappin',
It really wasn't me.
Got a big rap session a week in October,
18 song CD, so it may run over.
Ain't no kinda music that I can't record,
'Cept Les Paul, and maybe Mary Ford.
Huh, huh, huh, huh........
All hail, yowzza, yowzza, you ARE the man, bro
I know most of the guys are actually pretty good people, my 26 year old office assistant has over 4K of 15" bass thumpers in his truck and I've ridden with him a few times and he's played some of his favorites for me. I can hear the talent there but man oh man to sit in a control room and have to mix that stuff?? I know you're running a business and as I just said above, rap is huge but still....
Bob
Well at least some of the rap today is beginning to have more melodic vocals and music added into the mix as opposed to the old hardcore all talkie straight rhymes.
Good stuff Harvey. Love your finesse.
Sundance