I'm being forced to get rid of my old desktop DAW computer and moving to a laptop. I'll miss the e-mu 0404 PCI sound card, but now I'm looking for a usb (or firewire?) audio interface. I'd like to be able to plug in a guitar or a mic (or both?). I'd like to be able to monitor via headphones. I'd like it to be simple to use (I'm still not really sure I really understand the Patchmix software for the e-mu card). I'd like software effects to play with (that was a real nice feature of the 0404). Price range maybe $200 or less (could go higher). I'm running Windoze XP SP2 on the laptop. Anybody using one of these they really like? Anybody have any suggestions? All input appreciated.
thanks,
Bruce
M-Audio Fast Track Pro (USB)
I have a friend who has been using one with PGMusic products and a Toshiba laptop for over a year now.
There were "the usual" startup tweaks that needed to be done, but once we got him through those and once he got the small learning curve on the very easy to operate Control Panel etc. he loves the thing. Same inputs as you want to use, Guitar and Vocals.
--Mac
TASCAM US-122 USB. You should be able to pick one up on e-Bay second hand. Exactly what you are looking for and it is what I use with no problems whatsoever. It has been superceded now by the US-144 in that TASCAM no longer sells it but if money is a concern, then get one from e-Bay. See below
TASCAM Ebay
I'm a Tascam user too -
Works good for me
Powderman, Sam, and Mac
Thanks for the input. I've looked at reviews on both of these (m-audio and tascam) on Amazon and Musician's Friend. Those are a real mixed bag. You can tell some of the reviewers just aren't very familiar with computer audio devices. There are people singing the praises of both of these units, others cursing them... I'll try to go to both websites and browse their forums. The Tascam unit is less expensive. The laptop is a HP dv1000, currently has 1G RAM, I'm adding another (up to 2 G). I'm putting a larger (320 G), faster (7200) HD into it (I want to get all the Real Tracks on the HD). What kind and specifications of laptops are you using these with? Have you plugged an electric guitar into them? Used midi keyboard with them? Sam, I'm assuming you've recorded vocals and been happy with the tascam. I'd also seen the Line 6 units, anyone have any experience with those? Again, all help greatly appreciated.
Bruce
Bruce, I've been running the US-122 for a few years now with several laptops, all of them HP. My current DAW is an HP 2.8GHz EliteBook with 4GB RAM and a 300GB HD running XP Pro SP3 but it worked fine with my old DAW which was nowhere near such high spec. Yes, I have used it primarily for recording vocals but it also works fine with guitar. I don't have a MIDI keyboard but I see no reason why that would be a problem.
HTH
Be careful about the aging Tascam 122. Good unit, but word on the street is that drivers for newer OS like Vista and especially Win7 are unobtanium. I haven't confirmed this, best to check the Tascam Support Website to see what drivers are published.
M-Audio, on the other hand, is known for great driver development and support, with robust drivers.
--Mac
Yeah.
They don't.
Anyone considering purchase for use w/Win7, which all the new machines are shipping with, should take notice.
This isn't the only company that has not released any Win drivers for their soundcards. E-MU tells people to "try the Vista drivers" -- which apparently work somewhat but have problems when certain things, like Windows Sounds, are invoked. Caveat Emptor.
--Mac
I appreciate the input. It looks like the Tascam unit is now an updated US-122MKII, but their website is lacking in info about drivers. On the other hand, it looks like their unit has two separate mic plugs and two ¼” input plugs, where the m-audio has two “hybrid” plugs (you plug either an XLR OR a ¼” plug into one of these). This may be a stupid question, but with the Tascam, can you record two mics AND two ¼” inputs simultaneously? If so, will these all record to a single track (in Real Band, for instance), or would you be able to record L & R channels on two separate tracks simultaneously? Both of these look like good units and would seem to do what I am looking for. I’ve had several m-audio products (keyboard, jamlab, usb uno) and have been satisfied with all of them. It also seems that lots of people on the PG forums speak highly of their interfaces, suggesting they “get along well” with PG products.
Bruce
Just a matter of design choice in the type of plug connections used.
Both units are only a single stereo channel inputm regardless of the number of apparent physical connections.
That means that you can only record to two mono tracks at a time, at most. For example, a mic into one channel and a guitar into the other.
The use of the single combination XLR/quarter inch jack is just a better space saving situation. It is still an either/or situation with either unit. Nothing to be gained by having the plugs separated.
If you want or need to record to more than one stereo channel (or divide that into two mono channels) then you have to forego USB connection, as it doesn't have the needed bandwidth and look into a multiple-input soundcard situation. More money. More complication. If you don't have a computer with a PCI slot available, such as a laptop or one of the smaller desktops, then FireWire connect is the choice for multiple channel input at this time. That also has its complications. For instance, if your computer has a FireWire port on it, you should first make sure that it is using the TI FireWire interface or the soundcard may not work.
--Mac
Thanks, Mac. That's kind of what I expected about the separate input plugs (still can only record to a single stereo track). I think, taking it all into consideration, that this Fast Track Pro may be the choice for me. Mac, do you know about midi keyboard input on this unit - would that be able to record to a seperate track in Real Band? For instance, if I had a guitarist, a singer, and a keyboardist playing at the same time, would I be able to record the guitarist to the L on an audio channel, the singer to the R on the same audio channel, and the midi keyboard to a separate midi channel simultaneously?, or would this be either audio OR midi, but not both at the same time?
thanks,
Bruce
Quote:
Thanks, Mac. That's kind of what I expected about the separate input plugs (still can only record to a single stereo track). I think, taking it all into consideration, that this Fast Track Pro may be the choice for me. Mac, do you know about midi keyboard input on this unit - would that be able to record to a seperate track in Real Band? For instance, if I had a guitarist, a singer, and a keyboardist playing at the same time, would I be able to record the guitarist to the L on an audio channel, the singer to the R on the same audio channel, and the midi keyboard to a separate midi channel simultaneously?, or would this be either audio OR midi, but not both at the same time?
thanks,
Bruce
Yes, you can quite easily do that. MIDI is a separate entity, being only data such as note-on, note-off, etc. As a result, MIDI is very small in size as compared to audio data, matter of fact, you could hook up to 16 separate MIDI controllers at the same time as the two Audio Inputs, programming each controller to send on only one of the 16 MIDI channels apiece, resulting in 16 separate simultaneous tracks of MIDI along with those two tracks of Audio. But there may be throughput problems with that many MIDI devices "daisy-chained" into the one MIDI input. You could easily record two MIDI instruments at the same time as two Audio inputs, though, and even add a set of MIDI drums in there via the USB, I should think. I do that all the time here and have done so since around '95. But my sound devices are not USB input. Not yet, anyway.
Just recently completed a project for a young jazz singer in which we used all MIDI instruments, my keyboard as piano, along with MIDI guitar playing Acoustic Bass patch and a drummer playing a Roland MIDI drumset. Her singing was the only audio channel. We intentionally recorded it realtime live without separate multitracking or punchins, to get that live jazz trio feel. People who have heard the pre-release tell us that they are surprised to find out it is MIDI backing. It also allowed me to change the synths and patches after the initial tracks were recorded, looking for better sound and matches, things like that. For example, the sound of the Roland MIDI hardware box was good, but when I dropped some other drum samples in there instead using Gigasamples, it really lit up, what with all those more velocity layers and such being available. Now the drummer is not satisfied with the sound of his kit anymorem especially the brushes (grin).
--Mac
Bruce, the TASCAM is an either/or (MIDI / XLR / guitar jack). There is a switch that sets it. However, you can record the left channel to one track and the right channel to a scond track. Seems you need more simultaneous inputs (like 3 inputs?), in which case Mac's solution is better
I just called my buddy with the Fast Track Pro to see if he's ever tried recording MIDI and Audio at the same time. He wasn't home at the time. I doubt that he has, although he does have a MIDI guitar there, he usually records his beloved ES-175 as audio. I'll try him again later.
However, after perusing the online M-Audio .pdf User Manual for the Fast Track Pro, I see no reason why one shouldn't be able to record MIDI and Audio at the same time, at least there is no switch as on the Tascam unit. It should be possible.
--Mac
For anyone trying to contact M-Audio technical support - let me know if you actually get through. I can't. I set up an account years ago and of course forgot my password.
Password resets are so buggy, that M-Audio has a page on what to do when you get a buggy password reset:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=00bf1e831cad948bf1068450d9374f3eProblem is - that process doesn't work either.
Right now, I'm support-less with my M-Audio products (Fast Track and Oxygen 49)
Thanks again. Mac, you'd commented that usb limited you to one stereo channel - what about a device like this m-audio Fast Track Ultra
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra.htmlCouldn't this record to more than one track at once? Or would all those inputs just be recorded to a single stereo track? Maybe I'm missing the boat on all of this? I don't really have the need for all this input, but I'm just curious and think maybe I'm just not getting it. Or are you saying that usb just doesn't provide enough throughput to reliably perform with a device like this - resulting in drop outs or "pops", crashing your system, or some other such catastrophe?
Don't mean to be a pest about this, but like I said, I'd just like to feel like I understand this.
thanks again,
Bruce
One stereo channel or two mono channels
Quote:
Where's WIN7?
Given that vista and *win7 use the same underlying kernel I would expect vista drivers to work in win7. The only vista drivers you may have problems with are the ones that vista had trouble with too. This is a result of the huge number of changes m$ made to driver specs. for vista during the pre-release lead up.
*Despite claims to the contrary, win7 is little more than an efficiency tweak of vista - pretty much what vista should have been when it shipped. Kinda like vista SP 2.5...
Quote:
For anyone trying to contact M-Audio technical support - let me know if you actually get through. I can't. I set up an account years ago and of course forgot my password.
Password resets are so buggy, that M-Audio has a page on what to do when you get a buggy password reset: http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=00bf1e831cad948bf1068450d9374f3e
Problem is - that process doesn't work either.
Right now, I'm support-less with my M-Audio products (Fast Track and Oxygen 49)
I have found the M-Audio forum pretty good acutally: M-Audio Forum
They also have done a good job with Win7 drivers in general. Older gear is what is falling off the map. I do happen to have my password to the forum, if there is something specific you want to know I can look it up or post a question. Otherwise, can't you simply set up a new account??
Dan
I don't have it and I don't know that I will buy it, but the Zoom R16 looks really cool: USB 2 audio interface, controller, AND 8-input recorder. You can plug it in your computer as an interface and even control your DAW software (if it's compatible). Or you can take it on the road. It really does everything that you could want. Now, how well it works, I don't know...and it's also twice the $200 that you wanted to spend.
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=2009
Dan,
That Zoom unit does look cool, but that's way beyond my humble needs. Maybe even something as basic as the m-audio Fast Track would do, though the Fast Track Pro does provide midi input, option for 2 mics, more output options, etc. Mostly what I would do is play BIAB or other audio files thru the computer, while playing along/practicing the guitar. If I can be loud, just playing thru the guitar amp is fine. But at night I need to be quiet - which is where the ability to monitor with headphones would be really nice. I've been doing this by plugging the amp into a mixer, along with the computer audio output. It would just be nice to have a single unit that could do all of this. If there are some decent software guitar effects included, I wouldn't even have to bother with the amp. Again, thanks for everyone's input.
Bruce
Plug your amp into the US-122 and away you go!
Quote:
Thanks again. Mac, you'd commented that usb limited you to one stereo channel - what about a device like this m-audio Fast Track Ultra
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra.html
Couldn't this record to more than one track at once? Or would all those inputs just be recorded to a single stereo track? Maybe I'm missing the boat on all of this? I don't really have the need for all this input, but I'm just curious and think maybe I'm just not getting it. Or are you saying that usb just doesn't provide enough throughput to reliably perform with a device like this - resulting in drop outs or "pops", crashing your system, or some other such catastrophe?
Don't mean to be a pest about this, but like I said, I'd just like to feel like I understand this.
thanks again,
Bruce
Ignore Sam. Hasn't a clue. He's apparently too busy typing replies to be bothered with going to the website and consulting their manual. Looks like a desirable piece to me.
YES, the Ultra has 8 available inputs if you count the two digital inputs, which all manufacturers do.
Realworld, you could connect up to four Mics and two Lines or use some of the four mic inputs as Line Inputs also, say, two Mics and four line inputs. Plus MIDI at the same time.
What you should be aware of is that this is very likely only to work a the lower bitrates, like 44.1 or 48, USB 2.0 may be fast, but it is not going to handle the bandwidth of six 96khz channels of input all at once. Check the manual, likely is the case that input count goes down at higher rates. But this is certainly not a kill, for recording at 16/44.1 is a very good idea anyway, since that is what CDs are burned at.
--Mac
This is getting enjoyable. Can we duel at 10 paces with hardware? Never count out the Brits in a duel/war. ON guard!
This likes me well. These foils have all a length?..
Whoops, Hamlet just invaded my grey matter. Or in the US it's gray. Of course I played Hamlet...in the 13th grade at the school play... in 196..never mind.
YES, the Ultra has 8 available inputs if you count the two digital inputs, which all manufacturers do.
Realworld, you could connect up to four Mics and two Lines or use some of the four mic inputs as Line Inputs also, say, two Mics and four line inputs. Plus MIDI at the same time.
What you should be aware of is that this is very likely only to work a the lower bitrates, like 44.1 or 48, USB 2.0 may be fast, but it is not going to handle the bandwidth of six 96khz channels of input all at once. Check the manual, likely is the case that input count goes down at higher rates. But this is certainly not a kill, for recording at 16/44.1 is a very good idea anyway, since that is what CDs are burned at.
--Mac
That clears up part of my puzzlement... it sounds like the throughput of this audio data could be too much.
I think the other part of my misunderstanding deals with the "counting the two digital inputs, which all manufacturers do." For this Ultra unit, would ALL of these four mics be recorded to ONE stereo channel in Real Band? or would one be able to assign two of them to track A (L & R) and the other two to track B (L & R)? If you then added two more line inputs, could these then be assigned to track C (L & R), or would ALL of these various inputs all have to go to the same track?
In the instance of the Fast Track Pro, would I be able to use 2 mics (to the same track, L & R) AND also use the two line inputs (to another track), or would ALL the inputs just go to one stereo track?
Bruce
My hardware choice requires 7 lbs of pull.
3-1/2 if you cock it.
LOL, btw, the other guy cut my hand during the foil / sword fight during Hamlet and it got all over my white puffy 'blouse', and dripped down my arm, and everyone thought it was a cool effect. Good thing it was the last performance, needed 12 stitches later.
Great memories, I should post some pics of that performance from the yearbook on my website. The football team QB was Hamlet until the week before when they ditched him and put me in. Huge fight amongst the non nerds. I was the AV/tech for Physics total nerd, who setup the labs for physics, and passed the Senior physics 3 years to soon. I remember we had a 10 foot slide rule on the wall that worked.
Long time ago....
Here in the States, we had an 11 foot slide rule.
That's just bad. LOL.
Sure dates us.. the big slide rule in the class room.
i tried to explain that to my 22 year old son who does not believe me. A computer on the wall....
It think it was 2 metres. LOL.
Help! I think my questions from 5:28 PM got lost amidst foiling and slide ruling. I also have an engineering degree and once learned to use a slide rule years ago...
An engineer should be able to spec their own sound device.
I'm an engineer also. EE
One more question and I'm going to have to bill you for the referral.
Because an engineer should be able to spec their own sound device.
--Mac said that
PGMusic forum member "Seamus" posted this great tip for using USB Audio Devices with Windows this morning.
I thought it apropos to cut and paste it here:
Quote:
Quote:
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I have an M-Audio Black Box which will mix a guitar & microphone together to a USB port.
Thanks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use the same device. Aside from one little issue a while back, it has been set it and forget it. I use it as my standard soundcard, and can plug the guitar in any time. Have also used the mic.
Someone asked about USB. The m-audio website documents a little fix which cured an issue for me. A problem with USB ports - perhaps the problem - is that powersaving is turned on by default. This means that some committe at Microsoft came to a decision about saving the .01 miliamps of power to the USB port when "no activity" is taking place - based upon some stupid algorythm. Long story short, it would work fine then it would disappear. After I learned how to disable power-saving for the particular USB port always connected to the black box - i've never had a problem with it.
Google m-audio black box USB and it should take you there.
OK here is the link:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=6a9f49d7baa4fcc087d25acbdd34f27f
Problems with USB devices - USB Root Hub Power Management problems (XP)
Q: My M-Audio USB Audio- or MIDI interface fails to install, doesn't work after installation, or drops out of the system every now and then. What could be the cause of this?
A: A common reason for such problems is the Power Management function of the USB Root Hub. Under Windows XP, disabling the Power Management for all USB Root Hubs in your system should resolve this problem:
1. Open the Device Manager (Start-> right click on "My Computer", click on "Properties" -> Hardware -> Device Manager)
2. Look under the category Universal Serial Bus controllers and find the USB Root Hub.
3. Right click and select Properties, go to the Power Management tab
4. Uncheck the box "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power." and click "OK".
Repeat this for each of the USB Root Hubs shown in the Device Manager.
Hotlink to the actual post (with live hotlinks to the references) here:
http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD
Cut and paste the directions to a file stored on your computer for later reference and use.
--Mac
Mac,
Thanks for all the helpful input - I think this will really help getting one of these usb devices to work without hopefully chucking the whole thing. The warning about power management is greatly appreciated. I searched these forums, but think I only went back 1-2 years, so didn't find that.
I have a degree in engineering (chemical), but have never actually been an engineer. Seems kind of funny to consider that, but I doubt I'm the only person who ended up in some field outside their undergraduate degree.
I'm also certainly no computer guru. Again, appreciate your input.
Bruce
My undergraduate degree was a BSc Hons in Business Computing Systems and I am not working in that field but I am in Business, I use Computing and PG software is one hell of a system, as far as I am concerned.
I got her Phd. In general life. My wife is amazed at the cr** I know. The P stands for Piled. the h for high. And the d is for deep.
I did get one of my polished silver medals with my name on the rim from Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. She couldn't make it in person so I got to go meet her Canadian representative at Rideau Hall. They have nice hors d'oevres, and wine was nice. I got that for being a good boy for 20 years, never got in trouble once. I think the next time she comes to Canada she should drop by and suck some maple syrup with the family and I and she could polish the medal.
