Hi,
If you have 2 mins 53 secs to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on my latest song. It's all BIAB accompaniment with TC Helicon harmony (via Realband). The style I used was _MDBALC2.STY.
The Brightest Day Regards,
Noel
Noel,
It sounds good here. I'll have to audit that style.
Is this a romantic or gospel song? Perhaps it could be either?
Happy New Year!
Don S.
Both nicely written and also nicely sung.
Well it sure is an upbeat happy feel good song my friend. Besides that I liked the structure, lyric and performance. I am on my second listen as I type this reply.
Happy New Year!
Thanks for having a listen!
Curmudgeon: Don, thank you! Brenda and I wrote the lyrics from a "relationship" perspective. We hadn't even considered the gospel aspect. Following up on your comment, though, I am tending to think that I should tweak this a bit and also have a gospel version. That's a great idea
Jazzmandan: Thanks for the compliments! I just keep on plugging away and practising - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Dan C: Dan, I appreciate your thoughts. I never think of myself as a performer but I think electronics can help a great deal in that regard.
All the best for 2010 and beyond!
Noel
So happy and upbeat! Good job with the TCH. Nice mix. I really like it Noel. Well done.
Josie
Hi Josie, thanks for taking time to have a listen. I appreciate your positive comments. I'm slowly getting the hang of TC Helicon! BTW, I am presently listening to your song, "Simple People Living in Hard Times". It's very catchy and really well presented! Is that a professional demo or a group you work with? It's a great sound.
Great mix outstanding vox!
This went into my keeper folder so fast that it left skid marks on my monitor.
Two thumbs up!
Hahahahaha
Thanks for your vote of confidence, Mario. Mixing is always a bit of a challenge for me. I've taken Mac's advise from a couple of months back when he wrote about mixing at volumes on the quiet side. It works for me and stops my ears from getting tired, too!
Hi, Noel -
I really enjoyed that. Very upbeat!
Noel,
Well it was a overcast, drizzly day until I played this one -
Great job
This is a really nice song, very well composed! I guess that you have worked on it over and over again, am I right? :-) The lyrics, and the song in general, is very catchy! It has the qualities that burns through, if it's an old 45 or a bedroom recording! Congrats my friend!
Very Nice lyrics, and very nice track. Thanks for sharing!
My Music My Blog
jford: John, thanks for taking time out to have a listen. Glad you liked it.
Powderman: Powderman, I appreciate your comments. I didn't know it rained in Texas
Whenever I see pictures of your state on telly, it doesn't seem to have too much greenery! Mind you, much of Australia is probably the same. In Melbourne right at the time I'm typing this, the temperature is 102 F. As we're heading into the middle of summer right now, there's plenty of brightly shining days!
stratocater: Thanks for having a listen. You're right. It did take a bit of time. Firstly, my co-lyricist and I got some rough lyrics together. I used those to come up with a chord progression and the melody (these came together pretty quickly). I then worked on getting the right lyrics and massaging them into shape so that they sat properly with the melody - that took a bit of time. All done in the spare bedroom between meals
PGFantastic: I am grateful for your comments, Robert. Thank you.
I wish you all good fortune in 2010,
Noel
How does your half of the world look next year, Noel? Hotter than ^&*#@ by the way you tell it.
I'm glad someone is still writing some happy songs. Good job - nice blend - great when it comes together like that. Give yourselves a collective pat on the back.
Cheers to the New Year. Ian
All I'm getting from that link, Noel...
Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to obtaining a connection from the pool. This may have occurred because all pooled connections were in use and max pool size was reached.
Hi Ian,
Thank you for taking the time to have a listen. Whenever possible, I try to write "happy" songs because they usually make me feel better
As I've said before, mixing is a challenge for me and it's great when comes together painlessly! As for the weather, it's been raining for the last two days but that sure is a good relief from the 100+ F temperatures of the preceding couple of days. I have a friend in Japan who was building a snowman when I was here sloshing around in a pool of perspiration. Isn't it amazing how Earth's 23 degree tilt changes things so much (and the sun is 93 million miles away or thereabouts)! Such a small tilt, such a big distance, but such amazing ramifications
Okie dokie, that's enough philosophising.
Hope you have a terrific 2010.
All the best,
Noel
Same as Mglinert here. Timeout expired...
Hi Marc and abaudio,
I've just tried the site. It's down at the moment.
Hope you have a brilliant 2010
Noel
Noel-
Nice job. I really enjoyed it, and well mixed.
Thanks for posting it!
Noel,
Nice sounding song! How about a description of how you did it?
Are your vocals doctored any? (I ask because they sound pretty good... better than a lot of songs posted by home recording enthusiasts. )
What parts were BIAB/RT? What parts did you perform? What kind of mixing or mastering tricks did you use?
Enquiring minds want to know.
;-)
Hi SaxMarc,
Thanks for your encouraging comments. The mix is probably more good luck than good planning! Still, little by little, things seem to be coming together for me.
All the best in 2010!
Noel
Hi Pat,
Thanks for having a listen. I appreciate your positive feedback. I'll document how I approached putting the song together and then I'll post it here. Just give me a couple of days
Hope 2010 is amazing for you!
Noel
Better get those shades out, Noel - its too bright in here with that song!
I like it very much. Bit of a 60s style throwback
Well done
So, come on. Share! How and what?
Hi Noel96, A bit late to the show but I'd like to say well done.
I think that the sentiment in the song is just right for a new year (a new beginning)
Best regards
Michee
Thanks Sam. As soon as I get a moment, I'm going to document what I did and what I used for Pat Marr. I'll post it here so you can have a read too.
Happy New Year to you
Noel
Hi Michee,
Thank you
I'm glad you enjoyed the song!
Happy 2010
Noel
.
Hi Noel!
I don't think the overdriven guitar fits your 'hapiness' theme. It is is not a bright sound. Put it way in the back, perhaps, to add some complexity. Where it is now it kind of takes over the tone of the song and works against your positive message. Try adding an instrument with a sweeter sound - flute, maybe. Maybe a rhodes. A very little bit of a GM pad playing whole notes might thicken up the chorus nicely.
Push all of the instruments WAY back. They are crowding out your lovely voice, and your message.
There are conflicting degrees of "brightness" in your lyrics. First you say you feel "pretty good" and "all right," which falls short of "the brightest ever been." Which is it? Just "pretty good" or "brightest ever?" Make it consistent.
I want to hear a reason for your exuberance. You mention "youve given me a recharge." Who is it that has done this for you - a lover? a little child? mother nature? God? How about a hint as to what happened?
Who is the "you" in "when you walked in?" If you were to tell me a little bit more about what happened, I could share your happiness more easily.
From where I sit in California, I think I detect a bit of an accent. The word 'shone' is not used in this part of the world. Particulars of language like these give your singing a distinctive quality and add interest.
.
Hi Flatfoot,
Thanks for taking the time to have a listen. I also appreciate all the time you've taken to process and type your thoughts
My overall concept of the song is that a guy/gal was feeling miserable and expecting to be miserable for some time but then tomorrow came along carrying with it someone who cared and suddenly the day looked a whole heap brighter for the guy/gal.
I'll have a read through your comments and weigh them up against how I hear the song in my head. You've given me ideas.
Also, thanks for the compliment about my singing. I don't see myself as a singer. Such a compliment coming from you, whom I regard as an excellent singer, is very flattering
Hope 2010 is brilliant for you,
Noel
OK site is up now, Noel
The song structure and vox are strong throughout.
The backing track does sound kind of busy. For the reasons given by Flatfoot, I would also be inclined to lose the overdriven guitar.
All the best for 2010 mate
Hi Marc,
Thanks for listening. I appreciate and respect your thoughts. It was a fun song to put together. I'm booked in for an internet session with Craig Bickhardt tomorrow to get some feedback on this song. Craig has had a few Nashville number one hits. It will be interesting to hear what he says about it.
Hope you have a sensational 2010,
Noel
Much enjoyed, particularly like the mix of background vocals. The lead vocal could perhaps use a little delay and reverb for more character.
Hi George,
I appreciate your having a listen
Thank you. Glad you liked it! The background vocals are entirely what TCHelicon did to my voice when I asked it to harmonise me. Learning to use that aspect of BIAB was worth its weight in diamonds!
All the best, Noel
Very nice song Noel!
A keeper for sure.
Though you sang the song fine, I don't think your voice stands out enough. It has a little nasal sound and sounds a little "muffled" Perhaps try some eq, dynamics and a tad more reverb to it.
Great song, well performed. Good job!
Hey Mike,
Thank you for taking time to have a listen. When it comes to singing, I'm certainly not in your league! That's a dream and a half away for me. Also, thanks for your thoughts
Regards,
Noel
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I went back and listened to the harmony. Nicely done.
I haven't been able to get a good sound out of the TC Helicon yet. I am now encouraged to go back and keep trying.
Do you have any particular secret about using the harmony that you can share?
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Hi Flatfoot,
I'm in the process of documenting what I did for Pat Marr and WienSam. I'll post it here as soon as I'm done. TC Helicon is worth playing around with. It's quick, and potentially very good.
Noel
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Quote:
...Helicon is worth playing around with. It's quick, and potentially very good...>>
Not at my house. So far I have not got a sound that seems natural at all. And it takes forever to generate. I'll be happy to find out anything you have to tell me.
Oh it's really nice and amazing song ,great job dude. I must appreciates you for this. I will definitely download this. Well I love music and feel good to join this discussion. I used to download my favorite songs using freemp3 download toolbar and enjoy listening them. Music is really best way to entertains us.
Noel,
An unexpected pleasure to write to someone on the forum right here in my own town.
I also liked your song and your vocal delivery. The gtr parts are pretty convincing, if that's actually BIAB accompaniament. Well done.
John
cristino: I'm glad you liked the song. I had fun writing it. It's good when people also have fun listening to it.
Shackman: How strange that we have to travel around the globe via Canada simply to say hello! You're the first person that I have met on the discussion board from Melbourne! I'm sure there are probably others, they just don't admit to it! Apart from my singing, the song is 99% BIAB/RB and 1% TCHelicon. There's no doubt about it, BIAB/RB are amazing!
This post is for Pat Marr, Wiensam and Flatfoot who expressed an interest in knowing how I put different bits of
Brightest Day together. I think this covers the important parts.
Regards,
Noel
1. How I used BIAB to develop the song “Brightest Day”- Open the demo for -C2_LOS.STY
- Mute the Melody and Soloist as I only want to hear the accompaniment.
- Play it over and over until a rhythmical lyric phrase enters my head. (The phrase that first came to me was “Sunrise, bringing me a new day” - the song's first line.)
- Use this phrase to develop the rest of the melodic rhythm of the verse.
- Modify the chord progression to reflect the structure of the verse.
- Develop a workable chorus – maybe temporary, maybe not – from the ideas outlined in the verse. (At this stage the chorus and verse are only rhythmic. No real attempt has been made at melodies.)
- Structure the chord progression in the chorus to suit the rhythmical outline.
- Transpose the key of the accompaniment to one that suits.
- Play the accompaniment over and over saying the words in rhythm and attempt some melodies. Gradually, melodies develop.
- Work on verse 2.
- Work on bridge.
- Song is done.
2. How I used RB to develop the arrangement.- Open BIAB file in RB.
- Record vocal track for TC Helicon. Since this track is going to be the basis for the harmony, I do not use vibrato or vocal “frills”. I need it straight and as true to the note as possible.
- Run TC Helicon using a “Tenor voice” selection and choosing the harmony as 1 up and 1 down. (Occasionally I use 2 up and 1 down; this time I did not).
- Generate the harmony by choosing to write the parts to individual tracks. (I kept all voices in the center position between M and F. I also lowered the volume of the dry voice to infinity.)
- Mute harmony tracks.
- Use Realtrack to generate a lead instrumental solo to act as fill in for various bars when there is no vocal. This solo may or may not be part of the final arrangement.
- Export all tracks (panned to center) to individual wav files so that I can bring the arrangement together in Sonar Home Studio 6.
3. How I used Sonar Home Studio to mix the song- Load in all tracks.
- Create a stereo field for the accompaniment and mix a good sounding accompaniment.
- Use the vocal lead from RB as a scratch track to guide me in recording a new vocal lead – this time using vibrato, etc.
- Record three other lead vocal tracks – one after the other. (Doing it “one after the other” means that these four tracks will all have the similar voice texture and I now have one foundation track and three other tracks from which to copy and replace out-of-tune phrases. This is usually plenty to work with.)
- Using copy/paste and cross-fading compile a lead vocal track. (It is very important to have non-destructive editing on as it is necessary to drag tracks out to create cross-fading between the pasted vocal phrases and the lead vocal. It also helps to match words, etc. Without cross-fading, clicks, etc, can occur.)
- Determine how I want the harmony to work and use volume envelopes on each voice. (At this stage, the harmony tracks are for the whole song. I remove the sections that I won't be using. I also aim to keep the harmony minimal – especially at the beginning of the song when people first hear it. I do this so that the listener doesn't hear it long enough to realise that it's electronic.)
- When arranging the harmony, vary volumes slightly for each phrase. For example, the lower part might sing the first phrase a little louder than the upper part but sing the second phrase a little softer than the upper part. This helps to create realism. The volume envelopes in Sonar are perfect to do this and to give the nuances I require. Also, the fact that a new lead vocal was created for the harmony means that the lead will be slightly out of time with the harmony at some points and this helps to add to the reaslism.)
- Mix at normal listening volume on external speakers. In fact, I tend to mix a little softer than I'd normally listen to music. Mac suggested this a while back and it makes mixing so much easier.
Noel96,
I'm honestly not particularly blown away by the song because lyrically it doesn't take me anywhere. I know you are jazzed about someone and give them credit for brightening your day, but in almost 3 minutes of my life I'm not told what they did, why, or how you've been so affected by them.
Verse, chorus, verse, whatever the structure is, the only clue that moves the song forward (lyrically) at all is that yesterday (I assume metaphorically representing some period of time in the past) things were worse (emotionally) but now because of this love interest they are much better.
The production is awfully busy as well. Back off the volumes (overall) on instrumentation, and perhaps bring up the percussion with some judicious application of EQ in the high mid and low end ranges so that that cuts through, and it won't fight with your vocal as the guitar currently does. The same is true of bass guitar. That is in a range that you can afford to punch through and round out your dynamic range more fully without interfering with your vocal.
Sometimes, no matter how long it took and how much we labored over it, the best thing to do is throw out all but the strongest parts and do a total rewrite.
It's all just my opinion, but I have had over 100 songs published (and counting).
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for giving me 3 mins of your time. I appreciate your thoughts and I'm grateful that you took the time to express them. I can understand where you are coming from but that is not how I hear the song. I recently had the work reviewed by Craig Bickhardt - an experienced Nashville songwriter with three number ones under his belt. His views were completely the opposite to the views you have expressed. But that's what gives music the power it has. Different things work (or don't work) in different ways for different people.
Congratulations on all your published songs. That's an excellent effort. I'd love to hear some. Do you have them readily accessible anywhere on the internet?
Regards,
Noel
Noel,
thanks for the detailed explanation! It is helpful to hear about how others develop and complete an idea. I greatly appreciate the time you took to write it down for us! (and for all the other people who will read through the archives in the future)
Now, having read all that, I'm going back to listen to the song again...
Noel96,
I am seriously trying to be your friend by telling you the honest truth, as I see it. I do not believe that Craig is doing so (of course, my opinion). The bright side of your song is that it is catchy (hooky) and sort of infectious. If you improved on the story line (lyrically) and made the production changes I mentioned you could have an outstanding song. That is called rewriting, and the best writers often do it dozens of times before they have a gem.
As to your question, look for me on broadjam as Jeff Payne from Texas. I'm just really breaking into secular music but we've already had a number one bluegrass on there. My worship songs are sung in churches throughout the U.S.
I'd rather massage your song than your ego, as it appears you have real talent, and you could write something substantial if you refuse to quit too soon.
"I'm just really breaking into secular music"
Worship music is lyrically different than pop/rock music. I think this is why your critiques analyze the lyrical content of songs.
Some of us write for God. Others write for listeners. Still others write for ourselves.
Moo
Quote:
Some of us write for God. Others write for listeners. Still others write for ourselves.
Moo
even beyond lyrical preference, there is no single standard for what makes a song appealing. Some listen for meaningful lyrics, and pay no attention to the musicianship or recording quality. Some only like to hear blazing solos, and care nothing for the words at all. Others pay special notice to production details. (and many more preferences in between)
The music industry is fixated on a specific formula for musical success. Those who are trying to break into that world are well-advised to learn and adhere to those rules. The down side is that such rigid adherence to a paradigm eventually leads to a bunch of songs that all sound alike.
If you don't care about breaking into "the industry", you have more leeway to experiment and do what pleases you and the people who are your natural audience.
There seems to be a naturally occurring phenomenon of outsiders who break the rules and discover a new sound that eventually gains wide acceptance and isn't an "outsider" thing anymore.
It begs the question of whether the logical left brain should control the creative right brain activity, or whether the creative right brain activity should redefine the logic that drives the logical left brain...
What do YOU think?
Pat Marr,
I agree with you. That being acknowledged a sow's ear is still not a silk purse. I am not saying this song is a sow's ear, just that rules are made to be broken mostly by those who understand them in the first place.
The lyrical and production critiques I gave this brother are valid and basically still apply. Paying attention to details such as these does not make homogeneous, formulaic music. These kinds of details could make the difference between music your friends compliment and for whom the audience is very narrow, and music that enjoys broader acceptance and, therefore, has greater impact.
Please remember, before you respond defensively, that I started this post by writing, "I agree with you." Yes, this is all somewhat subjective, and "in the eye of the beholder," but (again not referring to this particular song) just because some people like crap, that doesn't mean we should all strive to produce more of it.
People in the grown up world, particularly song writers, accept and grow from criticism given with the right spirit and in the right way.
"just because some people like crap, that doesn't mean we should all strive to produce more of it."
....and an example of "crap" might be what?
Moo
Quote:
Dan C: Dan, I appreciate your thoughts. I never think of myself as a performer but I think electronics can help a great deal in that regard.
All the best for 2010 and beyond!
Noel
Noel,
No matter if you think of yourself as a performer or not, it's what comes across to, and what your audience leaves with. And on this tune I left with a good feeling because of the lyric and music, but most of all beacuse of the heartfelt "performance" of yours interperting the lyric and the music. And regarding of what electronics are used, the bottom-line is that you are interperting notes and/or singing the lyric with human feelings. The electronics (to me anyway) is the frame of painting, while the painting itself is the performance. Now the frame can always be beautiful while the actual painting can run from anywhere from a piece of crap to a masterpiece, and everything inbetween.
I think it is flatfoot who says "when talent in the box is ready" etc. Then I might buy in to electronics being able to duplicate or replace the "painting" itself. Until then . . . nice performance man!
Later,
Quote:
...look for me on broadjam as Jeff Payne from Texas
Thanks, Jeff. I enjoyed listening to the three songs I found there I congratulate you on each song's fine production.
Regards,
Noel
Hi Dan C.
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. I'm still smiling
Glad you liked listening to the song. It was written to be a fun/happy musical experience and I'm pleased that it worked for you.
All the best,
Noel
Thanks Noel96.
Mooman, I would not feel comfortable giving an example of "crap." I don't see how that criticism could in any way be constructive. I personally wouldn't bother commenting on a thread related to a song from a writer I did not feel exhibited the potential to write some really good, if not great music.
I commented about Noel96's song because I think he shows some real talent and, like I said, his tune was "hooky," which is a very good thing. A great number of the songs I've heard from forum members are not infectious. My own wife said, "There you go humming that song again." That's a huge plus for a songwriter. She was referring to Noel96's Brighter Day song, by the way.
Quote:
My wife said, "There you go humming that song again ... referring to Noel96's Brightest Day
Thanks for passing that on, Jeff. It made me chuckle. As I said before, I really do appreciate your comments and the fact that you took the trouble to type them up. Moreover, I know that they were given with a sincere, good heart. They have certainly given me "food for thought" and I know that that is what you intended. Again, thank you.
Happy songwriting,
Noel
About the song:
I like the chorus the best. It's bouncy, catchy and positive.
The hardest part is the bridge. It can be hard to write a good bridge. This bridge kinda slows things down. That's what needs to be re-worked. The structure is good, and getting back to the hook as quickly as possible is good thinking!!!
I have written only one decent bridge in my life. It is a real art.
It's nice listening to a bright, positive song.
Moo
Thanks for having a listen, Moo. I'll take your comments on-board regarding the bridge. I'm with you, they can be a challenge to get right. Still, practice makes perfect!
All the best with your songs,
Noel
Quote:
People in the grown up world, particularly song writers, accept and grow from criticism given with the right spirit and in the right way.
Hi Jeff,
I don't take any offense from your observations (not do I mean any). I only meant to offer a counterpoint to your point.
I agree with much of what you say. I went back and listened to Noel's song with your observations in mind, and I think you suggested some things that would be useful. The guitars do compete with the vocals, for example. But that gets into the realm of fine tuning. Most of the people on this forum HAVEN'T published 100 songs. Refinement of any craft happens by degree, and what is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism (notice I didn't say VALID criticism) varies at different points in the learning curve.
I don't agree with the mentality that Every kid gets an A on his report in order to avoid hurting anybody's feelings... in order to improve people DO need valid input, not false praise. Yet, even in a harsh and competitive environment we don't judge the undergrad by the same standards that we judge the professional. We judge the student by the skills he is expected to have mastered at his level. Most of the people in this forum are hobbyists, making music mostly for personal enjoyment, and that should be considered when offering strategies for improvement.
Regarding the topic of giving criticism in the right spirit:
It could probably be argued that starting out with the phrase "I was not exactly blown away by this song" was unnecessarily insulting, and not consistent with the goal of offering constructive criticism. Likewise the comments about crap and sow's ears. But people have different thresholds for that sort of thing. Noel's responses have all been quite gracious, so I must assume he's OK with your critique. Bottom line, the helpful stuff would have been just as helpful without the other statements.
Pat Marr,
I agree with that. Noel96 my apologies if you were offended.
Pat: I liked reading your words. You have very eloquently described the overall philosophy that, from my experience, is present in this forum. That's one of the reasons I post songs here; people care. The other main reason that inspires me to post is that it might give others some ideas about how they also might (or might not) like to do things. I know that I've picked up quite a few tips by to listening to others' works and reading the comments that forum-users post.
Jeff: No offense taken.
Noel
Jeff,
I just went and listened to your songs. Very nice indeed! You have put an enormous amount of effort into your music, and it shows. I wish you much success not only in Nashville but beyond. Particular kudos for your work in worship music. I'm glad that such talent is focused in ways that not only entertain but also encourage people in their faith.
I am also glad to see your willingness to encourage others musically. Your education, experience and discerning spirit prepare you eminently for the task of helping others to understand the challenges inherent to the task of making excellent music.
I see you as a good and helpful person.
Quote:
That's one of the reasons I post songs here; people care. The other main reason that inspires me to post is that it might give others some ideas about how they also might (or might not) like to do things. I know that I've picked up quite a few tips by to listening to others' works and reading the comments that forum-users post.
Noel
I agree wholeheartedly!
The biggest detriment to learning is fear of screwing up. If we can make this forum a place where people aren't embarrassed to put their stuff out there for others to hear (and I think it already is such a place) then everybody at every level of expertise benefits from the exchange.
Quote:
The production is awfully busy as well. Back off the volumes (overall) on instrumentation, and perhaps bring up the percussion with some judicious application of EQ in the high mid and low end ranges so that that cuts through, and it won't fight with your vocal as the guitar currently does. The same is true of bass guitar. That is in a range that you can afford to punch through and round out your dynamic range more fully without interfering with your vocal.
Jeff,
I went back to the song and listened to it in light of what you said above. You've given me great advice and I'm presently working on it. Thanks for taking the time to help me get a bit better. (One step at a time, so they say.)
Regards,
Noel