Anyone here thought of it.
With the way real tracks uses real instruments I think there is a great open door to make backing tracks that would be better than any midi file backing tracks company out there.
It would take a few of us and it would take a while to get going. But with the material in real tracks and great wisdom and talent of a few folks here, we could do a good business and work from home doing what we love.
Anyone interested? Anyone have any ideas. Of course we would do it all legit and pay the royalties and license fees.
The backing tracks aspect is a unique idea.
If you mean 3rd party Real Tracks, yes I've discussed this here on the forums. A huge need if you think about it.
That was the carrot.
Here is the stick>While it is possible to make 3rd party (ie your own) Real Drum tracks, it is not yet possible with Real Tracks.
Maybe Peter will decide to make this available, maybe not.
Food for thought and a good thread, hope Peter is reading......
Ed
No, he is saying create backing tracks to standard and popular songs for others to use.. (I think)
I don't think you'll satisfy the customer's desire to hear the proprietary riffs and hooks that are in many popular songs with only RealTracks involved.
And then there's the matter of licensing and copyrights. Not a hurdle, but certainly something that must be addressed beforehand and handled properly.
I think the licensing issue won't be as difficult as those riffs and hooks, though, they may prove to be the kill.
--Mac
We have enough talent around here to do any hooks or riffs. In fact I could do anything on electric or acoustic guitar as some others here can.
I could also do almost any background vocals or harmonies.
Most of the tracks on the market are no where near professional. I think there is a real need-
1 single vocalists need them who don't play instruments.
2 duos use them to add instrumental flavor.
3 due to cost cutting measures and duo to the economy small venues find it hard to afford bands.
4 there are very few or no companies producing ass kicking professional backing tracks.
We could do it and I've already proven it with some of my own tracks that I've done.
5 once you get a good web site going you can get the attention of advertisers.
I know we have many great instrumentalists here and even folks with web design experience.
I think we have everything we need.
I'm just dreaming here. But anything is possible.
Anyone who is interested pm me and we will consider options and possibilities.
I"d be interested. I've done a few with a combo of midi and real tracks, and sold a few, although they were not perfect with the proper hooks etc. There is an immense amount of talent here, the business details could and most likely would get a bit sticky.
Here is a sample of a tune with no melody line, this is actulally midi tracks converted to audio, with some effects for mixdown and master.
http://www.box.net/shared/ooj6oqqrjeJust to see if this is the basic thing you had in mind.
Rob
I have been doing this with BB for years (V9), creating back tracks for folks originals. Using SF & PSR Keyboards some of it turns out pretty good.
I am of course talking about RHYTHM section (drums, bass, guitar, keys) type of tracks, not and lead or melody instruments, tho that is a thought with the new RT & RD....
Tho the RT/RD are fantastic so far, the shots/holds/stops & some chord changes are just not quite there yet. So there is some editing to get them where I need them (I am working on a backing tracks right now for a friend)
I will watch this thread with interest for sure....
just an idea.
some big studios make lotsa buks by creating backing traks for songwriters
original songs where the songwriter doesnt wanna set up his/her own rig//daw
and of course worry bout the technical aspects of such.
try advertising in your local area something like...
"backing traks service for songwriters" etc etc.
many of us are working on song list of cover tunes for live playing. I have a growing set list, and i am now going back over them to add Rts and RDs where appropiate. I can't see using all RTs, as this would not allow for the hooks and such. And i am struggling with finding real good midi instruments to use at times. But it is getting better.
The one issue i see is that once you solve the licensing issues, then you have to divide the profits (if there are any) and the more cooks in the kitchen the slimmer the pot becomes.
Most professional midi backing tracks run about $8-10 a piece. I am with Mac, if you don't have the songs signature hook-line-and-sinker, you are wasting your time. Everyone knows about CDG's and Karaoke now, they are on the cheap as well. So, YOUR backing tracks would need to sound awfully close to the original artist's sound in order to be competitive. The RT's are great, but they only go so far in uniqueness to sound.
I have thought about doing an internet business for Music Backing Tracks for a long time now. The other problem is, you can get 10,000 midi files/backing tracks on E-Bay for about $5.
Maybe if you could program some of the songs for an established online site, like Midi-Hits etc...., you may be able to make a dollar or two that way?????
But, don't let us hold you back. Go for it !!! Might be able to do something about those cheezy backing tracks that ARE out there
Trax
If you are trying to make backing tracks using ONLY real tracks, then I'd agree that it would be hard to incorporate the signature licks...
But In my experience, RB has several features that make it particularly GOOD at capturing the signature hooks:
1) it has an excellent way to extract chords and tempo map the original song so you can use it as a guide while you add other tracks to the mix
2) after you create your RB version, you can blend the original tune in and out of the mix wherever the vocals drop out... (and the signature licks almost ALWAYS fill in the spaces where the vocals drop out. ) so you end up with a song that is 25% original recording and 75% RB, blended together in perfect unison.
Whereas you MIGHT get away with that if you were using the backing track in your own low-profile gigs, you certainly wouldn't be able to rip the original recording and sell it as your own backing track.
Using this technique I have made some backing tracks for my own use that sound just like the original, but without the vocals. If making realistic backing tracks is your main goal, RB is amazingly good at it... better than ANY other software I've ever used for the same purpose. And you can do it VERY QUICKLY too... depending on the speed of your computer, in less than 30 minutes you can import an MP3, run it througth ACW to tempo map it and extract chords, add real tracks for each rhythm instrument, then crossfade the tracks at appropriate spots to get rid of the vocals, and presto... a cover song with all the original instrumentation.
The trick is to make SURE you have the chords and tempo map right BEFORE you start adding real tracks. And you need to be judicious about picking which real tracks to use... but depending how you crossfade, the real tracks will be behind your vocals so the differences won't stand out.. and when you stop singing the original song comes to the forefront.. so, it becomes quite seamless.
Try it. It is very easy! (but better not try to sell them because I don't think that would work out as well for you as it does for the lawyers...)
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there are very few or no companies producing ass kicking professional backing tracks.
This is completely wrong, you just haven't looked in the right places.
I know there's tons of unbelievably good Karaoke tracks available because I've heard them. My sister does big Karaoke competitions where they have a full blown Vegas type set up with a 2000 watt PA and crowds in the 500-1000 range. All the singers have backing tracks that are done by live studio players, little or no midi at all. I'm talking about the classic Sinatra songs with the full orchestra that sound so awesome it sounds like the producers somehow got the original masters remixed without the vocal, they're that good. One guy did whatever that famous Ricky Martin tune is that didn't just sound like a cover band, it sounded like his band and another one did that Miami Sound Machine Conga whatever tune and same thing, the orchestration was perfect. There's a sax player here in LA named Andy Suzuki who's been working with David Benoit lately who made his living doing covers for Muzak for 10 years. He was a full time staff player for them and just made a regular salary like 40 grand a year or something. These guys have all the transcriptions of all the popular tunes note for note perfect and play them perfect too. If you talking pop covers, they're readily available.
Having said this, it's possible that these great cuts may not be available as minus one's if you don't need a vocal backing track but need a minus the piano or other instrument track so you can play along. Also, these karaoke tracks may only be for top 40 stuff, other material in different styles may not be available either so there could be some opportunity there, you'd have to research that.
I agree with Mac though, the big problem is getting the true sound of the original down cold. That's not as easy as some may think. Equipment is a big deal, not just the skill of a player. If you're doing a Deep Purple tune, you need a real B3 properly set up, not a software emulator and so on for lots of tunes that had a signature guitar sound or whatever. How many good blues players can really lay down some killer SRV stuff with his sound so a person might think, wow that sounds like SRV? That's not simply good talent, that's "headline a tribute band in Vegas" talent. Don't even talk about horn sections. You can get some pretty good local horn players together and they're not going to sound like Chicago no matter what but those Karaoke tracks do. One of the competitors did 25 or 6 to 4 and again like the other tracks I mentioned, it sounded so close to Chicago you would think they took the original masters and removed the vocal. It makes no sense but I almost think they did...nah
Bob
It depends on what the backing tracks are to be used for - for singers, professional CD+G karaoke tracks cannot be improved. I know - I have over 10,000 of them. For musicians who want -1, Melodyne is probably a far better tool as you can just remove the instrument you want removed from the original track. If you want to sing and play, then remove the instrument from the CD+G backing track.
A lot of professional singers poo-poo karaoke tracks but they are very happy to talk about 'half playbacks'. Frankly, they are one and the same. If you just paly the audio and do not show the lyrics on a screen, where is the difference?
RTs and RDs are great for working on your own original material and coming up with great demos or even adding a missing instrument part to an almost finished track.
Don't bother to re-invent the wheel, at least that's my motto
If it's something you really want to do,then pick One song - post it here - and ask for comments.
Really,it's the only way you will know if it will work.
And then you will know whether or not to continue.
Happy New Year everyone.
Alan
I think there is a lot that can be done and still needs to be done.
Jazzman I do know what you mean. There are good tracks out there.
But I'm not talking about karaoke or karaoke singers.
These karaoke tracks are not what most musicians are looking for. Yes I do know about companies that sell professional backing tracks. Some are good but some are not that good. I don't want to sound like Chicago. Then again I don't want to use some cheesy midi track. There is no middle ground.
I think most have missed my point. Pat you are on the right track.
How many professional singers or bands you know want to use karaoke tracks. Then you sound like a karaoke singer.
Hows many want to use midi files but they have to because there is nothing better out there.
If you walk into a music store and ask how many know of PG music or RTs what answer will you get. Maybe 1 percent. Just think if every musician, talent agency, music studio knew what they were?
Think back to the time Joni Mitchell came out with Big Yellow Taxi. Since then how many bands have covered the song. I think over 500. Just imagine how many little groups out there would like to do the song or a song like it in there own way.
I'll bet none of them know about Band in a Box or RTs. Just think of the possibilities.
There is a new trend coming.
How many great songs on the radio have you heard done in a reggae style.
Country roads, Wide World etc. Just think of how many groups would love to do a cover of one of their favorite songs in another way to suit their own taste and style.
Or even better still how many groups or musicians are looking for new material. With RTs we could set up original material in several different styles or make it available for people to order them in any style. We could even use demos provided by PG. In fact it could be a whole new segment added to the pg site.
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. Why not just add it to what is already there. I was hoping the pg folks were listening but maybe not.
If this sort of thing would be added to pg it could become the biggest music site on the net. A sort of "google" so to speak for musicians.
Just thinking here. It may or may not work but we may be missing out on a great opportunity here.
I agree with what you say, Ed. The thing is, how many different styles do you want - there are hundreds. For one song, the variation is enormous and it would be difficult to market unless you were to create to order.
Not trying to dissuade you but is it worth the effort?
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Create to order would be a big part of it.
Think about the possibilities here.
Then you could have original stuff for sale as well.
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I think most have missed my point. Pat you are on the right track.
Or even better still how many groups or musicians are looking for new material. With RTs we could set up original material in several different styles or make it available for people to order them in any style.
This is what I mentioned above, and has worked well. Now with all the RT/RD I now have I can see this expanding 10x in my little area! 
And thank you for your explanation of the rest, I really feel that you just might be on to something going for the "various styles" angle....Good Luck!
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For musicians who want -1, Melodyne is probably a far better tool as you can just remove the instrument you want removed from the original track. If you want to sing and play, then remove the instrument from the CD+G backing track.
Oh duhhh! That's a great point, Sam. I've been posting in several Melodyne threads the last few days and didn't even think of that.
Btw, what's your favorite source for those tracks?
Bob
SoundChoice are pretty good as are SunFly. There are others but these two companies are probably the industry leaders. Just Google 'CD+G Karaoke tracks'
If you want the lyrics to still show up, remember to make a copy of the backing track using a different filename and then edit the original file. The backing track MUST have the same as the lyric file. You could even run it through the ACW and add the chord names into the lyric file but that is a little more complicated, or create a new lyric track in the backing file and then use the karaoke window. There's more than one way to skin a rabbit, you know
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Anyone here thought of it.
With the way real tracks uses real instruments I think there is a great open door to make backing tracks that would be better than any midi file backing tracks company out there.
It would take a few of us and it would take a while to get going. But with the material in real tracks and great wisdom and talent of a few folks here, we could do a good business and work from home doing what we love.
Anyone interested? Anyone have any ideas. Of course we would do it all legit and pay the royalties and license fees.
Ed, hasn't this this market been served for some time by online companies like Comtracks, Hands On, and Hittrax who sell audio/MP3 backing tracks? Or have I misunderstood your suggesion?
John
Companies like the ones you mentioned are selling midi generated tracks. There are no real instruments.
It seems though the general consensus is that there are too many karaoke and backing type companies around already we may get lost in the shuffle even if we have something unique here.
All I know is Real Tracks did for me what no other company could have done.
What was accomplished with realtracks on your project was pretty amazing, Ed.
Listening now, after not doing so for a while, I have trouble remembering what is a realtrack and what isn't!
I am very happy it has been such a success for you already.
Well, this is a sample of what you'd be competing with:
Alan McPike Alan sells his track for about 5 pounds ($8) each. Check his site out, it's pretty impressive what he's doing. I'm sure you could get some pretty good ideas from it. Bottom line is you're going to have to sound this good if you want to make any money off of it. Good luck with your venture, knock'em dead.
This is an example of what's wrong with a lot of backing tracks, imho. The actual instruments especially the piano parts are very good but the drums totally suck. It appears he deliberately went for the electronic sound, no attempt at realism. I don't like the mix either. Good karaoke tracks are much, much better than this.
Bob
I think you folks could do better with the RT/RD.....
I don't know what others actually listened to, but I began with the Female 1 - 4XX songs, and all intros were fairly impressive to my aging ears, with use of strings especially so. I think he sets a pretty high standard, with what looks like a very extensive catalog ballads and jazz standards, although there could be weak links in particular genres, styles, etc... Also, for what it's worth, I heard no wind instruments, or guitar in anything, as though he sets his arrangements up for keys, bass and drums with string augmentation for most everything. What he uses, he uses well.
I just went thur the site at random, and tho I found the arrangements OK, the rhythm sections felt "stiff" to me....and of course this is all IMHO.
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Companies like the ones you mentioned are selling midi generated tracks. There are no real instruments.
No, man you're not going to the sites Sam recommended. He's our Karaoke expert on this forum. Some people in this thread think that somehow Karaoke is different from the backing tracks we're talking about. It's not, it's just a name. Check this out Sound Choice
This site has thousands of songs and it looks like they've got every popular artist from the last 50 years covered. These are most definitely full blown studio productions using live players like what I was talking about earlier. No midi here. I've only heard a few of them and they are gorgeous. Just type in Sinatra and then listen to the demo of My Funny Valentine and then type in Journey and listen to Be Good To Yourself. Of course I searched for Chicago and heard Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is. Then just for laughs I put in Tower of Power. No funk stuff but they have So Very Hard To Go. Awesome. Great playing including the horns, great production and background vocals too. This is just one site, there's lots of others.
If I was doing a single or duo for a living and needed a few hundred covers I would just buy them, not mess around trying to reinvent the wheel. Biab is great and a lot of fun especially if you like rolling your own but really other than that, why bother when this is available?
Now, I'm a live player and personally would never use these but all I'm saying is IF I were trying to really make a living out of this, then these tracks could be a good way to go. Every time I go to Vegas, most of the lounge acts are using these types of tracks. I hate it because I miss the live groups since I used to be in one of them at Harrah's but that's the reality of it. Singers with tracks. Sure, there's a few exceptions but mostly that's true.
You can't touch this sound with your computer and some software.
Bob