WEBMASTER: concern about the number of pages increase in forum

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Dear Webmaster,

I write because I am curious about the increase in the number of pages of songs in the User Forum. It used to be that there were only around six or so. Tonight I looked down and saw that it's now 18. Is this correct? There's now over 12 months of posts on display.

What concerns me is that by having my songs on-site for 3 or 4 times as long, the chance of my material potentially being ripped off is far greater.

I find myself wondering whether or not PG Music fully appreciates one of the aspects of copyright that is unique (for a short while at least) to a song's composer.

This aspect is that a composer has the exclusive right to choose who get's to first record his or her song PROVIDED the song has not been performed publicly (usually interpreted as meaning "for more than family and friends", as I understand it). Once a song has entered the public arena, the composer loses this right and any artist whatsoever is free to use the song for their projects without any consultation with the composer provided the artist pays the relevant copyright owner the required fees. (See the bottom of page 6 in the below pdf file.)

... copyright laws explained (pdf file)

This leads me to one aspect of my dilemma.

It is because of the above that I don't post completed works in the Users Forum. For me, this forum is about getting ideas that will help me take my song to the next level. That being said, though, the longer I leave a draft of a song available to public scrutiny, the more it could be argued that that draft is actually a final draft rather than a work in progress.

A second aspect of my dilemma is ...

I love to use BIAB to write original songs. It's an absolutely brilliant tool. I also get a bit of a kick out of letting others hear what I have done and I thoroughly enjoy sharing how I go about creating my works. As a consequence of help and advice from this forum in addition to my own study, I believe that my songs are getting a little better these days. I now have every wish to sell them. To this end, I've even had some recent success with publishers.

Because I wish to keep my material "fresh" for potential artists and publishers, I baulk at leaving my songs too long in the public arena. I was happy with PG Music's previous system but I presently find that I am feeling uneasy about leaving them on-site for longer.

If indeed PG Music plans to keep the display in its extended duration format, it's enough to stop me posting my work. Alternatively, I guess I could always remove my songs from the external site that my posts' links access so that the songs are no longer available to the world. The downside of doing this is that it will leave redundant posts in the forum.

Kind regards,
Noel

An easy solution is to just move/remove your song from its currint link. Your song is being hosted external to the BIAB forum isn't it?

Hi Keith,

Yes you're right. All songs in this forum are at external locations. I made a mention of that option at the end of my post.

I may be wrong, I seem to recall that it was only a short while ago that the number of pages at this site was discussed and Peter Gannon said that he was happy with how it was at that time.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Noel

It is good, Noel, that you have raised this point. In the beginning I thought that two pages were just fine. While one hopes to get broader feedback from the 300+ or so who visit the post by the time it reaches page two, few in comparison actually reply in any way about the song.

Maybe consider:

1)Maximum Two pages in the User Forum
2)Post erasure at the User's discretion - this would save the Webmaster increased work.
3)Leave the "Edit" button 'live' so that the User can erase the link at his/her discretion.

My ISP provides web stats, and I'm quite surprised to see where visitors to my song postings originate (geographically). The initial most valuable feedback we generally get is given within the first week of posting. So I think, as Noel, that some kind of time restriction should be at the User's discretion and that 18 pages is way too much.

What do the rest of you think?

Ian

Noel,

The chances of someone actually stealing your songs is pretty dang small. The chances of any of us writing anything unique and original (in the modern pop genres) is pretty dang small, too.

Just write your stuff. If you lose sleep at night worrying about song theft, then don't post them.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Quote:

The chances of someone actually stealing your songs is pretty dang small.

To honest, I have no idea how big or small those chances are. What I do know, though, is that the forum is available to the world and indexed by search engines.

Quote:

The chances of any of us writing anything unique and original (in the modern pop genres) is pretty dang small, too.

That certainly applies to me! I'd have zero chance of writing a modern pop song

Despite that, though, I have had publishers pick-up two of my songs in the country genre. I also know that others on here have had some success with publishers.

I appreciate that these are PG Music's forums and that I do not have to contribute. The choice is mine.

All the best,
Noel

Ian,

I support all that you say. You've made some good points.

Regards,
Noel

Quote:

Dear Webmaster,

I'm a little concerned about the increase in the number of pages of songs in the User Forum. It used to be that there were only around six or so. Tonight I looked down and saw that it's now 18. Is this correct? There's now over 12 months of posts on display.

What concerns me is that by having my songs on-site for 3 or 4 times as long, the chance of my material potentially being ripped off is far greater.

I find myself wondering whether or not PG Music fully appreciates one of the aspects of copyright that is unique (for a short while at least) to a song's composer..

Noel,

you make some good points... but the key points of concern are entirely in your control. Why put the blame on PGMusic for public access to songs you willingly posted?

I think its fair to assume that the reason PGMusic made the user showcase available in the first place was to show potential customers what the software can do. It's in THEIR best interest to have a lot of success stories available. Why on earth would they choose to dump good stuff? Music has a long shelf life.

Bottom line, if your goals are in conflict with PGMusic's goals, and an acceptable solution is within your control, go for it. It's always easier to change your own tactics than it is to persuade someone else to change theirs... especially if the other party has an incentive NOT to change.

Hi Pat,

It's always good to hear from you

I completely agree with you. PG Music make this site available to showcase their product and it's my choice entirely whether to post or not to post; to maintain or not to maintain active links to my songs.

The reason that I made the original post is because I wanted to outline the full situation as I saw it so that PG Music had those details and were aware how it could potentially affect their users. Maybe they are already aware of these things; maybe not. I have no idea.

As mentioned in an above post, I found the page increase especially curious given that I have this recollection of Peter Gannon saying that he was happy that the forum finished after around 300 posts when this was discussed a few months ago.

Your assessment of the situation is, as always, well considered. As you point out, I have complete control over whether I want people to hear my songs or not. I guess if Peter has decided to go with the long term display, it's an indication that he's prepared to have posts with redundant links in them so I shouldn't feel that I am "letting the team down" by making my links inactive.

Hope all is going well with you and your family.

All the best,
Noel

P.S. By the way, if you're look for a present for your wife and daughter and they still like Korean dramas, I have just finished watching the historical drama Queen Seondeok. It was excellent and I highly recommend it - lots of action, pathos, love, and philosophy all lumped together. While anachronisms were plentiful, the formula that the Korean producers use to maintain interest is very very effective and even works through subtitles.

Quote:

The reason that I made the original post is because I wanted to outline the full situation as I saw it so that PG Music had those details and were aware how it could potentially affect their users. Maybe they are already aware of these things; maybe not. I have no idea.

As mentioned in an above post, I found the page increase especially curious given that I have this recollection of Peter Gannon saying that he was happy that the forum finished after around 300 posts when this was discussed a few months ago.

a valid point, one completely lost on me since I missed that exchange. I probably shouldn't have butted in.

Quote:

I guess if Peter has decided to go with the long term display, it's an indication that he's prepared to have posts with redundant links in them so I shouldn't feel that I am "letting the team down" by making my links inactive.

since you have a vested interest in your songs, when you make the link inactive after a reasonable tenure, you COULD redirect it to a page advertising your songs to the music world. Or not. Better when a link leads SOMEWHERE.

Quote:

P.S. By the way, if your wife and daughter still like Korean dramas, I have just finished watching the historical drama Queen Seondeok. It was excellent and I highly recommend it - lots of action, pathos and philosophy all lumped together. While anachronisms were plentiful, the formula that the Korean producers use to maintain interest is very very effective and even works through subtitles.

yes, we saw that, and I agree it was excellent! If you liked that one, I recommend CHUNO, another historical drama. Lots of interesting sub plots and extremely well developed characters.. (and some good music!)

Quote:

... Despite that, though, I have had publishers pick-up two of my songs in the country genre. ... -- Noel

Congratulations on that -- I know that is hard to do, so it is a big accomplishment. I hope it goes super well for you!

by the way Noel,
congratulations on your successes at marketing your songs. I don't typically regard achievers as heroes... but the way you have analyzed the path to success and pursued it methodically is something I note and respect.

I would bet that you have more successes ahead. Keep us posted.

And hey, wouldn't it be cool if people followed an old forum link to a song that's been removed, and the new link said "This song is no longer available because it has been picked up by a recording artist"

Hi Kevin and Pat,

Thank you for your good wishes. I was just lucky; you know, right time, right place, etc. Maybe I'll get lucky again sometime in the future, maybe not. I'm not under any illusions about this and, to be honest, it doesn't matter. I enjoy playing around with BIAB whatever the outcome

Pat: The places that I upload my songs to do not, unfortunately, give me enough control to be able to re-direct the links in my posts.

Regards,
Noel

Quote:

Hi Kevin and Pat,

Thank you for your good wishes. I was just lucky; you know, right time, right place, etc. Maybe I'll get lucky again sometime in the future, maybe not. I'm not under any illusions about this and, to be honest, it doesn't matter. I enjoy playing around with BIAB whatever the outcome

Regards,
Noel

Nope, Ain't buyin' the "luck" explanation. It's hard to sell songs when a person is trying as hard as they can. It never ever happens by luck. I think it's a classic case of setting a goal, learning the necessary skills and keeping at it until things clicked. We've watched you work at this for quite a while now, and I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging the success you've earned. Your success is a testimony to the rest of us about what is possible

I'm with Pat on this one!

Congratulations on the success that comes from your "self made" luck.

I think that most people want to see their songs up for a long time, but certainly respect anyone's wishes if they want their song up for a shorter period.

If anyone wants their posts removed from the Showcase forum, please let us know, and we will remove them. For example, you could say "remove all of my posted songs prior to date mm/dd/yy". This only applies to the messages that you put on the Showcase forum about the songs.

Of course you have control over the songs themselves, which are hosted on your site, so you can remove them as you need to.

David,

Thanks for thumbs up. I'm not sure that self-made luck came into it

I still favour "right place/time" scenario. When you've got something as good as BIAB, though, it's always fun whatever the outcome.

Regards,
Noel

Hi Peter,

Thank you for clarifying the situation regarding the increase in song-display duration.

Regards,
Noel

Thank you, Peter for offering to remove some of the older postings should the User wish it.

Much appreciated - Ian

Hey Noel96 I am new to the forum and don't own BIAB yet, But the biggest selling point to me so far is the showcase. I think your concerns genuine and seem to be easily fixed,Do you have a place where i can hear your work? from the comments i think they could be another selling point to my wife, all the links i clicked had error or no file for your songs.I hope to hear some soon. thanks Jerry

Hi JCJazz,

Thank you for being interested in my work. At this point in time, though, I don't have anything that's worth listening to available on the web. Even if there was, I promise you that there are many people who've posted songs in this forum who have works that are a whole heap better than any of mine.

If you decide to go ahead with your purchase, my experience tells me that you won't regret it. BIAB and RB are brilliant programs.

Regards,
Noel