New Song: "Always There" - PG Music Forums

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Hi,

Here's a song I wrote a number of moons ago using AABA form. Around 12 months ago, I revisited it and organised a professional singer to add vocals.

Using demosinger.com, I found Jason Wyatt in Nashville who was happy to record vocals against the backing I'd created. I rendered the BIAB tracks and sent the audio file, along with lyrics, over to him. In less than a week, he'd finished the job. (I've posted this song before with me singing but Jason does a MUCH better job. I thought some on this forum might like to hear how it sounds.) Please feel free to be critical of any aspect of the songwriting and mix.

The below link (m3u file) is to a streaming mp3 so it will take 10 or so seconds to start. If it doesn't load, the link (URL) can be copied and pasted directly into Media Player.

[Link no longer valid]

Here's a link to the song on SoundCloud

[Link no longer valid]

Regards,
Noel

SONG INFO

Vocals: Jason Wyatt.

Style: SLCWALZ.STY (Country Waltz, 2 Guitars (85 RT))
MIDI: Acoustic Piano (1)
1124: Fiddle,BG,CountryWaltz Sw 85
1121: Bass, Acoustic, CountryWaltz Sw 085
824: Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Country Waltz Sw 085
822: Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Country Waltz Sw 085
Drums: NashClassicWaltzSw^1-a:SideStick, HiHat , b:Snare, HiHat

RECENT SONGS

... link ... "One More Day" (with Steve Young)

... link ... "What A Crazy Thing" (with Floyd Jane)

Great job! Excellent vocals with the perfect backing tracks.

This is a keeper.

Noel - on an old computer - XP with IE8, this gives an error "cannot display this webpage"....

Hi Noel.

Another Radio-Ready mix! You really know what you're doing.

Good song, nice arrangement and the session vocalist does well with it.

Absolutely nothing wrong with it as it stands, but some backing vocals might have been nice. Perhaps it's just me looking for work for our girls!

Enjoyed listening, thanks.

ROG.

Hi Floyd,

I've added an alternative link in the original post that should do the job

Nothing wrong with XP. I think it's a great operating system.

Regards,
Noel

Nicely done, Noel... I plan on checking out that website -- what a great idea.

Hi Mario,

I think luck was favouring me when I put this one together. Thanks for taking time to listen. Appreciate it.

All the best,
Noel

Hi Rog,

... interesting you should mention background vocals. Jason did some for me and I put a mix together using them but, in end, I liked the intimacy of the single voice.

I've got to hand it to you with your crew of young musicians. They're outstanding and a real credit to you.

Thanks for taking time to listen to mix and to pass on your thoughts.

All the best,
Noel

Hi Brad,

The website http://demosinger.com is amazing. Using it, it's possible to find singers who are interested in a whole range of genres and throughout the US. What I did was to contact people who's voices I liked, there are samples on-sight, and I asked if they were interested in overdubbing vocals against an already-assembled backing. Jason was the first person I asked so when he got back to me, I took it as a sign to go with him

Twelve months ago, his price was great, too (I imagine it's still great value today).

Here's his homepage ....

http://www.jasonwyattmusic.com/fr_home.cfm

He also runs the guitar/vocal demo studio http://guitarvocaldemo.com/

I struck it lucky (as I said to Mario)!

Thanks for having a listen to the song.

All the best,
Noel

My my my....

Noel that is absolutely over the top with Jason singing. Not that you were bad or anything because you weren't. But he's the perfect fit for this song. And I think when you get the right vocalist for the song, no matter who it is, it's a magic all it's own.

Of course the other side of that is - it doesn't matter who sings a song if the song isn't very good. But a good song with the right voice and this is exactly what you get.

Magic.

Excellent, unabashed love song. Sincere and heartfelt. I agree the singer's voice fits the song. Great job.

Only suggestion is to do away with the AND at the beginning of the song and just sing "when it's dark." It is not natural to begin speaking with And; and is used to connect two words or a phrase, or when answering. It is not a major thing, just a suggestion. The mix and vocal are excellent. Thanks 4 sharing!

My Tunes

Nice work. I remember the original, thinking "That's not how I would sing it" when listening to your phrasing.

It's still got those phrases, and even sung by someone else, it's very much got your mark on it.

I beg to differ, Robert. The "and," IMO, serves to bring the listener immediately into a continuing story.

Here is one of the most beautiful touching songs I know -- Tom Waits, "And if I have to go." (Not the best performance, but the song speaks for itself -- "it's all someone else's idea."). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jyVZNrWkow

Very good song and mix.
The singer perfectly fits the song.

Guenter

Noel, really nice work. You created a real nice "carpet" for your vocalist--good, believable lyrics, nice background/arrangement. I liked it, esp the twin triplet phrase "whether the road" and "long as the earth"...it added a new, interesting dimension, just at the right time. Thanks for sharing.

Hi Josie,

Thank you for listening. I think I was lucky to find Jason. He's a fine singer and a pleasure to work with. When I listened to the version I put together and compared it to what he did, I confess to discovering a new level of embarrassment!

Having a good singer present a song really helps. I was incredibly pleased when I heard what he'd done. Unfortunately this one is a waltz and it seems that no-one is interested in waltzes any more. Still, I like it.

Once again, thanks for taking time to listen and to comment.

All the best,
Noel

Hi Austin,

I appreciate your positive feedback. Thank you for reading the thread. For me, the ultimate test of my songs is always the answer to the question, "Does anyone like it?" It's good when person or two does!

All the best,
Noel

Hi Robert,

Thank you for listening and for commenting. I appreciate your thoughts regarding "and". I've had a number of people in the past comment on that: some like it, some don't and others don't have an opinion on it. I completely agree with you that it's not natural speech and so fails that standard songwriting test of "say it naturally".

Believe it or not, using AND was the starting place for this song. I regularly read Shiela Davis's "Songwriting Idea Book" to get inspiration for a new song. One of her strategies is to begin with the word "And". She says, in almost identical words to what Brallan says a couple of posts down, that using "And" makes a lyric feel like it's starting in the middle of a conversation. Then she mentioned "My Way" and "And I Love You So". I thought it would be interesting to try the technique out. Fortunately for the song, if any singer wants to leave the word out, they can and the lyric still works.

All the best with FAWM. I don't how you manage to do these songwriting challenges. Your dedication to songwriting is nothing short of absolutely amazing.

Best regards,
Noel

Hi David,

Thanks for having a listen. I always appreciate your time and your feedback. I'm not quite sure how to interpret your last sentence but I guess it's a good thing for songs I write to have my mark!

Hope all is sailing along well for you and your family

All the best,
Noel

Hi again, Brad.

Quote:

I beg to differ, Robert. The "and," IMO, serves to bring the listener immediately into a continuing story.

As mentioned above to Robert, Sheila Davis, in her book - "The Songwriting Idea Book", says almost exactly what you say. For me, the word was the spring board that launched me into this song.

Thanks for the Tom Waits link. He's certainly a songwriter who stamps a huge signature on his material. If I had 0.1 of his ability, I'd be very happy!

Regards,
Noel

Hi Guenter,

I appreciate your thumbs up. Thank you for having a listen.

All the best,
Noel

Hi Tano,

Good to see you! The two phrases you isolated came about because I wanted the music to do something different at that point. Then, when I had an idea about how the melody should go, I played around with words for a few days to try and get something that worked. They were the end of result!

In relation to the song's "carpet", I can only take a little bit of credit there. PG Music's BIAB and RB deserved 95% of the credit for that. As you know, this software is a songwriter's dream-come-true.

Kind regards,
Noel

Noel,

Some quality songwriting there! Wonderful mix on the bed tracks! Also great vocal by Jason.

A BIG two thumbs up from me!!

Greg

Hi Greg!

Thanks for those thumbs up. I spent a long time on the mix for this one. It was also the first song I used Ozone to polish the final mix. I have to hand it to the iZitope guys, they really know how to make a mix shine.

Thanks again!
Noel

Noel,

This is a terrific song. Simple and complete at the same time. Sounds like a hit to me. A true "accomplishment" of songwriting. To be able to keep the lyrics of a song simple, at yet, MEAN SO MUCH. Splendid.

The tracks and mix are perfect. The vocals are spectacular - even if you did "cheat" <tee hee>. I would have liked a link to your original....

Keep 'em coming!!!

floyd

Hi Floyd,

I had to cheat!!!! I don't sing anywhere near as well as you do and so it was necessary to call in the professionals. Thanks for the kind words! Do I owe you anything?

When I write a song in AABA, I always keep in my mind that The Beatles managed to have a gigantic hit with "Yesterday" by using only 84 words. Maybe one day I'll discover how to make 84 words work like that for me *laugh*. In the meantime, what I do is to write lyrics and then go through them and try to streamline them by reducing the word count by around 10%. It's always an interesting exercise!

One again, thanks!
Noel

Great song. You're a great singer.

Noel,

All I can say is outstanding! Great song, and really shines with the vocals on it! Very impressive!

Steve

+10 to everything said. Exquisite!

Quote:

Great song. You're a great singer.

Hi Sal,

Thanks for having a listen! I'd love to wear the compliment "great singer" but, at best, I'm only somewhere around "enthusiastic person who tries hard" *laugh*. I called in a professional on this one.

Once again, thank you.
Noel

Hi Mike (Cubanpete),

I appreciate your taking time to drop by and listen to "Always There". I've never have a "+10" before. Thanks for that. It's a perfect start to the day

All the best,
Noel

Hi Steve,

I have to agree with you, the Jason's vocal is certainly the polish that shines the song's shoes. If you heard his version side by side with mine, you'd understand just how shiny his work is! Thanks for have a listen.

All the best,
Noel

Quote:

I'm not quite sure how to interpret your last sentence but I guess it's a good thing for songs I write to have my mark!

Yes, it's a good thing. You like to use asymmetrical constructs, and unusual rhythmic choices. A lot of your songs are "meta" in the country and broadway style, in the sense that the singer makes sophisticated word and rhyme choices that show that they're aware they're singing, instead of going for a more "speaking" voice.

Quote:

Hope all is sailing along well for you and your family

Thanks! We're doing well, but there are several waves of illness still sweeping across the country, so we've got our fingers crossed.

Cheers!

Hi David,

Thank you for giving me this additional insight. You've really made me think about my music from a whole new perspective and I appreciate that. I know I'm going to be pondering your thoughts as I drive to work this morning.

Best wishes,
Noel

Noel,

I almost missed this one. You have a great tune here - excellent all the way. Love the mix as well.

Bob

Great song and mix Noel and fantastic vocals as well, I think a song like that would go down well with a boy band as they have lots of lady fans. Boybands seem to be the rage in the UK and Ireland for the last few years, dont know about Australia.

Noel I know that you use Ozone in your mixodwn I think you said before that you use one of the cd master presets.

Just interested to know did you use the same preset in this song as sometimes I find that my songs are lacking volume when I mixdown and obviously there is a way to get that as you have proved.

Keep it up Noel, one of these days I'm sure some big star is going get hold of one of your songs.

All the best.

Musiclover

Hi Bob,

I've been so busy at work that I nearly missed seeing you telling me you nearly missed this one! LOL! Sounds like there's a song in those words just waiting to escape

Thanks for taking time to have a listen and for the words of encouragement. I appreciate the Saturday-morning smile you've just given me.

All the best,
Noel

Hi musiclover

I'm awfully sorry for taking so long to get back to you and to thank you. Work has been evaporating all my time and there's been little left over for much more than offering a few people help in the other forums. Thank you for all your positive comments. I really appreciate them.

Regarding Ozone ...

I used the below preset with "Always There" without any alteration.

Also as a general part of my work flow ...

After I render the final mix, I open the song in Goldwave and then maximize the waveform. When I do this, I raise the volume past the normalization value so that I chop the tops off some of the waves that have greater variation. This is another way of "limiting" the signal and can be done in most wav processing software. (Ozone does have a limiter that will do this but I have yet to learn how to drive it properly. So until I manage to figure that out, I'll keep doing it this way!)

The image below shows what the finished wave form for "Always There" looks like.

As you can see, it's like someone has used a pair of scissors and has chopped off the tops and bottoms of the waves to make them flat. I do this by maximizing the sound to 1, 1.5 or sometimes even 2.0 rather than simply normalizing it to 0 or -0.3. One needs to be careful limiting the waves because if too much is applied, it causes noticeable distortion of the sound.

Hope this helps,
Noel

Thank you very much Noel for taking the time and the trouble in helping me with this. Its really appreciated.

Musiclover

Enjoyed listening to this song! Not a fault to be found in my opinion. Also appreciated the links to Demo Singer. Been looking for just that service also. And as for the cost, it's pretty reasonable considering what most demo services in Nashville are priced at nowadays.
Val

Noel,

This is a big time song with an over the top performance.

I am surprised we are not hearing this on the radio.

I love everything about it.

Later,

Hi Val,

Thank you for visiting and having a listen. I appreciate your words. I'm glad the information about demosinger.com was useful

All the best,
Noel

Hi Danny,

Thank you! Positive feedback is always welcome. I knew when I wrote this song that it would be unlikely that anyone would be interested in it because it's a waltz. Songwriting is my hobby and, at the end of the day, I'm not really fussed if my songs become known or not. I'll just keep on plodding along and enjoying myself come what may.

All the best,
Noel

Noel,

I'm really late to the party on this one. Been living in the studio so I haven't listened to much. Beautiful changes. Excellent song!

Regards,

Bob

Hi Bob,

Thanks for taking time out from the studio to have a listen. I appreciate it.

All the best,
Noel

Noel

Rock on this is sweeet !

D

Noel

This is sweeeet !

D

Hey Dazzman!

Thank you!!!

All the best,
Noel

Noel,

to save time I plan to order a rubber stamp that says "WOW, Another fantastic song, Noel!"

I've noticed that some of my favorite songwriters on Song Ramp routinely employ pros to help them make demos. Apparently that can make the difference between actually getting listened to, or not. People looking for "the Nashville sound" seem to be anal retentive about not deviating from the formula (which rarely includes an Aussie accent)

On the other hand, when submitting your songs in the UK, Australia or New Zealand, the Nashville singer may be a liability.

Selling songs involves wearing a lot of hats... lyric writing, the ability to record catchy music and then mix and master it... and finally the marketing of it. I'd say you've done a great job of learning every aspect of this business. I expect that you will reap the rewards of your diligence

Thanks for your willingness to share your knowledge on the forum.

Hi Pat,

Just to set the record straight, I have lots and lots of crap songs. Unlike Dylan, "Noel96, The Early Years", would have people heading for the mute button faster than a flash of lightning. Pat Pattison once said at seminar that 90% of Dylan's work is not his best 10%. I'm a GREAT subscriber to that thought

Steve Seskin, who has a number of Number One hits to his name, always gets others to record demos of his songs even though he's a very competent performer himself (have a listen to him here). Steve says that the interpretation that other professional singers bring to his songs adds something that he cannot.

As for being successful ... I'm too lazy for that to happen! That's why it's lucky that songwriting is just a hobby for me.

Thank you for once again visiting one of my songs and starting my day with a smile.

All the best,
Noel

Noel

That goes for every songwriter out there, no one starts out writing hits, its like journey and evolution, we all peak at different times maybe your time is now. If you have a substantial body of works with songs equal to this (or better) then your in with a chance, you have to work on the basis that out of three great songs you write one might be a hit and that's if you have very good industry connections on top.

I am not sure about the waltz thing in modern pop but I will assume that country music is your thing and so Nashville would have a place for this unless they've gone all pop/rock these days.

Best Wishes

Darren

Hi Darren,

Thanks for the advice. Appreciate it

Who knows what the future holds!

All the best with your own songwriting,
Noel

Noel,
Nice song and arrangement. I'm not sure waltzes are going out of fashion. They do seem to be few and far between. But the ones that hit really seem to have staying power as time goes on. Here's hoping that your's "Hits."

-Patrick

Hmmm... I didn't realize y'all "finalized" your songs before posting here. I've just been posting rough/dry mixes. I guess that explains some things.

I definately appreciated the phrasing and the waltz tempo... delicious.

nice tune.... it certainly sounds good.

hi noel this is a great production +12 very clear well done everything thanks for sharing eric

Hi Patrick,

I'm with you, I like waltzes too. There's something very hypnotic and relaxing about good waltz. I guess Strauss managed to prove this very successfully! Thank you for taking time out of your day to have a listen and to comment. I appreciate it. Whether or not my song 'hits', at least I can say I have had some fun with BIAB getting done

All the best,
Noel

Hi Don,

Thank you! You're the first person EVER to use the word delicious as a comment on one of my songs. It's a very visual adjective. I like it

Not all songs that are posted here are finalized. They vary from rough drafts to polished demos. That being said, there is a bit of a leaning in the posts towards getting a song as polished sounding as a person knows how. It's a great little community here and very supportive.

All the best,
Noel

Hi Guitarhacker,

Muchas gracias for having a listen! I'm glad that you didn't mind the waltz either. It's a pity it's not a popular time signature. Oh well, it will come back one day

All the best,
Noel

Hi Eric,

Good to see you! "+12" wow!!! That's an octave in semitones. You've given me a huge smile. Thank you! I'm just heading off to listen to your latest post right this minute. Given my past experience of all your excellent guitar playing, I'm sure I'm going to enjoy this latest one.

Best regards,
Noel