Some of you may recall the first time I posted this song a few months ago. I had a bad cold but decided to do the vocals myself and --well-- , got what I paid for.......

I recently had the opportunity to work with an old friend of many years, Debbie Lanier, and we re-worked this song. I accepted her suggestions for some lyric changes, removed the third chorus and replaced it with a third verse she wrote. Debbie did the vocals this time. All music is BIAB as listed below.

Hopefully, you will find it more paletable to your ears this go round. Enjoy and comments welcome.

Hide My Tears with vocals lowered in mix

Per recent comments, I lowered the vocals a little in the mix.

Title: Hide My Tears
Key=G , Tempo 72, Length (m:s)=3:59
Style is _FPBRT01.STY (Brent FP Gtr's with Piano and PS)

RealTracks in style: ~701:Bass, Electric, PopHalfNotesSync Ev 085
RealTracks in style: ~368:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Ev 065
RealTracks in style: ~1676:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking CountryBrent Ev 065
RealTracks in style: ~364:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 065
RealTracks in song: 2024:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm CountryJohn Ev 085
RealTracks in song: ~~369:Pedal Steel, Background Ev 065
RealDrums in style: NashvilleEven8^3-a:Sidestick, HiHat , b:Snare, HiHat Open


Lyrics:
Please tell me why you don't wanna talk about it
Your eyes tell me you're searching for a way to say goodby
You know that I don't want to fight you about it
I just want to hold you close tonight

Loneliness surrounds me
Even though I've tried and tried
I don't find any comfort
So my tears I try to hide

Each day I live in sorrow and I feel the pain
Seems like the sun never shines and I don't see no change
Look into my eyes and tell me what you see
It has to be true love that's all that it can be

Loneliness surrounds me
Even though I've tried and tried
I don't find any comfort
So my tears I try to hide

But wait --
I feel your arms surround me
Could this mean you want to try
Your eyes tell me you're searching for a way to make things right
I promise I, I'll try not to hurt you
I just want to hold you close to me tonight

This is absolutely gorgeous Charlie. Debbie's voice sounds so good and the restrained and sympathetic backing is just right. Most enjoyed. Cheers.

Hi Charlie,

That was a very pleasant listen indeed

For what it's worth... On my system, the vocal stood out in front of the backing more than I've usually heard. It might be me (I find mixing incredibly challenging) but, if you ever decide to play around with the track again in the future, it could be a productive exercise to see how the song sounds with the vocal reduced by a 1 - 2 dB. Alternatively, maybe the backing could be brought a little more forward.

As I said, though, this was definitely a pleasant listen. Debbie has a very easy-on-the-ears voice.

Best regards to you both,
Noel

• latest song: Walk With Me

Hi Charlie

Great effort with a really nice song.

I listened before reading the other posts, but I kind-of agree with Noel, that the vocals might be a little too much up front.

This could be because you are so pleased to have made the improvement you were looking for, that you just want to show them off (ha ha).

The recordings are all top quality, but I think you'll improve it more if you just pull the balance of the vocals back a tiny bit.

Hope this feedback is received positively. That's how it's meant!

Best

Trev

Charlie,
Love this production, but I remember loving the previous version also. Do you have your elder version, so I can compare?
Grtz
Fred

Hello, Charlie.

I missed out on the first version, but I found this version quite enjoyable.


Thanks for the music,
Dan

Hi Charlie,

with Debbie you have found a gem. Especially
like the harmonies. Would have wished some more.
But others are right: a little too much out in front.
The song is worth it making that little change.

Guenter

Hi Charlie and Debbie
Wow! I really love this vocal. It sounded very good to me (listening on ear buds). A really nice write and the harmonies are just beautiful. Good job.

Hi Charlie,

We think you both have done a great job, the new vocals sound very nice especially on the choruses.
A small tip: the vocals in the verses could use slightly more reverb in our opinion.
A good listen!

Rob and Anne-Marie

Charlie and Debbie,

Very nice. Such a sweet vocal. And the harmonies were really nicely done.

A terrific arrangement - nice build and each instrument fell into place nicely. Excellent mix - the vocals are sitting right where they should... and all the instruments are at good levels.

I like that the song ends on a positive note - that puts it a cut above the typical "sad song"...

Well done.

floyd

I don't remember the original but this is very nice!! Really pretty vocals and sweet harmonies. Nicely done all around! Take care. Greg

What's not to love here! That chorus is super! The harmonies and the steel guitar - amazing!

RichMac: Thanks for listening. Debbie and I seem to collaborate about once a decade any more but it is always a joy. She is a super person and talent.

Noel96: Thanks to you also for stopping by. I probably overcompensated on the vocals originally. When I sent the first mix to Debbie she thought the vocals were too low. I turned them up. I've gone back and dropped the vocals and uploaded that version after seeing yours and others early comments today. Hopefully, it's better now.

Trevor: Thanks. See my comments to Noel. Yes, I wish Debbie could sing for me more. We sang together quite a bit in years past but it has been difficult to get together the past few years. I appreciate your comments and realize they are meant to be helpful, (and they are)....

FredM: I appreciate you taking time to stop by and I will pull up the original and post it here in this thread to avoid confusion of having a thread for both on the forum at the same time. Check back, I will have it posted in a few hours.

Big741: Hi Dan. You didn't miss much from the first version but there is some interest to compare the two so I will post the first version here in this thread so those who wish to compare, can do so.
Thanks for stopping by.

Guenter: Thanks for your kind comments. I always appreciate you stopping by for a listen. I have hopefully fixed the vocals in the mix as I pulled them back and re-uploaded after several others commented the same.

JosieC: Thanks for listening and commenting. Debbie is an old friend and we have such fun when we do get together to work on a project.

RnAM: Always good to hear from you guys. I recorded this in RealBand and used the default Fx for female vocal setting for reverb and lowered the reverb to Debbie's liking. She felt the default setting to be too much reverb. The unison vocal and upper harmony both are recorded at the default level but that doesn't help in the verse when they aren't heard.

Floyd: Thanks for listening. I appreciate your comments on the mix. I try to look at the instrumentation and build of instruments and also varying the drum patterns closer. I still refer to an email from you with suggestions on a song you provided me with guidance. Debbie's first comment when hearing the song was it needed some "Hope". She made some changes to the first verse lyrics and brought the idea together with a third verse.

Greg: The first version was not particularly memorable. I will re-post here on this thread for comparison as some others have expressed interest to hear the original as they missed it when I posted it a few months ago. Thanks for stopping by.

Gruverider: I appreciate your comments and glad you enjoyed it.

For those interested in comparing the original to the remix:
Hide My Tears Original Version

Hi again, Charlie.

I've just had a listen to the remixed vocals. This mix sits much better on my system. It's a beautiful sound.

All the best,
Noel

• latest song: Walk With Me

A sparse production that manages at the
same time to sound lush. That's a great
place to be with a mix.

Nice vocals and RT choice with an
arrangement that supports the feel
of the lyrics.

Kudos

We enjoyed it.

J&B

+1, That's a good way to put it. Really like the song, the mix and the vocals. Great job! Tom

Charlie,

This is a beautiful song - the vocal with Debbie works so well. The mix sounded good to me - I actually like the up front vocal on this song...

Bob

Beautifully done all around Charlie. Debbie has a very pretty voice. Especially enjoyed those harmonies.

Josie

Hi Charlie,

It is a beautiful write,

Debbie adds a great vocal to the song. I love both versions but... though v2 is the better production, yours make me really feel the desperation of the singer!

Grtz,

Fred

Noel96: Noel, thanks so much for taking time to listen again. That means a lot.

J&B: Thanks for taking time to listen and comment. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Tommyad: Hi Tom. I appreciate your comments. I'm sure you've played your fair share of tearjerkers over the years.

Bob: I'm glad you like the song. This particular chord progression works really well with an acoustic guitar and is just enough variance to have that melancholy, sad feel about it. Because of the limited time I had to actually record Debbie, I completed the music mix in BIAB and sent her the stereo backing track to learn and practice the song. I imported that complete track into RB and only recorded her vocals during our work session. So the final mix should have been as easy as setting a good balance level between the lead and backing vocals with the stereo audio track and adding effects. When I emailed the first rough mix to Debbie, she thought the lead vocal was too low and had too much reverb. I re-mixed and that version was the first I posted here on the forum. It was deemed the vocals were too out front and some suggested more reverb. I split it down the middle and left the reverb as is and turned down the lead in the mix and everyone seems to like it better. I accepting the reason to be as someone posted earlier, my excitement to have Debbie singing for me. ;=)

Hi Josie, thanks for listening. I did the harmonies in RB using the audio harmony feature. I kept the first take that Debbie thought had too much reverb and used it to create the unison track and upper harmony.

Fred: I truly appreciate your comments. The back story of the recording rather than the quality will keep the first version of this song a favorite of mine for a long time. As I've noted, I was still recovering from a seriously bad cold when I felt good enough to attempt what was to be a scratch track of this song. In the past, my body has let bad colds develop into pneumonia so I have to watch myself as does my wife, who is a Nurse Practitioner of many years. I was trying to sneak in a quick, single vocal scratch track while she was busy in the other end of the house. She heard what I was doing and could be heard on the recording fussing at me from two rooms away as she headed to the studio to put a stop to such foolery as 'singing' while I was still sick. After to listening to the playback, she allowed me to punch in that section....

Hi Charlie!

I remember the first version, and I want to go on record as being one who likes your voice in your songs. There is an honesty to your songs that benefits from the honesty in your voice. You are the real deal, and don't let that important distinction get away.

Having said that, I do see value in collaborations. Bringing new voices, instruments, ideas and perspectives into the equation can keep the creativity new and dynamic. Debbie's vocals certainly work well in your song. You did a good job of recording her and of creating the song in BIAB/RB

all in all, I thought it was a very nice song. Thanks for resurrecting it! I enjoyed it both times!

Hi Pat. Been missing you recently here. Glad to see you back. I always look forward to your insights and positive outlook on topics and songs here on the forum.

You and Fred give me the courage to get off the ground and hop back in the saddle again.

Thanks for listening and commenting.

Charlie

This is a cool tune. Have you considered making this a duet? I think this would be in a whole different category if it was constructed as a duet.


I like what you've done with this. I listened to the first version as well and like your voice...... consider a duet. All you have to do is drop your vocal into the version 2 mix in places.... take a verse, harmonize the chorus....

I also have a few nits that kinda caught my attention.

One is evident to me in the first line. The lyrics and their phrasing don't fit smoothly into the melody so your singer has to rush to get all the words to fit. In cases like that, I set back, and examine both the melody and the lyrics, changing one, the other, or both to make it fit properly and flow smoothly. Of course if you change the melody and phrasing, you must do it on all the verses the same way. So that might entail re-writing those lines as needed. (yeah, more work)

Another thing that caught my ear was the slight case of "Yoda" speak..... (wink) .... "So my tears I try to hide".... my wife, a teacher, could tell you the grammar things about this, (predicate before the adverb after the conjunction before the passive noun kind of things) .... I will simply say, not too many folks speak this way today..... More naturally, we would say, "So I try to hide my tears"...and of course that puts you in the position of having to go back to the matching rhyme line and make that one fit the rhyme... or change the lyrics in both lines. most folks who use these sorts of "backwards grammar lines" in their songs do so because of the rhyme. It's more better good to work harder and rewrite the line to make the grammar correct and search to find a line that fits and rhymes within that parameter.

Charlie, trust me when I tell you that I encounter both of these things I have pointed out here on a regular basis when I am writing songs. In fact, in almost every song I write or co-write, this issue occurs. How well you handle it and resolve it determines how nicely, and naturally the song comes together.

Don't misunderstand me here..... this isn't a slam, it's simply encouraging you to have a look a bit deeper into the details of writing a good song lyric and melody.

Hi Herb. Thanks so much for listening and taking time to share your thoughts and recommendations. I do not take your comments as slamming at all and truly appreciate you or anyone sharing their reactions to my work. My admiration for you and respect for your work is quite high for the particular reason that I inadvertently found you on SoundClick before I had ever purchased BIAB or visited this forum. You had recorded a local girl (I think with a bluegrass background) and the song, recording, mix and production was so good to me. I thought Upper Room was a small,complete recording studio complex in a building with a big mixer in a control room with racks of gear and a group of pros running it. So from the start, I have considered you an both expert and professional. When you speak, I listen. ;=)

I appreciate your kind comment regarding my vocals. You and others give me hope and inspiration.

"Yoda". A technique (bad habit) I have wrestled with my entire writing career. I don't recall its beginning but speculate it is a Beatle influence. I was in a band that recorded an album in May 1975 and during the recording process, we had two production squabbles. One was restructuring the song chosen as the title track and the other a Yoda line in the lyrics of one of the songs. We had practiced the songs of the album for several months prior to going into the studio to save time and money as well as performed the songs live. It was placed in the song for emphasis rather than rhyme but to accentuate the phrase to not sound cliche. "But now it's the morning after; And still I am wondering" It sounded right to the band (desensitized?) and the band won that creative battle. That moment probably empowered me and I've retained the habit. Looking back on this song, I'm surprised Debbie did not approach me to change the lyric. I think she may have been more focused on the 'hopelessness' of the main character. I'll certainly experiment with changing both the phrasing and Yoda but not sure if this song deserves a third posting. We'll see.

Duet? Most of my work with Debbie over the years have been duets. She also does a lot of duets with her sister. The only song I've had picked up for recording by another artist was a duet with Debbie. So, maybe.

Again, I appreciate your comments and thoughts and critical listening of the song.

Charlie

Very enjoyable, solid write, mix and performances.

I agree that the vocals are a little too hot, but not by much. Getting vocals to fit in the mix is the hardest thing for me to do.

The singing is great:) It's consistent throughout with feeling and controlled fire!

Thanks for listening Olemon. After generating the song in BIAB, everything else was completed in RealBand. I have not gotten completely comfortable mixing in RB yet and also deferred to Debbie's thoughts on the song too.

Debbie sings a lot with her sister and they really sound good together and I'm hoping I can come up with a song I can record them together, I think the forum would really enjoy it.

I appreciate you taking the time to listen and comment.

Charlie

c_fogle,

Your best production yet. The volume levels are about perfect.

One suggestion, during the harmonies the voices need to spread farther apart left to right and keep the center filled. To my ears it sounds as though the harmonies are in one spot of the left channel and a single voice is in one spot of the right channel while the center vocals are partly muted.

As others have mentioned the sparse instrument arrangement stands out.

Your vocalist, Debbie Lanier, gave you a wonderful performance.

Jim, thanks for listening. In the limited time I had Debbie available, we only captured two takes. The first take, Debbie felt had to much reverb so we recorded a second take.

The second take was the lead vocal. I used the first take during the harmony sections as a unison track panned a little to the left. I also created the higher harmony part from the first take and that was panned right. The lead vocal was centered. If the unison track pulled the lead vocal to sound left panned, that was likely due to the unison volume level being a bit to high. My attempt with the unison was to create more of a doubling effect and have the harmony stand out on its own. In the last line of the song, I did not do the higher harmony and thought the unison/vocal effect worked perfectly.

I've got the tracks so I can experiment some more with panning and maybe add some Biabettes style harmonies as well.

Charlie

Charlie,

sounds really superb now.
nice chorus with the harmonies
"but wait your arms surround me" so unexpected to hear the spoken word.
Debbie has a lovely voice.

This is really nice, an enjoyable listen

Alyn

Alyn, thanks for your kind comments. I'm glad you enjoyed the song. Debbie is a dear friend and a joy to work with. Busy lives provide us the opportunity to work together only about once a decade though.

She's the kind of person that if I keep my mouth shut and stay out of her way, she comes out with all kinds of unexpected bonus's that take the song up a level or two.

I appreciate you listening and taking time to comment.

Charlie