Title: Don't raise me on a wall

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7tvbWoWOlg

SoundCloud link:
https://soundcloud.com/eleanorlennox/dont-raise-me-up

Some background info:
when someone falls in love with you (especially at a young age) he or she only wants to see you in a positive way, and raises you on a pedestal of which you're probably not worthy of.
It's your responsibility to fix this.

Now, the word "pedestal" has too much syllables and an unfortunate flow to properly fit into my song, so I changed it to "wall", which coincidentally rhymes perfectly to "fall"

Makes perfect sense in my mother language, but might be complete nonsense in English.

If the latter I'm gonna kill me.
Softly!
With this song...

Anyway, I'd appreciate your feedback on this because I'm not a native speaker, and I could not find any reference whether it's correct or not.
And this song (like the last one) was unfortunately also already finished and uploaded before I found this forum to ask someone....

[ to make the first post easier to quote I've moved the lengthy lyrics and song information to a dedicated post, I hope that's not against any rules ]

Title: Eleanor Lennox: Don't raise me on a wall

Lyrics:
Intro:
If I could find the words
I would write a song for you
it would be the most beautiful song...

Pre-Chorus:
But I hate those silly love songs
they all suck and are just for the fools
I will never write a love song
I will never walk that road
it's so wrong

Verse 1:
I'm not that bad
but not a perfect person
I feel as much as you
but I fear I lose affection
That's why I have to tell you:

Chorus 1:
Don't raise me on a wall
cause I would have to fall
to get my feet back on the ground
I'm not the one you want
I'm just the way I am
The only person here to blame

Verse 2:
Now we're here
much love and some butterflies
it's not all fun and games
In the end I will be the one to blame
But I'm working on it...

Chorus 2:
Don't raise me on a wall
cause I would have to fall
to get my feet back on the ground
I'm not the one you want
I'm just the way I am
My life will never be the same...

Bridge:
the same...
the same...
I just wrote a f*cking love song
I don't wanna walk that road
it's too long
Did I tell you:

Chorus 3:
Don't raise me on a wall
cause I would have to fall
to get my feet back on the ground
I'm not the one you want
I'm just the way I am
The only person here to blame

Chorus 4:
Don't raise me on a wall
cause I would have to fall
to get my feet back on the ground
I'm not the one you want
I'm just the way I am
My life will never be the same

BIAB Instruments:
Bass 1009, Violin 2338, Viola 1009, Guitar 639, Guitar 642

Mixed in Cubase Pro 11

I see what you mean. I'm not a native speaker either, but I don't think it is correct English.
But never mind too much. The song is great, and the video is super! Pretty fabulous the way you synced the lyrics with the mouth movements.

So I hardly think the native speakers will notice ;-)

Rob

Nice video and audio work! The synthesized vocal seems to work very good with the project. Mix sounds good too. Thanks. T

First of all, Brian, this song is really really good. The feel and melody are so strong that you could have written pretty much any words. Yet you wrote strong lyrics to match the music. I'm on my 3rd listen now. Yeah, I understand what you mean by using "wall." Many of us from the 60s would think of "Up against the wall, MF!" HAHA "Raise me up so tall" would work too, but I actually like yours better. It's also about time that us English-speaking snobs expand our way of thinking. hehe Good song.

Nice sounds. I like it. It is pop.

What programs are you using to generate the video and the vocals, out of curiosity?

Hi B.D.
Song and video are really cool done
I really like the background track
Well done
Many greetings
Andi ;-)

Thanks a lot for your nice feedback, Rob.
I think you're right, I shouldn't overthink the lyrics and should book 'unfortunate' lyrics under 'artistic freedom'

Thanks a lot for your nice feedback Torrey.

Hey marty, thanks a lot for listening and your nice and encouraging words.
"Raise me up so tall" is really a good idea, I didn't know this phrase before. You never stop learning...thanks again!

Hi David, thank you for listening and your feedback.

For the video I've used iClone8 (see https://www.reallusion.com/iclone/default.html). It's a bit pricey, but it's really good and saves me a LOT of time compared the software (DAZ Studio) which I used before.
For the very short time I'm working with it the results look already quite good, and I've just scratched the surface of it.

For the vocals I use Synthesizer V (see https://dreamtonics.com/synthesizerv/) and for some things Yamaha Vocaloid (see https://www.vocaloid.com/en/). But these days I use Vocaloid not much anymore because the workflow (and time to get reasonable results) of Synthesizer V is much better, at least for the way I work.

Hi Andi, thanks a lot for the nice feedback and that you took the time to listen to my song.
Greetings back from Germany

"Don't raise me on a wall
'cause I would have to fall"

Yes, it is clunky in English.
Pedestal wouldn't work as it's pronounced pede stl and to make it rhyme you'd have to torture the last syllable into stall.

"Don't hang me on a wall" would be closer to a fit but is still problematic unless your name is Arthur.
"Don't raise me up at all"
There're a few rhymes for all but not many come within the scope of your text.

"they all suck and are just for the fools" is also a bit clunky.

Nice lyric idea.

Now there's coffee on my keyboard


Good proposal, now I have:

• "Don't paint me on a wall": that was my very first idea for the chorus, similar to "Don't paint me in a corner". But I didn't find any reference for it, so I guess this phrase doesn't exist.
• "Don't raise me on a wall": sounds cool but is clunky
• "Don't raise me up at all": certainly a good option
• "Don't raise me up so tall" by marty: another good option

I think I'll try both yours and marty's and decide what sounds better.


I was not 100% happy with this one as well. At least this would be an easy change because there's no context which would need changes.

Thanks again for your suggestions, I highly appreciate this!

B.D.

Cool Pop song. Cool Pop sound.
Impressive vocals (some of the best synth-voice vocals I've heard).
Production and mix work well.
Enjoyed that - a lot.

fj

Thanks a lot for your positive feedback, Floyd.

Most non-musicians don't even notice that it's not a real singer.
I even got dating-requests for Eleanor

So, I changed the lyrics, both proposals (from rayc and marty) found a new home in my song. I also changed the second line of the pre-chorus, sounds better to me.

And for obvious reasons the song title was changed to "Don't raise me up".

New version: https://soundcloud.com/eleanorlennox/dont-raise-me-up

It’s a cool song and video and the meaning is clear regardless of whether the phrase is one commonly used or not.

We enjoyed reading the suggested alternatives.

Synthesizer V is awesome!

The RT band and mix are good too.

Well done!
J&B

What a really nice listen! I loved it from first note to last. And that's the best vocaloid I've ever heard. The video is very well executed - very convincing.

I wouldn't worry too much about those two places in the lyric. The total soundscape makes it very enjoyable and we know what you mean.

That was a true pleasure for my ears!

Alan

I agree with Alan and I couldn't have said it any better.

You have mastered the art of synth vocals!

Loved it

PS - don't worry about the lyrics or your English. They both are just fine.

Beady,
Yes it reads better.
Well done is seeking and accepting guidance without giving up your own ideas.

I had no issue understanding the meaning of the words. I don't think there is any logical reason to require anyone to use formal ways of using any language.

It is very common when living in Europe to hear mistakes made by non-native speakers. There are a lot of languages in close proximity. Here in the United States, it is more a question of dialects but in some areas, English is not the primary language.

I liked everything about the song. I think as time goes forward, this virtual world will become very commonplace.

As an artist, I think it is your job to create your version of art and it is our job to interpret the meaning.

My guess is that the future will be a collaborative effort between artists of different types. It is pretty difficult to be highly skilled in all the parts needed. In fact, this is what is going on in major film studios.

The really cool thing is that you have been able to create both music and video. Good stuff!

Billy

Just an afterthought. Here is a link to a list of songs that have no discernable meaning in the words used. So your minor deviation should be totally understandable to anyone. Using non-standard language in music is a common device.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/articles/2d67dd79-7603-46ef-ba55-b46cd2884f8b

Who would consider this very understandable? Yet it is considered great poetry.

The force that through the green fuse drives the flower
Drives my green age; that blasts the roots of trees
Is my destroyer.
And I am dumb to tell the crooked rose
My youth is bent by the same wintry fever.

The poster asked Billy...
"Makes perfect sense in my mother language, but might be complete nonsense in English.
If the latter I'm gonna kill me.
Softly!
With this song...
Anyway, I'd appreciate your feedback on this because I'm not a native speaker..."
There's also a difference when a lyric is deliberately obtuse/impressionistic as opposed to trying to communicate as directly as possible in a 2nd/3rd/4th language.
Then there's drug addled as with "In da Gadda da Vida" baby.

Hi Ray,

Nothing I said was meant to discount anything anyone else said or to diminish the value of any lyrical suggestions.

There are no "wrong notes" and there are no "wrong words" no matter if they are intentional or accidental. Just perhaps better choices.

It is common for me on an almost daily basis to ask if my choice of words and phrases are normal and understandable. I currently have to communicate in the fourth language I have had to learn and frequently do not know if what I am saying makes any sense. So I hope that I have a little bit of an idea of what the OP is dealing with.

The fact is the lyrics make perfect sense in English. Perhaps even better than the use of the idiomatic expression of placing someone on a pedestal. Also, I am not aware of a single word in the English language that actually rhymes with pedestal. Some close but no cigar...lol

I think there is a great value to phraseology derived from other languages and converted to English. Also, English that originates from other dialects of English and other cultures that speak some form of English.

It is altogether natural to ask for advice on the use of phrases when one is not completely knowledgeable about a particular language and perhaps even more common to ask for feedback concerning lyrics.

The use of unclear language while flying airplanes or defusing a bomb can get you killed...lol Killing you softly with my words...not so much...lol

Sorry, Eddie and I run a race to see who can write the most words in a post...lol

Again, I never intended to discount your lyrical suggestions which the OP obviously liked.

Billy

Excellent production of both the video and audio. Enjoyed this a lot. Thanks for sharing.

Charlie

Thanks a lot J&B for listening to my song and for your encouraging feedback.
I think it will be not the last time where I'm unsure about my lyrics, I really love to write in pictures, but not all translate well...

Thanks Alan and Mario for listening to my song and for the positive feedback, I appreciate this a lot.

Synthetic voices are actually not THAT hard to master, you just have to treat them like a 'real' singer:
- find the best sounding vocal range
- emphasize the right syllables
- find a rhythmic singing pattern that supports the flow of the song

I have to thank YOU for your constructive feedback, it helped a lot.
And even in cases where I might have a completely different opinion I always re-evaluate my point of view. Makes me understand my own approach better.

BTW, if it would not be the song title AND the main hook I might probably have kept the original lyrics (after all, nobody complained about Roger Waters' "And everything is green and submarine").

But, to be honest, I don't have the balls for that...yet

All good, I read, absorb and learn from you both.

And thanks for the link, Billy...I can't get MMMBop out of my head right now


I guess a rapper like Eminem could make a 5-minute song with ONLY words that rhyme with pedestal and still get a Grammy for that.
But, like him or not, lyrically he's a genius. I'm not

Thanks for listening, Charlie

Hi Brian,

Can you give a little description of how the words were formed in the software? I assume "Eleanor" is the name from the software. They are very clear in almost all cases. There also seemed to not be an issue with words of more than two syllables.

After you enter the note pitch and length and the plus sign, are there other tools to control the sound of words?

Billy

Nice work on this. I really enjoyed it, nothing to add or suggest except thanks for posting this little gem.

Rick

Thanks a lot for listening and your nice feedback, Rick.

Correct, Eleanor Forte is the name of the voice-bank for Synthesizer V.
I liked the name and am a big fan of the voice of Annie Lennox, so "Eleanor Lennox" was born.
Her friends call here "Lea"

Most Synthesizer V owner prefer the voice-bank "SOLARIA", but for female vocals I prefer the contralto range, and that's where Eleanor shines.

As for controlling the voice, you can customize tension, breathing, vibrato, timbre and a couple of other things to your taste.

And most important (as I already wrote above):
treat synthetic voices like a 'real' singer:
- find the best sounding vocal range
- emphasize the right syllables
- find a rhythmic singing pattern that supports the flow of the song
- don't request things they just can't deliver

I loved the song, and the video. It's amazing that the vocals are synthetic; I would have never guessed.

As for the English "Don't put me on a wall..." It doesn't really mean anything specific to me. While it's a bit different than putting someone on a pedestal, putting something on the wall suggests hanging a trophy. So, simply changing the "a" to "the" could be a fix. The meaning would change a bit from 'don't over-idealize me' to 'don't consider me your possession.'

I heard this on the SynthesizerV forum - really nicely done. Love the vocals and backing tracks.

Catchy pop - I like it!

As you point out, the lyric is problematic - especially because it's the hook, which is where all the attention goes.

It makes sense, but it's klunky.

One of the things I like about working with SynthV - it's trivial to modify the vocal, save the audio file, load the DAW and re-render the song. So you can go through lots of iterations on the lyrics and test them out. I've actually done that a number of times with songs I've posted - even after posting them.

I think the best approach would be to drop the lyric and go with something else that has the same sort of idea, but a different rhyme that doesn't box you in a corner.

Or just chalk it up to "live and learn" and move on to the next song.

Wow, that was very good and the vox sounded so natural! Good songwriting and the vox fit so well. This is starting to get into the scary phase of music where machines take over. Hope not! We'll be long gone by the time it gets to that.

that AI voice sounds great

Good song with a catchy melody. I like the chugging rock guitars!

Thank your for listening and your feedback, especially the explanation about the different meaning of "a wall" and "the wall". Even when my English is not THAT bad there's still lot of room for improvements.

There's already a fixed version, thanks to some forum members the problematic phrase was changed to "don't raise me up so tall". The song title was also changed.

Since I've not yet found the time to re-do the video here's an audio-only version: Eleanor Lennox - Don't raise me up

Thank you for your time to listen and write a feedback, I appreciate this a lot.


It's fixed already, see my last posting above.
My audio PC is fast enough to directly use the VST-plugin in Cubase, so I can directly listen to all the changes in real time. Makes modifications really easy.

Thanks a lot for your nice feedback, TuneMonger!


As long as your name is not Sarah Connor you'll be fine

Thanks a lot for listening and your feedback, it's very appreciated.

Actually those chugging guitars were the start of the song, I liked them so much that I wrote the hole song around them.
I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the future I'll use them again.

B.D.Thomas,
Neat pop composition. Good work on robo girl training. Clear mix.
Thank you for sharing.
Misha.

Not sure the word "wall" translates that well in English to that meaning, but the song is really nice!!! Vocals are lovely, and the mix is great! Very nicely done!! Take care. Greg

Thank you for your nice feedback, Misha

Thanks a lot for listening and your nice feedback, Greg.

With a little help from my friends (here: our own rayc and Marty) I was able to fix the problematic lyrics.
Big kudos to them both

Hi B.D. Thomas,

Superb song. I appreciate the lyrics as well as the melody. The video is well done. It's nice work. Well done.

Kindly regard
Derochette
alias JaniJackFlash

[ Sorry, almost forgot to reply to this ]

Thank you so much for your kind words, Derochette.

I really appreciate you guys and girls taking the time to listen and comment on my music!

Well, I like it! It's a nice pop song! Enjoyed the lyrics, too. What's not to like? Good job :-)

Thanks for listening and your nice words, James. I appreciate this!