In the band I am in we pretty much did all our songs in the original key and if we couldn't we just didn't do that song. My fiance was a chorus teacher/vocal coach for 20 years and is very big on getting the key comfortable. She has a wonderful voice and sounds great in any key....I on the other hand have a marginal voice.... this works with a band but in a duo set up I will be more prominent. I have been working on backing tracks and have found I have had to change the key quite a bit to make it comfortable on some songs ie "Bad Moon Rising" originally in D and I moved it to A. I will admit it sounds much better than when I tried to screech to do it in D but how far can you go before you need to make stylistic changes. For me I will have to play the guitar part in a different position so I will need to play it differently. The backing tracks pretty much follow the original.....I just don't want it to sound like a lounge lizard act.

That's where inversions come in handy. However, any time you change the key to a song, the feel of the song becomes different, often in subtle but noticeable ways to those with good ears. This is especially true when the song is originally played with open chords. As soon as you play a barre or inversion, it's immediately obvious to all but the most tone deaf people that "something's not quite right" with the song.

A game several of us musicians used to play (many years ago) was to listen to a song we were not familiar with and determine the key simply by listening. It's really not as hard as it sounds. I find myself playing the solitaire version of this game even now.

All that said, good musicians can play a song in any key and make it sound good. As you point out.... Bad Moon in D really relies on the open chords John Fogerty used in it for it's signature sound. Change it to A and the color of the chords are now totally different.

It's really a toss up on changing the keys vs keeping the original key and groove. But if the singer can't sing in the original key, you really don't have too many options other than changing the key or the singer.

Perhaps another, better option is to choose your songs carefully from the list of songs that you CAN sing comfortably. Avoid the ones that are difficult due to the original key being out of range and the ones you're not willing to re-work into a different key.

The upside to changing keys is that it affords the opportunity for you to work up a totally unique version of the song since the original sound won't be a part of the feel.

In A I have the chord inversion worked out and as you said it will alter the sound compared to the original but I just don't have Fogerty's vocal range. What I have been using BIAB for is to get backing tracks that are reasonably close to the original without the signature parts which I will play live. Then I play with the key changes to find out what works best. With Bad Moon I transposed the bass upwards to A and the guitar downwards to A and this sounds pretty good to me. Singing wise it seems to hold up as well. I need to work out some of the signature parts to see if it will fly. If not then I may play with styles and come up with a new version. Thanks for the advice.

One of the interesting things I can do with my GR 55 guitar synth is I can use alternate tunings so I can play the chords as they were in the original but transposed to whatever key I want. Not sure how well it would work but I have used it before when I wanted to take a song down a half step or 2 and it would have been difficult to change the way I played the song.

This may sound odd, but it depends on the audience.

There are the people who know you changed keys, no why, and think it was a good choice. There's really not that many of these in a typical crowd.

There are the people who know you changed keys, no why, and don't like it. This is usually an even smaller part of the crowd.

Then there is BY FAR the vast majority who don't realize you changed the key at all. I'm not kidding when I say it's probably over 90% of the people or more. They simply don't know.

Then there is the other factor. Alcohol. It's the game changer.

In a typical crowd I'd say it is more like 99%! If you wanna cover a song grab yer capo and sing it where it is comfortable. The impact of you not being John Fogerty is gonna be much greater than the impact of transposing the song! And that one guy in the audience who might notice? Who cares?

Luckily for me I am doing the duo thing for my own entertainment so as long as I don't jeopardize playing a place I feel like I have freedom to do basically what I want just need to learn to duck if they start throwing things. I get what you are saying though most people aren't going to be that tuned into what we're doing.

Let me know how that works out for ya.

I was just being flip....been playing in a band for 30 years doing danceable music and I see the duo as a way to try things I might not normally do......if a song falls on it's face I just won't do it any more. But the bottom line is I really would like to enjoy the music I'm doing.....that wasn't always happening in the band.

Ha! I struggled with that. I started at 99%. Brought it down to 95%. Then finally settled on the confusing "over 90% or more." Brought to you by the department of redundancy department.

I feel as you do though!

Aside from the whole "if it's on the internet it must be true" thing,

9 out of 4 musicians are really bad at math.

Generally, the vocalist's most comfortable range and "sweet spot" will dictate the key and the song will be transposed to suit.

In a duo, you have two choices: be background music that people talk over, or entertain. The former is easier, of course, but if you can sell the songs, nobody is going to care what key it's in.


Regards,

bob

Here is a odd observation.

Now this doesn't haven't to do with transposition, which isn't a bad thing in my book, but it does have to do with the musicians liberty.

I've seen bands a number of times where the singer "made it their own." The ones that bug me are the ones that "lounge it out." Just a pet peeve of mine.

Part of what bothered me was, in my opinion, their changes to make a great melody sound lame. Again, MY opinion. You know THAT lounge singer, right?

The other part that bothered me, and you will like this, was the number of people that REALLY enjoyed the singer anyway! Some would even come up and say "wow! She/He has a GREAT voice!" What?!?! Yup! So what did it matter what I thought? I was BY FAR one of the few! That guy/girl was out performing to ADORING fans! GOOD FOR THEM!

Just for the record, I have also see singers who have done melodic variations that I was blown away by. So it's not that they have to sing it "like the record" for me.

I hope that helps a little?

Yes your comments help a lot and make sense. I like to stay somewhat true to the original. I recorded my voice on Bad Moon in A and I don't think it went too "loungy" to me. I have to work on the guitar parts to see how it will sound. I try to make intelligent decisions on songs and my fiance being a chorus/vocal teacher won't let me get away with anything. This is what I really like about BIAB is I can easily set up backing tracks and not have to invest a lot of time to see if a song will work.....Bad Moon is essentially a three chord song and the real challenge to me is singing it. As it sits right now I'm leaning towards not doing it but not totally ready to abandon ship.

Whether a song goes "lounge lizard" or stays true to the original groove I think depends more on the style you choose and the way it's sung. More so than the key you choose to sing it in.

If you take Bad Moon, and apply a smooth jazz style.... you got instant lounge lizard grist.

You can modulate all over the place and still have that original groove if it's played with the attitude, groove, and feeling JF put into the original.

To be a real Lounge Lizard, you have to play “Quando Quando Quando”

I think you are correct. My band has been doing Bob Segar tunes for years and I used to screech it out in the original key and blow my voice out. We moved them into a more reasonable key and no more blow outs and it sounds much better to me. I guess the key for me is to record it and evaluate. Then we'll see if anyone complains that I am doing it in the wrong key.

No one will likely notice the key. They will notice that you are screeching and can't sing it in the original key.....they won't know the part about the key, they just know you're butchering the vocal part and that equates to "you really suck" in their minds.

Always sing a song in YOUR comfort range. Transpose if necessary. But either own the song or don't sing it.

FWIW, I collaborated with Seattle DJ Bob Rivers on "Bathroom On The Right", a CCR parody with Don Jr doing his fabulous John Fogarty impression.

I have Bob's permission to post it, if anyone is interested.

As s Sax player playing any key the vocalist wants is a given. As a solo BIAB performer, singing 18 out of 20 songs in an hour set, you bet I am going to change my vocals to comfortable keys for my vocal range.
In hundreds of performances only one time has anyone commented about my altered keys and that was a fellow musician who sings some of the songs in HIS key

Maybe it's comforting to know the original singer sang it in the key that was comfortable for them!

Just a thought!

bottom line: THIS^

in our worship band our WL transposes the key all the time to fit his range AND to fit what the congregation will be able to sing along with. if we're singing songs the congregation can't sing because they're too high, then why do them?

that kind of applies for bar bands, too. there will be people singing along if they can reach the notes. if not - Herb's exactly right - they'll notice if YOU can't hit the notes with confidence and will not think anything except that "he can't sing."

When I used to play with our worship group Eb seemed to be the key of choice......used to drive me crazy

Pedward, Seems common with those blinking horn players. (Sorry, Matt Finley and Bob Norton) Ducking the flying brass.

Don, you gotta have big brass you-know-whats picking on those two gentlemen

YEP! and Bb!

I played in a wedding band with horns and the keys of choice were Eb, Bb and Ab. That was a great education for this young at the time guitarist.

I transpose everything more or less (The price of being a Baritone.) I'm now experimenting moving stuff around to see how it changes my voice. I record everything for analysis. I blame you lot...... lol

Not a problem for some though. I reckon it is about the best key for Jazz tunes. There's something about Eb...

For a guitarist it can be a pain.....I learned to live with it but E sure would have been easier.....

Mario,

Yeah, I'm keeping my brass covered!

I choose from about a dozen instruments in concerts and gigs, and I'm not counting five trumpets as five, just one. This afternoon's concert, I'm bringing four instruments and that's a record low. But piccolo trumpet counts for two, I guess, since it's such a beast.

Anyway, they are pitched in F, G, A, Bb, and C. You pick a key, I'm all over it with something.

And Bob is better than me.

Us drummers hate it too! Especially drop tuning the cymbals. What a pain!

Good answer!

ah, so it's always the drummers' fault that no one is in tune with each other, eh?

Well, I don't know about being in tune, but I've played in some bands where it was the drummers' fault that no one else was able to hear each another.

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