Hi

I am still pondering what way to go.

1 hardware sound module.

2 vsti sounds.

3 upgrade to ultra pluspak and get going with the real tracks etc.

Been looking on ebay and to get a decent sounding module, I would have to pay about 200.00 gbp.

And I could upgrade to ultrapluspak for the same money.

Just don't want to go one way then regret it .

So any advice more than welcome, I know it is down to certain things and preference

But I would just like to know how good is the realtracks, ive listened to the demos and they sound awesome.

Would love to hear views from forum members about the modules or the realtracks.

I only have the pro version at the moment .

I appreciate your methodical approach to research opinions. It really is going to come down to how you use it. Your ProPak does come with some RealTracks, so you should be able to audition at least some styles. To be more sure, you could first buy one add-on RealTrack package in your preferred genre.

But be careful you aren't comparing different things, since you are really asking two questions. The RealTracks are audio. They will sound as good as any other audio on your system. The reason you would buy a VSTi or a hardware sound module (I use a Roland Integra-7) is to hear the MIDI, primarily on the Melody and Soloist tracks and perhaps on other tracks in place of a RealTrack.

Make sense? I suspect you are asking how best to spend a limited budget. If melody/harmony are most important to you, look at the sound software or hardware. If backing tracks are most important, go for more RealTracks. But if you want opinions whether a software synth (VSTi or DXi) is better than a hardware module (like my Roland) for melody/harmony and some backing tracks, then we can have that discussion.

yea it makes sense Mark

I guess what I am asking are the real tracks i.e. what you get for the money worth it as in workable ...what are the limitations if any..

just at a crossroads where I realize how much I need to spend.

And what my choices are and before I leap into one or the other, was just looking for opinions from forum members who might have been where I am today.

Then I'm way wrong to answer. I've used the program since the early 1990s and always with as much as they offered.

But I will say, the RealTracks are only limited in three ways I can think of:

1. the audio quality is 16 bit/44.1 K otherwise known as CD quality
2. there may not be a RealTrack that exactly matches the style you want (but you can request they make one)
3. your imagination

Anyone else?

Well without realizing it I think you have helped me, and answered my questions.

If you have been using to the limit all those years it must be worth it.

Thanks

4-Realtracks are not as easily modified as MIDI. You can cut and paste Realtracks to get what you want and many here are experts that will help. On the plus side you can get everything you need in one package, i.e. BiaB.

5-MIDI can easily be modified. Take a piano track and change the sound to organ, flutes, synths, what ever you have. MIDI tracks fill follow tempo, key changes and octaves with no artifacts. You can easily change one or two notes in a chord and you can not do that with Rrealtracks. The downside is that you must not only learn how to use MIDI but also the cost of really good sounding MIDI sound sources can be quite high.

BiaB does come with a GM MIDI sound source but it is not very good. It also comes with a non GM sound source in Sampletank 2.5 which is much better sounding but must be set up properly in BiaB. You can get better GM sounding MIDI sound sources for around $50 or you can get some free soundfonts and a soundfont player, also free, but again you must set that up in BiaB also.

If I were in your shoes I would get the Realtracks. Then later you can mess around with the MIDI side of BiaB with what comes with the package.

Note that I almost always use MIDI in my songs and I am biased toward MIDI but in your case I would choose Realtracks.

Also note that BiaB comes with a DAW, Realband, so you do not have to invest money in one. In fact I would learn Realband while you are learning BiaB. There are some things that Realband can do the BiaB can't.

Great additional points by Mario.

Colly, I've been a pro musician for well over 50 years. My needs are likely different from yours, since I've used BIAB as a tool from almost its beginning.

"...And I could upgrade to ultrapluspak for the same money...."


I would do that. You won't regret it. Comparing Real Tracks vs. MIDI is a little misleading. I can finish a song in RT's in two hours. Try that with MIDI.

Not that you can't still use MIDI with BIAB; but this is the best of both worlds.


Regards,

Bob

thanks Mariod

Both your comments are what I was looking for, to best explain myself.

I have been involved with midi from back in the 90s,using sound modules as a solo act.

Back then I used a programme to edit midi files if I remember Cakewalk i.e. removing sys files and changing instruments etc.

Then and now I have always been on the look out for the best sound you can get from midis.

Now I am missing it all so much I am thinking of putting a solo/duet act together and looking for the best realistic sound I can get within my budget.

I have tts1 and coyote ,sample tank halion cakewalk sound centre. Installed in biab I then use acid for my daw or Cubase.

I know how to use them setting up different instruments to tracks

But I feel the faster tempo songs don't have the feel..?

Although I am amazed at the sounds I am getting from the soft synths ( better than I was getting from the sound module back then )for ballads, medium tempo songs.

I guess I was really asking is the real tracks the best bang for my buck.

Also I did not have the best sound module back then, probably a basic one.

I am now wondering would it be a sound module or real tracks hence my first post.

Guess when you look at it the sound module I am looking at are from the 90s, all be it top of the range from ebay back then.

So you are probably right I think its the real tracks that would suit me now.

I do and always will love midi but when your starting to gig I think we all want the best we can for the audience.

Thanks for helping me out

90db Thanks that's the kind of stuff I was looking to hear

Mark

Thanks again

As I said in my post before this you answered a lot for me.

I was also pro throughout the nineties if by that you mean you earn your living only from doing this.

I stopped in the year 2000 my last gig was the millennium.

When I left to start my business.

So going back to it now I do want to put together a decent act like I had before.

So you did hit it on the nail for me.

Well I had a tome written but given these last two posts I'll summarize

REMEMBER, and I HIGHLY recommend you take advantage of: PG offers 30 days money back - so you CAN SAFELY (no one has ever reported here that PG did not honor that I remember ever seeing) buy that UltraPlus Pak without worry and then EXERCISE THE CRAP out of RTs and BIAB styles for next 30 days and then you'll know.

Later you can, and probably WILL, add good full featured synths (plugs or HW) and not just GM capable synths (you said you already have some synth plugs and a good GM synth (TTS-1).

Me I do probably 85%-15% (SYNTHS to RT's, see my signature block). I do simple "small combo" style rock (OLD rock: I'm an old, bald[ing], fat fart and will probably kill over with heart attack before I finish typing), blues, jazz standards, smooth jazz, and synth heavy "mood" music and I can honestly say - I do it ALL BADLY.

GOOD LUCK

Larry

Brilliant Larry

Yea I am not so young myself although I am ...older than I once was ..younger than ill be..

Thanks for the input I probably will drop in a track or two using the s/w synths.

That does bring me to ask when you render them with real tracks do the midi tracks balance nicely.

Though I better not post anymore don't want to be a nuisance..

Take care

I am an old fart also!

Anyway yes you can balance the volumes of both MIDI and RealTRacks easily as BiaB does have a mixer included!

Colly,

I agree with Larry. Get the UltraPlusPak. There are over 2,500 Realtracks and it's amazing what can be done with those. The audio quality is terrific. If you got to the Soundcloud link in my signature, you'll be able to hear some of my original songs. Over 95% of these songs were created using the UltraPlusPak. (Today I use the Audiophile edition of the software.)

For my own journey...

I began with the MegaPak in 2006. BIAB was midi-only then. Then, at the first opportunity that money permitted, I upgraded to the UltraPlusPak (UPP). As the years passed, maintaining the UPP with all Realtracks became a regular exercise. With the Christmas sale that PG Music usually have, yearly upgrades have always been extremely good value at sale time.

Now that I have become more experienced in music production, I find that I supplement what I do with Realtracks with an occasional midi track. The bottom line, though, is that it's the Realtracks where I make the large majority of my music. I could easily live without midi but I could not so easily live without Realtracks.

Regards,
Noel

• my latest song (a co-write with J&B): I Won Life's Lotto

Noel96

Thanks for the post I just got what see my signature means...!.

will go and have a listen to your songs...was biab originally all Midi then..?

I came across it through it being mentioned on another forum.

Really new to forums, but getting there a minefield of information.

Going for the ultra plus pak made my mind up.

Thanks to you all.

Noel96

Brilliant songs... pro sound...excellent lyrics.

You just SOLD ultraplus pak to me seriously !!

Take care

Thanks

Me I do probably 85%-15% (SYNTHS to RT's, see my signature block).

Sorry Larry where is your signature block.

Really new to forums

Colly,

Thanks for listening and for the comments. You won't be sorry (well, I'll be incredibly surprised if you are). I don't know for sure but, from what I read, the UltraPlusPak seems to be the most popular package on the forums.

If you get a chance, have a listen to floyd jane, too. He's also an UltraPlusPak person.

https://soundcloud.com/floydjane

Once you get the package, if you need help at any time, you're always welcome on the forum.

All the best,
Noel

• my latest song (a co-write with J&B): I Won Life's Lotto

With Real Tracks and BIAB, prepare for a steep learning curve and some frustration as you realise what BIAB can and can't do, which you just have to work through. It's a worthwhile journey and there's plenty of help and support for whatever level you're at or direction you go both on the forum and from PG Music.

Look at small print at very bottom of my post, and Matt's posts, and most peoples posts... it's just above "Reply" and "Quote" etc. buttons.

BTW a suggestion: if you start using BIAB and want fast help from forum members it doesn't hurt to at least put PC basic info (operating system, CPU & speed, RAM, HDD size(s) and SPACE left, type/brand of audio and MIDI interfaces', etc.)


And to answer your other question, in your recent post, yes BIAB started as just MIDI until about 2007'ish and like Matt, and more than a few folks here, I've been with BIAB a long time, since V2 for DOS.

Good Luck
Larry

Larry Noel

Ok thanks

will look into both of your suggestions and advice.

Lambada

Thanks for your info, I guess it is like a lot of things.

The more you put in the more you get.

I know I'm late to this discussion.... however....

Midi, sound modules and VST's have their place and in certain kinds of music, are indispensable.

However, if you are looking for something that sounds like it was all done by live players, you really need to buy the real tracks and do that as far up the available versions as you can afford.

as far as saying real tracks are not as easy to edit.... I find that to be a simple matter of how much time you're willing to put into a project. With a good DAW, you can easily edit one, or multiple tracks. For example, the guitar solo in THE BEST CHRISTMAS is a compilation of edits from 5 of the same guitar track in Real Band's Real Tracks. The cool thing is that none of those 5 tracks, although they are from the same basic RT, are identical. They are audio, as has been pointed out, but with the proper tools and experience, editing audio is as easy as editing midi.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding..... or in this case the songs created by those tracks. More than once, when using the real tracks, I have had other musicians hear a song I did and ask me "who is playing the steel?"... or the fiddle, or the piano....or "what studio in Nashville did you use?" I have never had that occur when I use midi. Never.

Have a listen to the song I mentioned and other songs I have created using the RT's in my studio.

The Best Christmas>>> http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11971116

You can find the other songs in my signature link below.

Yep... Buy the Real Tracks and start working with them. You won't regret it.

You might want to start watching the BiaB videos now:

http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm

as well as reading some of the Tutorials:

http://www.pgmusic.com/howtos.htm

Guitarhacker

Thanks for your input I have purchased ultraplus pak and downloading it all just now.

I have listened to your songs and they are brilliant...I did not know either that these were done in biab at first.

Seriously thought studio when I heard some of the guy's and gal's songs.

That is what sold me I am really glad I asked as much as I did on the forum,as I usually jump in head first.

Can I ask ..I am downloading all the files to a spare h/drive...would I then just install biab on my c: drive and leave the files on the spare drive....is that the best way..?

Mariod

Thanks for the links I am on it as I type.

Like a wee sponge soaking it all in.

Oh and good luck with the diet.

Sure, you can do that.

Install BIAB in C:\BB, the default the program uses.
Install RealBand in C:\RealBand.

You get to choose where you want all your real tracks, real drums, etc. (THE BIG FILES)
I save those to D:\BB in my case but you could use H:\BB for you.

Thanks Steve

I know what you mean I just wasn't sure.

I'm currently running the entire program from an external HD. There's an option for an install that puts the minimum on the C drive that's needed to run the program with everything else on an external.... and that's how I have this running.

Yea that's the way I will be going soooo.. long on the downloads ahh well.

Patience.