I'd like to spend up to $100 for a set of headphones for mixing BIAB music and vocal tracks. {In case this is pertinent, all songs are lyric driven, important to be able to follow them - stories; rarely a hard R&R song, mostly country/folk, snare/sidestick, not much HH/cymbals.}

Are there any recommendations? Thank you.


Windows 8 and Windows 10
64 bit
Scarlett 2i2 interface
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Reaper
Nectar 2

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HD280Pro

90dB has a good suggestion above.

Another option:
While I prefer the M40f/s (no longer available) the M40x are quite similar -
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ATHM40x

With headphones one thing to consider is how they fit on your head (comfort).
If you have somewhere nearby to try out and try on headphones, it may be worth the trip.

/in my opinion I wouldn't pay more for the M50s, to my ear they are deceiving (enhancing)

I agree about the M50's, they have a slightly boosted low & high end. Most every review states this, and listening to them confirms it.

The M40x has been my go-to headphone since they came out, and before that the M40fs. To MY ears they are the flattest in freq response of all the phones I have tried, and I tried a LOT.

The Mids are what got me, not piercing at all, but every instrument & vocal line clear as a bell, every reverb tail & EQ move absolutely audible. BUT I find them uncomfortable after 1 1/2 -2 hours, to the point of being done for the day. The ear cups are an oval shape, and they fit slightly on the entire circumference of my ear, not around it.

My good ol' AKG240's are THE most comfortable I have ever wore, but they are far from flat...I would not trust a mix done thru them like I would the M40x.

The biggest complaint I have about most all headphones is that they are collapsible...I HATE that "feature". I remove mine often to check the tracks on my monitors (Fostex 641's, PMO.4's, and 6031) and they are ALWAYS collapsing on one side or the other, making quick adjustments a pain!

As rharv says, it IS worth the trip to wear as many as you can, to really "feel" them on your head, the pressure they apply to your ears is everything IMHO...just take some sanitary wipes with ya, to be on the safe side...

I picked up a pair of M40f/s on sale, and thought they were bass-heavy. Later I realized I was mixing my bass too hot through the Sennheisers!



Regards,


Bob

Thanks, guys. Great suggestions.

My hearing blows, but I need a 3rd pair so thought I'd ask the experts.

And I'm SO glad you mentioned the collapsible feature, JCS. I despise that feature! I'm irritatable enough as it is. I'm going to have to buy others. I returned a pair. I wear them for hours and hours and they hurt as well.

I'll go try some on first. Hopefully I'll find the HD20 Pros to try on. If not, I may ask for options on the options.

Greatly appreciated!

I don't 'collapse' mine .. but the ability to 'spin' one side has been an appreciated feature here, especially for vocalists.

Also as 90 dB mentioned, if the M40's sound like something is 'off' (too much bass in his example) it likely is true.
To me they are pretty dang trustworthy/true and reliable.
For $100 I'd start with these.

The funny part is that the older 'f/s' designation means Field Serviceable, but I've never ever needed to, even after years of use.

/jcspro40; yeah I miss my AKG 240s too, but the ATH 40s are a nice thing to have in their place.
//I once traded with a forum member here; he got my M50 set and I got his M40 set .. both sides were happy afterwards. Dollar-wise I lost, but I guess it's all in how you see/hear things. To this day I think I won.

The first question is, open or closed?

If you are using them for tracking (recording) a vocal or acoustic instrument while monitoring a backing track, you need a closed headphone.

If you are mixing, either will do although open is often lighter and more comfortable for longer sessions; closed is better if you have a noisy environment or don't want to annoy others.

I have recommendations for both types at the $100 price point: Grado (open) or SONY 7506 (closed).

Sennheisers in that price range used to hav replaceable cables. The AKG 240 series used to have a switch that would turn the phones off when taking them off of your head which was nice to avoid unnecessary bleed into microphones when not in use.

The only trouble I have ever had out of any AT Headphones I have owned is their ear cup cushions, I ware out 2 sets in a year, and I have 3 pairs of ATH's! They start flaking....basically disintegrating. This is on the "high-end" ones & my 2 pairs of cheapo closed back ones for tracking & practicing!

The M40fs/ and M40x also came with 3 cables that attached to the phones themselves, straight, coiled, and a straight-coiled one, all about 6' in length, but none of these ever went out on me.

And I never purposely collapse my phones, taking them off, then picking them up causes the cups to either fold inward, or collapse like you are placing them in storage....VERY aggravating when this happens every other time you pick them up in a session!

I solved this on one pair by wrapping a piece of gaffers tape around the joint where they fold. If you have long hair that is a pain, and if you have short hair it seems to really hold the heat from your head, creating a hot spot above each cup section...I am looking into a small drill bit & screw, but with my luck I will drill thru the driver!

Thanks, guys. I couldn't find any of them locally (really nearby), but Amazon Prime/free returns, so I ordered the HD20 and SONY 7506 (thanks, Matt) and will be able to do side x side testing.

I think closed is the way to go for me, Matt, but I really appreciate you giving that explanation for each. I'd never seen anything definitive for one vs the other. For me, mixing, definitely. (I used to mix with monitors, but some nice person here suggested headphones and my god the difference!)

Sometimes when tracking, I'll only wear one cup, but it seems to take a little experimenting from song to song.

I'm sure investing a lot (all things being relative). You guys are turning me into a junkie~!

jscpro40
your reply reiterates how important comfort is .. which is obviously very personal, or variable, which is why being able to try them on and use is important.

My cups show signs of wear years later, but not 'disintegrating'.
Obviously environment, care and other factors come into play; but have you had an issue finding replacements? I haven't had to look yet .. so curious.

Andy, you are wise to ask for help since it seems you may be inexperienced with this. One comment about using headphones to mix: you must test a mix on everything you possibly can, including headphones (cans), speakers (monitors), boombox, iPod, car etc. The 'normal' method is to mix with nearfield monitors, then check using headphones, then test on all other places. The headphones will reveal problems in the stereo field, especially phase cancellation, but headphones ONLY is a bad idea. Let me know if any of these terms or concepts need elaboration.

By the way, as was just mentioned, the ear cups can wear out. I've ordered replacements for my 7506 several times.

Wow, you guys must really wear cans ALOT! I purchased 8 sets of AKG K240s phones in about 1993 or so for use in a portable listening setup for automotive sounds. Over the 15 years I worked at that location, while some pairs sprouted legs, not a single set of earcup pads wore out.

The 's' model were closed back, had two drivers per cup, and had the switch I mentioned above.

I don't believe that they sell that particular model any longer.

Right on. Listening on multiple devices. (Worst quality I hear is in the car. That's got to be a real art and going to be another beast to tackle at some point for me. But right now, just me and SoundCloud, other sites. I planned on searching for forum for car stereo tips on that and it's whole other subject, I'm sure.)

My initial issue is that, and I'm sure everyone's tired of me saying it, my hearing is awful. No just saying it, like audiologist awful. Aides. Not deaf, just portions of spectrum I cannot hear. And hearing aides and speakers/headphones are very difficult manage. Squeals and feedback. Somehow, live I get away with it or everyone is too polite to say anything, but when it's digitized and kinda carved in stone, it was very difficult for me to get a consistent read on what I have. I was really straining in mixing (and then trying to steer my voice when recording).

I like the closed phones I have, not 1 year old yet Behringers, but they cost about 12 cents and now that I'm getting a little more experience in mixing, stuff is popping out to me, DAW features, plug-ins, and I want to drill down a little more.

Good explanation; your questions make good sense given your hearing.

I'm wondering if you have considered getting a good equalizer (hardware) or at least an EQ plugin. You could use it to boost the frequencies you don't hear as well, to bring you back to 'normal'. This is just thinking out loud. I know there are some much more knowledgeable folks on this forum about hearing.

Hmmmmm...food for thought, Matt .

Good night to you all. Thank you for your cotinued hel9.

Andy, I used to work for a company that specialized in products for hearing and hearing enhancement. Our controller at the company had hearing loss in both ears; one side worse than the other. I was able to make a custom listenening system for him using stacked graphic equalizer VST plugins in a DAW, that somewhat compensated for each ears' HL curve, with custom in ear monitor playback. In ear monitors could also be an option for you. I was able to save songs for him using these new EQ curves and he absolutely loved these recordings that he would listen to with his in ear monitors instead of his hearing aids. I had to stack EQ plugins because his loss was pretty severe. I used the EQ to just make the music have what would be 'flat' fo his unique HL per ear.

I'm not going to lie, it was a lot of work to convert even just one or two CDs of material, but this might be something for you to consider, for your own personal enjoyment. Care should be taken with this approach to avoid playback so loud that it could further damage remaining hearing capability.

Wow! That's really an incredible story. A life-changer for him!

I have what is generally the loss most folks have, in the middle frequencies. It's a dipping bell curve. For example, pre-aides, I'd never had to ask a guy to repeat what he said (low), but young women (high) could stand right in front of me in a whisper-quiet office environment and I couldn't understand a syllable, repeated many times. Now I hear them crisply, but don't know what they are really saying, young or old.

I limped along for years, then 2 years ago bit the bullet. I could NOT believe what I had been missing, especially singing. It was like the first time I got glasses. I had no idea anyone could see that far. Modern aides are pretty spendy, lots of adjustments can be made by the doc, so they are dialed in as well as can expected, I control them with a smartphone app. And they are hidden behind the ear, ...no one even knows I wear them.

In reality, they are really just microphones and speakers. Just really complex, micro-circuity equipment. But we all know that mics/speakers have limitations in the real world. I don't really need to wear them all the time, though I do. But I can't cover them with ear cups or they feedback. But, even the 12 cent headphones I use now are pretty awesome for me. I am looking forward to getting the new sets to do the Pepsi challenge with.

Thanks, again, to all of you guys.

I just bought the ATH-M70x headphones from Sweetwater, $299.00 but I can make 24 payments with their credit card, no interest, been using Sweetwater for years. Very flat response, check the specs, they are I think better than my VXT 6 monitors.

Andy, I would suggest that you try making your own hearing loss compensation EQ in your DAW so that you can wear good quality phones without hearing aids. I can walk you through how to do this if you get your HL curves from your audiologist.

....that is the nicest gesture, Scott. I sure will get the info and I'll message you.

Wow...Thank you, Scott.

Thanks, Critter. They are out of my budget range, I'm sure they are awesome. Probably throwing pearls before swine, though. I might not really be able to tell the difference.

I got the Sonys and HD 280s today, so I'll be testing them out. They both sound fantastic and are comfortable. It will be a hard decision.

Thank you, again, to all.

I've been using the ATH-40f/s for a long time. Bought a second pair when I heard they were being discontinued. I use mine a lot. Eventually they shed and I have to get new covers. The newer model was supposed to fix that but I haven't tried those so can't say.

Andy hope you will update us on which pair you wind up keeping. And I hope you don't mind if I ask this here. Does anybody know how long headphones are supposed to last? Not talking about ear pad covers - does the quality of sound in them degrade over time? I've seen some really old ones on ebay. I wouldn't buy an old pair like that but it made me curious about headphone real usable lifespans. ???

I've never had one where the sound deteriorated in any way. I suppose it might be possible to do the equivalent of blow the speaker, but it hasn't happened in my 55 year experience. There's only between one and two volts max going into it.

Headphones have plenty of parts that break but the sound is either fine or gone; it doesn't degrade.

I need Josie and Bob to pick stocks for me. Their investment in the discontinued ATH 40 f/s, for (and I'm making a WAG here) $100 or less, had a 350% return! $450 a pair now, and as rare as hen's teeth.

I ordered the Sonys, ATHX, and HD280 Pros. The other suggestions were very helpful and greatly appreciated. I couldn't bring myself to order more, knowing I'll return all but one.

I can definitely hear a difference, but it's hard for me to tell which would be the best choice overall. The HD280s are the most comfortable and seal completely, like with no tracks playing, I can't hear anything in the outside world. I can wear them for hours without discomfort, which is the way I like it, just need to let a little heat out occasionally. The only drawback is the cable coiling. For my situation it catches on the desk, like stepping on an untied shoestring, but there's a work around, binding the coil at the interface, and using an extension cord.

Scott's helping me with an EQ plug-in adjustment and I'm really stoked! He's a mensch! You all are!

Cool story (you may have heard it);
I had my first set of M40s and thought 'well this time I'll get the M50s', because they must be better, right?
I ended up trading my new M50s with a forum member here and he gave me his new M40s.
We both felt like we won.
I still do. I can see both sets from here.

Nope, found a couple sellers on eBay that had ones identical to the originals for $3.99 a pair shipped from Mars, or $6.99 a pair shipped from NY. Both were the exact same, so I bought 4 pairs from the NY guy.

When I find his eBay ID I will update this post....

They cost a little more, but I use the Sennheiser HD6 mixing headphones, and am delighted. As ever, you have to listen to a mix on several systems to make sure its right. My acid test is to make a CD and listen to it in the car. if it sounds good there, it's finished.

Thank you, JC and Will.

I'll keep the Sennheiser HD6 in mind. Of course everything is subjective, that day, that song, how much sleep you got.

Previously, I bought 4 various sets (not including the HD6) and kept the HD 280 Pros. For me, they were/are awesome. The HD6s are rated a little higher (again, that's subjective), so might have been a good set to test also. I bet you do like them.

Eventually I'll get a 2nd set of something and will certainly check out the 6s. Thanks for the tip, Will!

I love the Sennheiser HD6s, so consider this another vote for them from me!

Go for the Mo-Fi headphones. They are a bit pricy but worth the money.

I like recording vocals with one cup on, closed headphones. Do open headphones achieve that also, or what are they designed for? I find having both cups on, with my very good closed set (HD 280s) doesn't give me enough in-the-moment sound and I'm flat/sharp a lot. The HD's are great for mixing, coupled with good monitors (and trials on other cd players,car, etc.).

Thanks.

You would not use open headphones as you record vocals; the sound would bleed into the mic.

Headphones are like stereo speakers in that they are all biased or add coloration to the sound. Be aware of that up front. To minx on them you will need to "learn them".

That said, almost every studio has them and they are critical for monitoring during recording takes.

My advice.... for what it's worth.

Go to a music store and try them. Ask the sales guy to let you try the ones you are interested in possibly buying. You will find that they sound quite different from each other.

Find a pair that feel good and are comfortable. remember, you'll likely be wearing them for several hours at a time. Next is the sound quality. Listen to the lows and the highs and the mids. In fact, I highly recommend that you carry your own source material on a laptop, phone, or mp3 player and an adapter in case they are 1/4" plugs. Play the same material for each pair you try. A good source song is Heart's Magic Man. It has synths that are high and it also has that dive-bombing super low synth in it to test the bottom response as well as the standard instruments and vocals. Also select a song of the same genre and style that you plan to work with. Put the cans through their paces.

My story on cans. I went to the store with a budget of $300 top. I was looking for a pair to replace my existing Yamaha rh5ma cheap cans. I bought those on an impulse buy from the 50% off bargain bin in a Guitar Center store for $30. They don't sound bad. In fact I use them all the time in my studio and have even mixed...as in final mix.... several songs on them. They work and sound good and are comfortable enough to wear for hours of recording and mixing.

I went to the store with my mp3 player and my ear buds that cost $20. (Creative EP-630). Note that these ear buds are well built and have exceptionally good sound quality and superb low end reproduction, due to the rubber ear-cups that seal quite nicely. They are sound reducing and I have used them in a pinch when mowing the lawn and shooting my rifle to reduce the ambient dB level to prevent hearing damage. Back to the store... I tried several of the cans in the +$200 range and compared them to the sound in the 630's. End result....all of the cans were disappointing. I could hear no discernible improvement in sound reproduction with the high dollar cans over the $20 ear buds. I walked out of the store having bought nothing. The 630's had the same or similar sound quality, and in one case better sound quality than the cans costing nearly 15 times as much.

You want to audition the cans you plan on buying and just remember that the price of the headphones doesn't always equate to better sound. Trust your ears and not the hype from the ads or the salesman in the store.

BTW: You can still buy the Yamaha rh5ma cans on Amazon brand new for around $50 And the Creative EO-630's for $20 on Amazon. And, BTW.... I have used my ear buds when tracking vocals. Talk about having almost ZERO bleed into the mic.... nothing even close to the cans which do tend to bleed.

My 2 cents worth

All good info. I didn't think about bleeding, Matt.

Herb, that is great to know. I need another set and I'll look for those. And listen.

Thanks, guys.

Bleed happens. No matter what you use...closed back, open back, ear buds..... it all depends on how loud the mix is in the cans and how sensitive the mic is. A good condenser will pick up the bleed no matter how low it is in the cans. The big question is will it be an issue? Generally if you do some editing of the vocal track with volume envelopes or mute, you can get rid of it. The problem with either of those arises when you have reverb trails in the track. You can't mute those.... but again, if the bleed is of the program material and the source is playing, you got a nice coverup happening and no harm no foul.

singing flat while tracking vocals using cans is a time honored tradition!

If you have issue with this, and want to avoid bleed, one cup off does work - just set the playback balance to feed only the cup that is on your head.

You can do this in your DAW or on your headphone amp if it has a balance control which it probably doesn't.

Some people just cut the wire to one side of the headphones.

Thanks, guys.

RS, if so, I am a CHAMPION!

I try the balance deal (such an obvious thing to try. DOUGH!) cut a wire, and try removing a cup. I have several cruddy sets that I can experiment with.

Happy Monday!

SO sorry for the late reply, I just remembered this while ordering a few sets....

From China, where I have bought before & was happy with..


http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Leather-Ear-Pad-Cushion-For-Audio-technica-ATH-M40x-M50S-M20-M30-M40-ATH-SX1-/171991221358?hash=item280b79c46e:g:RfwAAOSwMmBVyDpH


I can not find the NY guy, but here is one here in the US of A...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Ear-Pads-for-ATH-M50-M50S-M20-M30-M40-Audio-Technica-Headphones-/182509807086?hash=item2a7e6ea5ee:g:drEAAOSwxg5X0s2I


Hope this helps!

Thanks! I'll check them out!

Matt, I removed one cup and covered that stump with a thick (clean) sock. MAN is it comfortable. And MAN it works fantastically for me.

I've learned a lot about recording over the past couple of weeks; I have a deadline for CD songs submittal tonight. I uploaded all the songs Friday, and artwork, then the pressure was off, AND it gave me the whole weekend to listen to them, tweak, upload again, frankly as many times as I want as long as what is there Monday morning for mastering is the final files.

The good news is Audio Technica told me on Saturday they ARE working on releasing the ATH M40s again due to popular demand and seeing how much users liked them. The rep said he hears this request at almost every audio show he attends.

He said they are about a year and half behind the date they had hoped to release them because they want to 'get it right' and not just use the name to sell headsets, which was encouraging.

You can, actually, but if you do, you will find Izotope's RX 6 to be a very useful tool.

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/repair-and-edit/rx/rx-standard.html

One of the new tools is D-bleed and that's what it is designed to tame.

RX 6 was just released a few days ago so introductory pricing, cross-grades and other deals abound. Check your favorite reseller. I'm a long-time RX Advanced user and pulled the trigger on day one. Other tools include De-noise, De-hum and the new De-plosive (formerly only in RX 5 Advanced). If you have noise issues, RX is a life and time saver.

Back to the topic. The Sony 7506 is good but I prefer the flatter, extended frequency response of the original MDRV6. Sony has discontinued them a few times over the last 30 years but many pros won't use anything else, myself included. The 7506 is a variant of the V6 with an enhanced midrange so that they are easier to hear in a noisy environment. The third version is the V600, designed for club DJs — avoid for critical listening (I have all three).

Thanks for the tip on D Bleed.

I concur on the V600 also.

Can I get a free ride on this topic? I have similar interests.

I am close to buying the AKG K52. I chose it after extensive research and... well, my budget is really tight. I know there are better ones, but I really can't afford them.

Any recommendations against it?

They seem to have lots of good reviews, and for the cost you're really not risking much.
Whatever you end up getting; take the time to learn them. Their weaknesses and strengths.
You may find them excellent for your needs.
Weird that a search for this model also shows the AKG 240s are also still available. I thought these were discontinued years ago (?).
https://www.amazon.com/AKG-240-Semi-Open-Studio-Headphones/dp/B0001ARCFA/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1493685463&sr=1-1&keywords=akg+240
Another very nice option ..

But the AKG 240s are semi-open back headphones thus don't you risk sound bleeding with them? The AKG K52 are closed back, thus no bleeding.

I have read the semi and open back head phones can cause problems like this. I have no personal experience as I only have used closed back. YMMV

You're right. Open or semi-open cans will bleed, but they're also supposed to provide a much better soundstage.

I've seen reviews stating that the K52 has great soundstage in spite of being closed. I don't trust everything I read on the Internet, shills are everywhere, but it seems to be the best bet within my low budget.

What! Not everything on the Internet is true! You just ruined my day!


Run and ducking for cover

A long time ago the K240s were closed back. They also had a switch triggered off of the headband so if you took them off your head they would mute the speakers in each ear cup. Reason: to avoid bleed when someone wasn't wearing them.

Maybe it was the K270s.