Help with Creating RTS - PG Music Forums

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1. UserTracks.

These are like RealTracks. You record a WAV file along to a standard BiaB song (SGU). Put it in a folder (the folder’s name is the name you want for the UserTracks), and then put the folder in the RealTracks\UserTracks folder. You can add multiple sgu/wav songs to the same folder to get more variations.

OK, a few questions for Andrew or (Anybody)

1. When I look into the RT folders under (Guitar, Electric .....) I notice some of the 'RTs' files are 4, 5, 6 and up to 10+ mins long as continuous riffs. In most cases it is apparent that they are several riffs strung together to make these long RTs. (As opposed to many short .wav files)Is there a 'recommended' length that would provide the greatest support for the user (variation, lack of instant repetition etc?) A Minimum Length and a Max. Length (For guitar)

2. The 'instructions above' mention to record 'along' with a SGU. Is this simply for reference or do I actually need to 'record' in BIAB? Can't I just take a 'Style" I am familiar with or import one into a DAW for instance, choose a base BPM and record the RTs'? Then create the folder and insert all of my newly created files into it?

3. I know what a .SGU file is, but what is a sgu/wav file as described above?

4. The main naming convention in the BIAB folder for guitars is (eg6156, eg6157 etc.) Are these relevant for BIAB or simply for PG music reference? Also each file has a BTO fill associated with it. Is it needed to create one of those?

Many thanks!

RG

5. What is the difference between RTs and 'Artist' tracks? I can see how they differ in regards to how they can be manipulated based on the description, but will there be a tutorial to show the actual differences? Thank you!~

6. What about sample rate and bit depth? is 16/44.1 the norm for RTs? In other words to play well with other RT's?

These are great questions. I am planning on making some UserTRack Oohs and Aahs for backing vocal tracks. It would be nice to see what it actually takes to make one. I am just guessing but i imagine when the rush dies down maybe a tutorial video?

I was actually the first to make one.I put a post on how to make a basic one. You should try that first to get your feet wet.
Making RTs is going to be as complex and in depth as the whole program. BIAB is a very, very easy prog to get results out of. Type in some chords, pick a style and press play. We all know it's more complex then that. making your own Rts is easy but can also become very complex. Start at the beginning. Make a simple on first from my tutorial.

Originally Posted By: silvertones

I was actually the first to make one.I put a post on how to make a basic one. You should try that first to get your feet wet.
Making RTs is going to be as complex and in depth as the whole program. BIAB is a very, very easy prog to get results out of. Type in some chords, pick a style and press play. We all know it's more complex then that. making your own Rts is easy but can also become very complex. Start at the beginning. Make a simple on first from my tutorial.

Thanks John. I sincerely appreciate the tutorial. The 'complex' or depth is what I am prepped for. Looking / listening to the RTs as a whole I can see the intent, approach and mindset behind a full set of custom high-quality well recorded RTs. That part I am genuinely excited about. The basic 'mechanics' behind the application I need to manage.

Ill start from the bottom and work my way up, LOL. Cheers.

Originally Posted By: TexasHeartRush

Originally Posted By: silvertones

I was actually the first to make one.I put a post on how to make a basic one. You should try that first to get your feet wet.
Making RTs is going to be as complex and in depth as the whole program. BIAB is a very, very easy prog to get results out of. Type in some chords, pick a style and press play. We all know it's more complex then that. making your own Rts is easy but can also become very complex. Start at the beginning. Make a simple on first from my tutorial.

Thanks John. I sincerely appreciate the tutorial. The 'complex' or depth is what I am prepped for. Looking / listening to the RTs as a whole I can see the intent, approach and mindset behind a full set of custom high-quality well recorded RTs. That part I am genuinely excited about. The basic 'mechanics' behind the application I need to manage.

Ill start from the bottom and work my way up, LOL. Cheers.

Once you have confidence that it works then you can start experimenting and implementing more and more. You'll eventually learn the mechanics. I don't think anyone yet knows the total mechanics involved for complex parts.

THR, Check out Paul Franklin's take on how he created the RealTracks we hear on BB. Fact or Fiction? Go to The Steel Guitar Forum/Band In A Box/Learning From Paul Franklin Samples. Last post was 10-13.

It is interesting anyway.------Leon

Originally Posted By: Leon Carpenter

THR, Check out Paul Franklin's take on how he created the RealTracks we hear on BB. Fact or Fiction? Go to The Steel Guitar Forum/Band In A Box/Learning From Paul Franklin Samples. Last post was 10-13.

It is interesting anyway.------Leon

Thanks Leon. Sure, that is exactly as I would presume, or some variation of it. As a career musician it is easy to hear the 'find and retrieve' indexed/cataloged etc.. method that BIAB is doing to create audio phrases. The lack of consistency or themes in the 'musicality' in a longer progression is always apparent. Still, this is no detriment to the progress of the program IMO.

There are few 'solos' that would actually be pieced together, crafted in the real world like the ones created by BIAB. PG has created a method by which this works pretty well as a bonafide musicians/songwriter 'support' tool and IMO has done some very creative and groundbreaking audio bending with BIAB.

This 'connecting' the pieces could only be possible by approaching the recording of the BIAB instruments with this forethought. I am positive massive hours of R&D took place to determine how to record phrases for the program to best utilize the written code. That in itself is what impresses me.

When I heard we could record our own RTs, I was excited because I personally can 'reverse' engineer the pre-recorded RT files and create my own to match. I understand the intent even if i do not have the details. But as is, I was mistaken to some degree. The method by which 'user tracks' will be recorded and implemented seems less complex and actually a different function altogether. That is speculation, but it seems that way. Anyway, I appreciate PG music, BIAB and the massive support it offers. It has been massive contribution to this world of songwriting and musicianship. I feel for anybody who has been a part of this great process and yet feels the need to diminish it in anyway. They are missing the point and the genius behind the product and the contribution they made to it IMO. Cheers!

Originally Posted By: TexasHeartRush

There are few 'solos' that would actually be pieced together, crafted in the real world like the ones created by BIAB. PG has created a method by which this works pretty well as a bonafide musicians/songwriter 'support' tool and IMO has done some very creative and groundbreaking audio bending with BIAB.

Absolutely true! It is very rare that one can generate a satisfactory solo in a single take. I always generate 3 to 5+ tracks and then cut, paste and move things around in my DAW to arrive at something I like.

That said, being able to make my own 'Real Tracks' is reason enough, by itself, to upgrade.

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1. When I look into the RT folders under (Guitar, Electric .....) I notice some of the 'RTs' files are 4, 5, 6 and up to 10+ mins long as continuous riffs. In most cases it is apparent that they are several riffs strung together to make these long RTs. (As opposed to many short .wav files)Is there a 'recommended' length that would provide the greatest support for the user (variation, lack of instant repetition etc?) A Minimum Length and a Max. Length (For guitar)

The only restrictions on recording length would be the same as any Band-in-a-Box song, because a matching chord chart for each .WAV file is needed.
maximum bars: 255 bars (x number of choruses)
minimum bars: 1 bar

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2. The 'instructions above' mention to record 'along' with a SGU. Is this simply for reference or do I actually need to 'record' in BIAB? Can't I just take a 'Style" I am familiar with or import one into a DAW for instance, choose a base BPM and record the RTs'? Then create the folder and insert all of my newly created files into it?

Yes, the .SGU is just for reference, so you do not need to record in Band-in-a-Box although it might be convenient to record along to a chord chart. The .WAV files can come from anywhere, such as any DAW, or files that you already have.

Quote:

3. I know what a .SGU file is, but what is a sgu/wav file as described above?

"sgu/wav" just means a .WAV file and a .SGU file with the exact same name in the same folder. This would be an example inside your UserTracks folder:
C:\bb\RealTracks\UserTracks\MyUserTrackFolder\song1.wav
C:\bb\RealTracks\UserTracks\MyUserTrackFolder\song1.sgu

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4. The main naming convention in the BIAB folder for guitars is (eg6156, eg6157 etc.) Are these relevant for BIAB or simply for PG music reference? Also each file has a BTO fill associated with it. Is it needed to create one of those?

Those file names are for RealTracks which are not the same thing as UserTracks. With UserTracks, you can name your files however you like, eg:
song1-majorchords.wav
song1-majorchords.sgu
endings.wav
endings.sgu
otherchords.wav
otherchords.sgu

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5. What is the difference between RTs and 'Artist' tracks? I can see how they differ in regards to how they can be manipulated based on the description, but will there be a tutorial to show the actual differences? Thank you!~

If you mean Artist Performance Tracks - these are recorded songs by various artists. They do not generate over chord progressions like RealTracks do.

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6. What about sample rate and bit depth? is 16/44.1 the norm for RTs? In other words to play well with other RT's?

Yes, 16bit 44.1kHz is the playback bit depth and sample rate of Band-in-a-Box (including RealTracks), so it is best to use this format for UserTrack files.

Originally Posted By: Blake

Quote:

1. When I look into the RT folders under (Guitar, Electric .....) I notice some of the 'RTs' files are 4, 5, 6 and up to 10+ mins long as continuous riffs. In most cases it is apparent that they are several riffs strung together to make these long RTs. (As opposed to many short .wav files)Is there a 'recommended' length that would provide the greatest support for the user (variation, lack of instant repetition etc?) A Minimum Length and a Max. Length (For guitar)

The only restrictions on recording length would be the same as any Band-in-a-Box song, because a matching chord chart for each .WAV file is needed.
maximum bars: 255 bars (x number of choruses)
minimum bars: 1 bar

Quote:

2. The 'instructions above' mention to record 'along' with a SGU. Is this simply for reference or do I actually need to 'record' in BIAB? Can't I just take a 'Style" I am familiar with or import one into a DAW for instance, choose a base BPM and record the RTs'? Then create the folder and insert all of my newly created files into it?

Yes, the .SGU is just for reference, so you do not need to record in Band-in-a-Box although it might be convenient to record along to a chord chart. The .WAV files can come from anywhere, such as any DAW, or files that you already have.

Quote:

3. I know what a .SGU file is, but what is a sgu/wav file as described above?

"sgu/wav" just means a .WAV file and a .SGU file with the exact same name in the same folder. This would be an example inside your UserTracks folder:
C:\bb\RealTracks\UserTracks\MyUserTrackFolder\song1.wav
C:\bb\RealTracks\UserTracks\MyUserTrackFolder\song1.sgu

Quote:

4. The main naming convention in the BIAB folder for guitars is (eg6156, eg6157 etc.) Are these relevant for BIAB or simply for PG music reference? Also each file has a BTO fill associated with it. Is it needed to create one of those?

Those file names are for RealTracks which are not the same thing as UserTracks. With UserTracks, you can name your files however you like, eg:
song1-majorchords.wav
song1-majorchords.sgu
endings.wav
endings.sgu
otherchords.wav
otherchords.sgu

Quote:

5. What is the difference between RTs and 'Artist' tracks? I can see how they differ in regards to how they can be manipulated based on the description, but will there be a tutorial to show the actual differences? Thank you!~

If you mean Artist Performance Tracks - these are recorded songs by various artists. They do not generate over chord progressions like RealTracks do.

Quote:

6. What about sample rate and bit depth? is 16/44.1 the norm for RTs? In other words to play well with other RT's?

Yes, 16bit 44.1kHz is the playback bit depth and sample rate of Band-in-a-Box (including RealTracks), so it is best to use this format for UserTrack files.

Blake! You are brilliant, thank you for the reply. Now you have opened up a great interest and possibilite with one of your replies. I have a specific question: You said

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Yes, the .SGU is just for reference, so you do not need to record in Band-in-a-Box although it might be convenient to record along to a chord chart. The .WAV files can come from anywhere, such as any DAW, or files that you already have.

So how is this possible without a .sgu to match it? In other words if I have a progression to follow in a DAW outside of BIAB, how do I import that so that it is understood by BIAB as a 'User Track" if my imported .wav does not have a .sgu associated with it.

The best way to record excellent user tracks is outside of BIAB. Once I have (or currently have) a .wav that is following a song progression and tempo, can I create and save a .sgu that matches it and then import the .wav file into the same folder with the same name as the .sgu? Hope that makes sense. Many thanks again! I need to go upgrade tonight! Cheers.

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So how is this possible without a .sgu to match it? In other words if I have a progression to follow in a DAW outside of BIAB, how do I import that so that it is understood by BIAB as a 'User Track" if my imported .wav does not have a .sgu associated with it.

The best way to record excellent user tracks is outside of BIAB. Once I have (or currently have) a .wav that is following a song progression and tempo, can I create and save a .sgu that matches it and then import the .wav file into the same folder with the same name as the .sgu? Hope that makes sense. Many thanks again! I need to go upgrade tonight! Cheers.

You DO need a .sgu file to be associated with every .wav file. If you have a .wav file without a matching .sgu, then you need to make a matching .sgu and save it with the same name as the .wav file.