As many know, I've made a lot of MIDI styles.

I've also made a few real tracks, and although the music came out well, the acoustics of my studio are terrible so I nuked them.

But MIDI is another story. Everything is contained in the wires, and it doesn't care about reflective surfaces, standing waves, frequency traps, the garbage truck rolling by, or the helicopter above.

It would so nice to have a way for us to make Super-MIDI tracks.

Bob

+1 Great Idea

A SUPER BIG +1

May be a good idea to rename the Super Midi to "Real Midi". This would align with their counterpart of "Real Tracks" and not get them confused with HIQ Midi. Or is it only me?

That renaming makes good sense to me, for both clarity and marketing reasons.

No, it's not only you Dan.

+1
Yes, if you could just save the midi track as you do the audio track when making a UserTrack.

+1
Excellent idea !

Seein that I already posted this very same suggestion on their facebook page only a few days ago, this gets a very obvious +1

Sounds like a great idea to me as well.

Yes also your engine does not support proper voice leading, maybe I am missing something but how can you voice chords properly just doing vamps?

I am going back to version 12, no more up dates for me.

SB, did you post under the wrong topic? The topic was discussing 'user-created' MST's. I didn't follow your comments.

If you design a user style? How do you determine voice leading? How do U determine how soprano, alto, tenor, bass of a chord goes to the next chord. My understanding is you design a style under a static C7 chord.

Hope that helps

Maybe this will help
take a simple chord progression
dm, c6, bflat6, fmaj7

look at how strings are voiced
each chord gets voiced with parallel voice leading

there is no counterpoint (contrary motion, oblique motion)
I didn't check every style, I am using elegant slow pop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_leading

I thought MIDI could make wiser decisions, based on counterpoint rules

MIDI doesn't make any decisions at all. It only responds to what you tell it to do.

If you want to understand what happens with MIDI styles, you should read carefully the user manual sections about Style Maker, with particular attention to the masks you can apply to each phrase.

And then you need to listen to more than a handful of styles, while studying what you see in Style Maker to better understand the results you are going to get.

However, if you are expecting BIAB to look at your chord progression, possibly along with a melody, and go "Oh, I see what you're trying to do there; here, I think you're really going to like this", then I think your expectations are too high. And that being said, please share with us another program that even comes close to what BIAB does.

A wrote a program that does it,

https://dochub.com/yragroneelf/b9nygm/amaj-7ths

I can translate to any key and have good voice leading.
I don't generate MIDI, just figure out where to put dots on a grid.

If you turned in what band in box generates in a music theory 101 class you would get a F. Its 'all' parallel voice leading. (Maybe not all but at first look I think it may be)

Korg Karma will do it to some degree, if you voice lead in the input the output will match. although it does not have the wonderful layout that band in box has where you can map out the whole song ahead of time. Biab can place the fill in right spot and so forth.

In order to generate bass lines in is has to figure out the root, 3rd, 5th it has to do some analysis.

Biab used to support Nashville numbers so it does have some information needed to make smarter decisions. Also it should have way to support changing parent scale like melodic minor, or harmonic minor.

If it would support melodic minor, harmonic minor, voice leading and Quartal harmony it would be much better.

Real tracks has it place but MIDI is better for music education.

I'm like a deer with no eyes when it comes to all of that sorry.
Could you just do what you need manually, like record a usertrack for each chord, using a midi pickup on your guitar also to get the midi.
In realband you can just highlight the bars then go to Generate UserTrack Audio this will bring the picker up, type your required chord in the search box and it will generate the audio chord of your playing in the bar/s.

As you can't make a midi UserTrack "yet" and yes midi is more flexible to work with stretching & transposing, I would use PowerTracks to open the recorded audio with the corresponding midi, SEQ UserTrack, then you simply highlight the chord/s in the chord window then with snapping On drag the midi Track number straight to where you need the chord in realband this will copy just the highlighted midi chord/s.
This way you are not relying on BB to get it right, as you will get it just how you like.
I use this method with UserTracks as BB tends to screw it up transposing other chords too much instead of using the available correct chords.

yes I found some work around's by deleting the keyboard guitar and strings tracks
so I can do what i want

But I have been Biab user since the beginning, I am supportive of them
I wanted to express my complaints publicly, and give them a chance to respond

From my perspective there is no reason to upgrade after version 12
Just buy the super MIDI tracks

If they are abandoning MIDI then U need to find support else where.

If they are NOT going to support voice leading and music education
then I need to searching for another program to use

I don't know if this would help, I can't remember the name, but there are midi vst's that can change a chord input to a custom chord that you program in to play the chord the way you want.

EDIT: It may of been here:
http://www.thepiz.org/plugins/
or something like http://www.mucoder.net/en/tonespace/
you could also script it in Kontakt
more http://www.codefn42.com/chordz/index.html
http://www.thepiz.org/plugins/?p=midiChords

I'm always ready to consider upgrading each time a new version is released. I haven't found any limitations that are of a such a concern to me not to upgrade, but everyone is different. I'm also a big user of Real Tracks. I think most users are too.
YMMV though.

This should be a separate thread. It has nothing to do with the original topic - SUPER MIDI APP OR INSTRUCTIONS.

Yes, you are right Dave, it got hijacked in post #312973 on 04/10/15 11:01 PM

It is related what are super tracks based on if not the V7 obviously your able to transpose and change the progression if it has to generate a pattern from something.

Is it based on the 1 chord Lydian chord or what?
My point it is not done in a scientific manner that supports voice leading, unless super MIDI fixes this?

I only have 2014, the super midi tracks I have don't make string chart, so I can't really tell what its doing when you change the progression.

2014 crashed, I can't believe users like that, every thing after interface change is way buggy.

You can brag all you want about how users like it but why did I go back to 2012? It's not even stable any more.

You are passionate about it, you see problems and would like them fixed.
That's why I'm here, I have been nagging and complaining to get things fixed, improved or added for years, it is very frustrating but you need to keep at it, then things DO get fixed/improved/added but it is a slow process. Your input is important so don't give up !

As far as I remember, super midi tracks were created by real musicians using midi instruments.

I don't see what "voice leading" or lydian chords have to do with it. (Whatever they are...)

May be you want BIAB to be more scientific, but it is first and foremost a simple way to create music to play along with.

But back to the original issue we do need a way to edit the super midi tracks.

> super midi tracks ... created by real musicians using midi instruments.

Yes but what happens when you change the progression what is using to generate the new tracks

>But back to the original issue we do need a way to edit the super midi tracks.

You can edit the tracks using any sequencer, currently I delete them and create my own because I using lots of rootless chords and progression that use a specific voice leading (common tones between chords or contrary motion)I keep only bass and drums or sometimes I may use part of guitar or piano as variation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrapuntal_motion#Contrary_motion

I don't use band in a box as a MIDI editor, I use old version of cakewalk because it simple, I export the midi once I am satisfied with what I got.

Yes the original complaint is how to create your own super midi style, but my contentions if U use parallel motion in generating the new track then this is not really that different, yes they are different issues but related, I would like to understand how they translate "created by real musicians using midi instruments" to different chord progressions. Previously they used the Mixolodian chord to generate new patters and shifted everything up in parallel motion. If that is still the case then they are separate issues. It belongs in new thread.

Any way a real musician might not use a 1,3,5,7 chord on a Mixolodian chord they may leave out the 5th or it will be related to what was played before it. So I am hoping they are using a different technology here.

Hope that explains what I am talking about.

I really dont see what the big deal is here. A "Midi supertrack" can be nothing but a live recorded MIDI file.

Any sequencer can create one,and yes, under the hood I consider Band in a Box a sequencer, as it plays one note, then the next...)

But of course, so much in BIAB is hard, cack handed, buggy, impossible sometimes, and frequently counter-intuitive.

I am so fed up I won't go deep until there is a rewrite. I have said this before, and so have many others.

REWRITE!

Z

I think that means that Super Midi does not use patterns like regular midi that are used in most styles, but are treated much the same as Real Tracks.

In a midi style, the midi patterns for the midi tracks are easily modified. It looks like they have 2 'formats' voice lead, or riff lead. All midi tracks are built from a C7 chord. Very predictable, but somewhat limiting. I am sure you can add notes other than C,E G Bb, if you want.

Super midi does not appear to follow any of these rules. Yes, you could freeze the track and edit it, or delete if if you wish. But I am not sure why you would generate it, and then delete it.

For me I delete the keyboard/guitar tack if I want to do something fancy like Allan Holdsworth type chord (often are modal and hard to name exactly but will have Dorian or Lydian feel)or quartal harmony or something with a specific voicing

I studied chords a lot so, for now I use Korg Karma do generate some arpeggios off my chords and paste the stock chords into to solo part of biab if in need a reference to play.
I still use biab printer, but I prefer a regular MIDI seq for tweaking.

And yes I agree it became buggy after real tracks.

The type of chords I mentioned are documented in the book Creative Chordal Harmony by Mick Goodrick and Tim Miller or Allan Holdsworth Searching for the Uncommon Chord.

Even if you want to do a Pat Metheny song your better deleting piano parts and using the exact parts in his book