My wish is to have a proper timeline navigator in BIAB.
Navigator that shows a layout of the realtracks / midi / changes at a bar etc. visually-linear, corresponding to timeline. Also, so that tracks are replaceable and editable right from the navigator.

As of now, I find it very unintuitive, crude and almost impossible to know where changes are occurring unless you have very good memory, especially if you are coming back to a project after weeks or even months. Seems like timeline navigator would be very useful to see full map of the project and work with it from human perspective rather "developer style" as it stands now.

This is very simplified sketch of navigator I hope for:

+1

This would be a very useful enhancement, and certainly modernize how some of the events are currently presented.
+1

+1 here. I can see this being very helpful although I could make better use of it in RealBand.

LLOYD S

Certainly, good idea, add a similar feature to RealBand also.

Do you mean like the events in F5 mapped out graphically and editable in a window ?
It would be good if in F5 bar setting you could move from bar to bar and not have to open it for each bar. If you go to the the UserTrack Development button you can change to any bar then change the settings for that bar but you can't do that in the main.

There is a Print Summary button in F5 and in Song Memo:

Pipeline, I am not a programmer, But here is my 3 cents.
The way I imagine, in navigator you should be able to click on any
bar to open "bar option" or even better, define what you want to do when you click on it....play from "this" bar, etc.

I wanted to do another "wish list" item, but since it is related, here goes: I think one of the biggest problem with BIAB (besides 32bit part) is that screen items are not dynamic. Everything should be customizable: what you see on the screen and how you see it. Size, color, position etc. Dockable menus! with some preset scenarios for the people who are not comfortable with tinkering. Some elements are present now, but they are very choppy and not conforming to modern standards at all.

Just curious to know if somebody at PG is listening to user feedback? I am new here..

Ok.. Do not judge my drawing, I am not a designer. This is a more detailed sketch idea of the navigator:

The answer is yes. Many of the improvements to BiaB come from The Wishlist.

That's a great idea, looks good and all seems doable.

VideoTrack made a great conceptual video and some of the ideas have since been added to BB.
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=370075#Post370075

If we could access BB more with API's that allow users to do just about anything rather than waiting years for PG to "maybe" do it.
If you look at Reaper you can do all this with scripts, you can even create you own GUI's without having to use AutoHotKey. This way users have more control, it's like the chord picker tool that was created by a user for user's wanting to do this or that.
If you were in the Reaper forum and suggested this, I or some other user that thought it was a good idea would just script it and it would be there ready to test rather than years down the track.

Here's a list of Reaper API's that will give you an idea of what can be done by the user. https://www.extremraym.com/cloud/reascript-doc/

Pipeline, I am not programmer, but I have a very good understanding what API is and what it is capable of. Funny thing is, I just thought exactly of same thing couple of days ago

VideoTrack had great idea, but I think if whole interface is dynamic and dockable it is even better, because you can do what VideoTrack envisioned plus the benefit of sticking the mixer almost anywhere (or any other "bars" and "buttons")

100% I agree with you that API probably be the "king" of it all.
Not sure how many people using BIAB can write scripts... I am a strong believer in crowd funding on small-medium scale projects. If lets say enough people want certain feature(s) and willing to chip in for developer's time to bring it to life, things would move fast. The "extra" third party features alone should bring new customers to PG.

I think people just do not realize what API+skilled human can do
What about PG? Was the possibility of API ever brought up?

All of this sounds interesting, but count me as one who does not like to “tinker” with anything in BIAB except the basics. Give me presets, with easy options for everything----since I don’t enjoy messing with computers/software programs, or know little about them anyway. I can arrange tunes easily and go play gigs with the present set up of BIAB. That’s all I need or want to do. If suggested changes/improvements/customization make it more complicated, with a lot of new stuff to master, I’ll pass on the annual upgrades.

Larry, if this ever happens, I am very sure BIAB will still have template for "Classic" look so you can always feel "at home"

Mr.Gannon. If you are reading this. With all respect for all great things BIAB can do thanks to you.... Please consider better interface customization...and chord picker integrated. There are very nice things that people offered ideas on. Treasures!

Thank you.

There is a little forum on the subject of the GUI here:
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=362636#Post362636

Pipeline, it is scary to see that frustrations with GUI going so far and solutions that are offered are so alike....

I believe, that problem is that people who do programming are same people who design interface. In my expierence that is not a good combination for such tasks. For unknown reasons (other than friendship) Mr. Gannon keeps them on the team, where in modern world of software design they would have never (ever!) pass the interview for the job as front end designers.

I am 39. Relatively new (but not very young) BIAB user. I see 2 camps here.
"Give me back my Windows 3.1" team and "Time for a change team" For older users: big button "classic view", I respect that. But please do not enslave younger folks to your version of a "happy user".
P.S. It took me a lot of cuorage, but a few years back I made my grandma switch her rotary phone to dialtone set. It was not easy! I've done the dirty deed and threw her old phone out. She was upset for the rest of the day. Now, she is a happy girl. Uses it daily.

Not all older users want to keep the classic view. I am 72 and I want a new GUI like I have on all of my other programs, music ones included.

BUT before any cosmetic only changes I want real changes like the ones I have been wanting for years like 64 bit, time signatures other than 2/4, 3/4 or 4/4, opening up all 16 channels etc. YMMV

Rustyspoon, your age drops the average age here considerably. But don’t think for a moment we old folks don’t know a good interface when we see it.

Mario, do not get me wrong. I have nothing against older people I actually think they are much better contributors than younger kids and most of them see things at deeper perspective.

I am talking about a "few" folks here that are pushing agenda loudly to leave everything untouched. If overhaul of interface is on a horizon, having "CLASSIC VIEW" button for them should be peanuts for a good coder.

True, but are you aware the GUI was improved for BIAB 2017? Based on your forum registration date, you might not know that there already are two views. To see the ‘classic’ view, do a Ctrl+T. It toggles between the older and newer views. Or use the icons, also already there.

Not to say it shouldn’t be further improved (PG Music said it would be) but this represented a good step forward last year.

Matt,
I am aware of changes. I have tried BIAB years ago and was just mentally constipated using GUI. A friend of mine is BIAB user and he suggested to give it another try. I did. Do I regret it? Absolutely not! It is much better than 10 years back, but has to go that last, hardest mile to take things to a new level. This is probably not the right place to spill guts, but since it is topic related, I will try to not bore people too much.

Here goes short essay

My biggest paranoia is that if there are no changes made to modernize this great software (especially 64bit & GUI) it will fade away. You need new customers to bring in new ideas (and of course money). I would estimate, that it will take me about a year more (sometimes with little support of people like you, Jim, VideoTrack, Pipeline and others) to get comfortable with it. I just do not want it to hit a dead end anytime soon.

Two examples of this with a negative and a positive outcomes:

1) Software vArranger by mr.Dan of France. Extraordinary software. Super user friendly interface. Very fast and stable. User base: people 60+ years. Good community, no insults, no bullying. Sounds good? Almost...Software costs a fortune. It was written by a single person who made a lot of money just making exactly what people wanted and as soon as he realized that stream of new customers is drying up, he stopped development. People are ready to pay him for updates, but seems to me (and others) he does not care much about us. Very selfish move. I still will use the software for years to come, but this philosophy on this just bothers me. So in a sense it is a dead end.

2) Cakewalk... I have been using it for years (since late 1990s) . It was a bit boring, but I did not need much from DAW so it was ok. As soon as they hired Noel, things flourished. I got to enjoy recording again. Cakewalk was the first full scale DAW that implemented "touch support" Since I work mostly with audio (vocal tracking) That feature was/is a huge hit for me. I can navigate through the timeline, zoom in tracks with great ease. When Gibson announced sad news, I got depressed as I just got married to this software and it, like unfaithful bride was trying to run away. I knew how to get around in it and had dozens of projects completed and half baked.... I feel that we, (people who use Cakewalk) got very lucky that a good man (Meng) bought it and saved it from being parted out and sold to some greedy corporation as intellectual property. I feel good now about the future of Cakewalk.

To summarize, I do not mind waiting for positive changes from PG / BIAB. I just do not want to dedicate my time learning a pretty complex software if it has only few short years to live.

P.S. People at Cakewalk felt before hand that something fishy was going on with Gibson, but I was very skeptical of that until last moment when "the end" was officially announced and vultures from Cubase and others started offering crossgrades right in Cakewalk forum.

The End.

Ok, thanks. I was just checking that you had the big picture.

By the way, the Gibson CEO has left. While Cakewalk was left to itself, things went well.

Better rendering of navigator idea when fully expanded.

Collapsed:

+1 for Rustyspoon#'s rendition.

Or perhaps just part of the "right click on any bar" menu as a toggle to "Turn Navigator On" (or off).

I hesitate with this because I feel the right click menu is already too long, but couldn't some of those items be "grouped" into a flyout, or eliminated?
Is it necessary to have those "Begin Chorus" "End Chorus" "End Song" functions there, since they're duplicates of what's on the regular Menu Bar?

Perhaps that needs a different thread.
LLOYD S

A bit of effort went into presenting that. Thanks.
I believe there's potential.
+1