This has probably been asked many times but here goes.

Could we have a couple more blank tracks in the mixer for us to add solos or styles or whatever. At present I have just one track available which just isn't enough. I know there are convoluted ways to get around adding that extra solo or two but this isn't so user friendly.

I know BiaB isn't a DAW and I'm not looking for umpteen tracks, just a couple more.

An extra couple of tracks in the mixer would make all the difference.

Thanks.

<<< This has probably been asked many times... >>>

Yes, many many times. Sometimes a couple of times over a month's time period.

<<< Could we have a couple more blank tracks in the mixer for us to add solos or styles or whatever? >>>

It appears you're requesting more Audio Channels by referencing you only have "one track" available. Many styles have three or four blank tracks the user has access to. Are you requesting more Audio Channels or more Channels for additional RealTracks, Midi Super Tracks or Midi Tracks? Moving your project to RealBand or another DAW is what's normally recommended if additional live audio recordings, additional RealTracks or when any type of midi instruments are needed. What are one or two more channels providing that you don't have now?

<<< I know there are convoluted ways to get around adding that extra solo or two but this isn't so user friendly. >>>

That depends on what you're trying to do and how you go about attempting to do it and if you're using BIAB instruments or recording live audio input. There are multiple ways to add that extra solo or two, some are more involved than others but all use techniques that have been around decades and features that have been available in BIAB for years. None that should take anyone, novices included, from just a few minutes to maybe an hour's time to gain the experience to use these techniques proficiently.

I'm interested to see if I can assist you in accomplishing your task if you can provide a bit more detail.

+1
16 tracks is a very nice number

P.S. Charlie, I believe ClassicMan requesting same thing as I had been requesting. Simple straight forward approach of more tracks available in the mixer for RTs. I strongly believe there is no need to over complex this with workarounds in the wishlist section.
Besides, OP was pretty detailed and clear about the "wish".

Aside from some requests of RTs and minor stability issues, more tracks is my #1 request for PG /BIAB.

Here's a workaround ....lol just joking
+ 1
I was going to give a +1 earlier but I knew you would want more than 2 so I waited until you posted.
Hopefully we should get the Bar to Bar regen in the next release, fingers crossed.

Bar-to-bar regen surely has to be everyone's #1 BIAB wish! (I know it's available on RB but a lot of people don't get on with RB)

But that aside, yes, +1 for this idea although I'd be happy enough with just 8 tracks to play with.

Not a big ask by today's standards. Perhaps the architecture can't handle it without a major upgrade? If so, then let's hope our development team do whatever is required to update and keep the program abreast of the technological requirements.

+1

<<< Besides, OP was pretty detailed and clear about the "wish". >>>

OK. So tell me, was the OP requesting more Audio Channels or more Channels for additional RealTracks, Midi Super Tracks or Midi Tracks? What are the clear details of "blank Track"? The Mixer Channels and the Audio Channel function differently and are not interchangeable without completing certain steps. It's the same question in a DAW. Someone posts; " I need to add a track" To correctly answer the question and help, respondents have to ask Audio or Midi? Stereo or Mono?

<<< ... more blank tracks in the mixer for us to add solos or styles... >>>

Does he mean add a Style or actually mean RealTrack to the Blank Track? Either can be done but the technique is different.

I'm happy to either plus one his request or assist him in completing his task. At the moment I don't know which is best. However, if he learns the power of the one audio channel that's already there, he can use it, apply its techniques today and not wait for next year's BIAB release or maybe the year after that to have additional tracks. They are available to him today... Plus, once he knows the techniques and tools, he'll never run out of tracks nor ever lose the value of having all of BIAB features and tools available all of the time. That's a feature no DAW in the world, not ever RealBand offers...

<<< 16 tracks is a very nice number >>>

Agree that's a valid request but I think it is more suitable and practicable to enhance or rework the Sequencer for this than the Mixer. The Sequencer could be a much more full featured and powerful tool specific to Midi whereas a Mixer Channel by necessity will be a compromise with limitations.

Charlie,

"blank tracks in the mixer for us to add solos or styles or whatever. "

"I know there are convoluted ways to get around adding that extra solo or two but this isn't so user friendly."

I am not sure how more "clear" this can be said.

P.S. When I requested this, you mentioned something like "It would not solve your issues"... How did you determined that? Yes, it would, and it seems not only for me

If he wants to add a single live audio soloist to his project that already has one soloist, there are multiple ways to do it. One way can be done by clicking a single box in the Audio record menu. That's not convoluted nor a work around and how un-user friendly and too technical can checking a box be?

Also, look at RealStyle _Cocoa.Sty. Four of the Mixer Channels are 'blank'. What will two additional Blank channels provide to the four 'blanks' when you simply want to "add that extra solo"? Adding a RealTrack or Midi soloist is altogether different that doesn't require an Audio Channel at all.

Regarding it "It would not solve your issues"... two examples. 1. adding the single solo above with 4 'blank' tracks available 2. "I was going to give a +1 earlier but I knew you would want more than 2 " then 4, 8 16... Adding tracks doesn't really solve issues especially with RealBand and its 48 tracks already in place.

Charlie,
"for us to add solos or styles or whatever."

In my understanding this is a very clear general request, not related to a specific style or specific project.(or a workaround*)
BIAB is not a DAW, so sticking an audio file in it that will not respond to further chord changes will not solve request.
More available "normal" tracks in the mixer for RT's or MIDI will. 16 is a good number that most arrangers had in place for decades.

P.S. if it was me, I would block the word "realband" from the BIAB wishlist forum section... I believe here is where people express their wishes for BIAB not realband.

+1 for me as well

For full disclosure, I use RealTracks 100% of the time, no MIDI in BIAB. Any midi stuff I do, I do in Logic.
There are many, many times (well over 50% of the songs I work up) that I need or want more than 7 RealTracks on. Here's an example

Drums
Bass
Acoustic strum
Acoustic fingerpick
Piano
Organ or synth
Electric guitar
Pedal Steel
Fiddle

There's 9 in a typical configuration that I use.

I'm fully aware (before someone replies with the 'work-around') that there are options for doing this, but having even 10 tracks available would allow me to not have to resort to work-arounds.....which is sort of the point of it being on the wish-list. I have no idea how feasible/possible it is, just would like to have it.

I think it is reasonable to ask ClassicMan to clarify his request. At the very least it might be useful to better understand HOW ClassicMan would use the additional tracks should they become available. As it presently stands the Band-in-a-Box mixer has nine tracks (Bass, Piano, Drums, Guitar, Strings, Melody, Soloist, Thru and Audio) that can be divided into two major groups, accompaniment and specialty.

The Band-in-a-Box mixer presently has five (Bass, Piano, Drums, Guitar & Strings) accompaniment tracks. Each accompaniment track can handle: (a) Style generated midi data feeding either the operating system, DXi or VSTi sound module. style generated midi data + either operating system, DXi or VSTi instrument, (b) midi SuperTracks (midi data with embedded midi instrument), (c) audio loop, (d) Artist Performance audio track, (e) UserTrack audio track or (f) RealTracks/RealDrums audio.

There are four specialty tracks that can roughly be broken into three sub groups.

The Thru track can output midi data in real time to an external midi device.

The Audio track can record or playback an audio file or convert an audio file to an Artist Performance Track audio file.

The Melody and Soloist tracks can be used as two additional accompaniment tracks or as two 16 channel midi sequencers. However, midi data output is limited to the operating system midi sound module.

<<< BIAB is not a DAW, so sticking an audio file in it that will not respond to further chord changes will not solve request. >>>

1. I think that's incorrect. Actually by all the definitions I find online, BIAB is a DAW. Here's two definitions and there are many others with similar wording.

Wikipedia: A digital audio workstation (DAW) is an electronic device or application software used for recording, editing and producing audio files.

TheDAWStudio: There are four main types of music-based general software program functions that were once found in separate programs, but are now usually bundled together in most major software DAWs. These four types are digital audio processor, MIDI sequencer, virtual instrument, and music notation editor. A digital audio processor is simply a program that can record, edit, and mix digital audio information. A MIDI sequencer records, edits, and mixes MIDI information. A virtual instrument is a program or plug-in that receives MIDI information and assigns it to different sounds. And a music notation program enables the user to put notes on a page and print a musical score. A software DAW incorporates all, or some combination, of these four types of programs in their software. The combination of all of these functions is what makes a software based Digital Audio Workstation such a wonderful and useful tool.

a. For me, I find that BIAB can do all four of the main functions. It can record, edit and produce audio files. It can record and work with midi. It can use virtual instruments and has a music notation editor.

b. An audio file converted to reside on any of the seven Legacy Channels will respond to further chord changes with a single click of a button exactly the same as if you unfreeze a frozen track.

As to workarounds, think of BIAB as if it is a audio interface. For instance:

Example: Let's record Bass, Piano, Acoustic Fingerpick, Acoustic strum, Organ or synth, Electric guitar, Pedal Steel onto the Legacy Channels and Fiddle on the Audio Channel.

A BIAB project recording these seven 'normal' Legacy Channels along with a live audio input on the Audio Channel is the equivalent to simultaneously recording the same instruments using all 8 Pre-amp inputs of a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20.

Sequentially recording the 8 instruments on a Scarlett Solo to individual tracks is equivalent to sequentially recording each instrument with the BIAB Audio Channel and moving the audio to a Legacy Channel. So, as you define it, it seems recording a project with a Scarlett Solo is a workaround and may not even qualify as a real interface.

"A Couple More Empty Tracks In Mixer ~ Please"

Seems pretty clear to me and a reasonable request so, +1

What the OP (and ALL the rest of us) are NOT requesting!

Look, this is clearly something that has been discussed ad nauseam in the past, but for us who are newer to the forum...

I see a lot of posts to the effect of "here's a work around" or "here's how you can do it and not need additional tracks", etc. I suppose what I'd like to know is the "why" in regards to adding additional tracks. If it's some sort of band width/storage issue, totally fine....I've just not seen anyone say "no, that can't happen, and here's why". It's probably been discussed in the past, but I'd rather not sort through years of posts to find it. It's a fairly simply request, I would think, to know the "why" as opposed to being told various work-arounds so that it's not necessary.

Also, it seems that most of the responses seem to have to do with MIDI use. Well, not all of us use MIDI. I never use it at all in BIAB. I'm probably missing out on a lot by not using it, but I am A) a lousy piano player, and B) don't have much of a library of sounds to make MIDI my go-to. So I use, exclusively, the RealTracks. And for me, and others like me, yes - having additional tracks on which to put RealTrack instruments would be a big plus.

It's a great program, I'm a huge fan & advocate for it....and I still think having a few more available tracks would be fair & reasonable - again, barring any technical limitations I'm not aware of.

Roger,
I had actually made this a separate "wish" request in the past particularly for feedback from people who make things happen. Some transparency would not hurt

About the MIDI part... I had repeated my request several times for more mixer tracks to be used for Real Tracks or MIDI. Number 16 sounds lovely to me. Meaning you have 16 channels in the mixer instead of 7 and you use it as you see fit. You can have them all as MIDI or you can have them all as Real Tracks, or mix and match. Plain and simple - User friendly.
NO WORKAROUNDS

I have been requesting this for years!

Aux tracks something like this ? you may have to drag them from the mixer to the DROP to render as they won't fit along the top.
Are the extra AUX tracks all running in RAM or are they generated to wav like the multiriffs ?

That looks like a winning idea, Pipeline.
How good would those extra tracks be. Nice.

In your particular workflow, and others that use a similar workflow, the "why" is easy to explain and implement.

1. You routinely use a similar 9 piece band in your song creations
2. Occasionally you add three tracks of a string instrument
3. You already have a folder and naming system in place. There's nothing for you to drastically change to your normal workflow.
4. Rather than export individual WAV's like you do now, there's a one click selection in BIAB that will export your file to a folder, name it and save a WAV or WMA file of your choosing, Freeze the track and change the color of the track making it much more obvious the track is "frozen" and an exact copy of the frozen track has been saved. This is repeatable over and over.
5. The one click function is much faster than what you do currently. It also adds a great deal of versatility to the complexity and arrangements to the tracks you export to Logic for mixing thus saving you time in mixing as well.
6. You can learn everything there is to know about this one click button in less than 5 minutes.

It's not a work around (it already has a button) and you can do it and not need additional tracks or have to learn convoluted, hidden techniques.

It also automatically gives the option to not only export the discrete tracks but combine several discrete tracks or the Style as a submix or stem with or without effects.

It's been a feature since 2014, works flawlessly without bugs and works the same with every media compatible with BIAB. That's Midi, Midi Super Tracks, RealTracks, RealDrums, Loops and live or Pre-recorded Audio in any format recognized by BIAB. It works with any combination of those media types.

Charlie....all due respect - that's not an answer to my question.

I'm asking the specific question as to why there can't be more tracks. Period.

I'm not asking how to utilize a different workflow. I'm not asking what systems are in place currently that allow me to do what I'm wanting to do.
Telling me "oh you don't need more tracks, here's what you can do..." is not an answer to my question, that's giving me a solution that I already have.

I've been working in recording studios for decades. Most of the ones I work, or have worked in, have a 32 or 48 tracks. I've never used 48, rarely even used 24. And that's certainly not what I'm looking for in BIAB. I simply would like to know IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO ADD MORE TRACKS, and if not, THEN WHY. That's all.

Roger +1
"IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO ADD MORE TRACKS, and if not, THEN WHY."
Unfortunately "Why" will not solve the issue. I would limit the choices to three.
YES, NO, MAYBE. That way, if there is NO hope, time should not be wasted on this very important wish. I believe It would be fair for developers or somebody who can speak for them to give a short answer, so this can be discussed or put to rest.

Pipeline,
interesting. I was imagining "+" button on the mixer, which would add an extra track "on demand" right above Soloist/Melody tracks. Up to 16 total, not including Audio or Through.

With extra tracks, for easy to understand/type in Bar Options, for holds, shots etc., this idea can be used:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=83441&Number=597158#Post597158

----------------------------
ClassicMan, I thank you for starting this thread and I am sorry if it went unexpected direction.

<<< I simply would like to know IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO ADD MORE TRACKS, and if not, THEN WHY. That's all. >>>

I can't speculate on the possibilities but back in April in Rustyspoon's wishlist request for bar to bar generation, Dr. Gannon responded directly after my post to a 'work around' and his response was clear that RealBand furnishes many of these wishlist features of which 'additional tracks' is one of those type features. RealBand was his recommendation and with this request for additional tracks, RealBand gives you 40 of them.

The obstacle you guys may need to overcome is PG Music's WHAT. What is PG Music's incentive to abandon RealBand that Dr. Gannon explains has features that meet and exceed BIAB specs and adds many more tracks?

In that same post, Rustyspoon thanked Dr. Gannon for commenting on the post and said, "It is all about the workflow. I believe at least half of us (users) do not use RB for various reasons. There are a handful of avid supporters of RB, but seems most use BIAB."

I theorize you'll have convince PG Music to abandon RealBand and explain how 2 new tracks in BIAB is both better than the unlimited number you can generate today simply by learning to do the process in BIAB or doing it in the recommended program, RealBand. Then convince PG Music why you'll study and learn the in's and out's of software like Reaper, Sonar, Logic, Studio One but not BIAB or RealBand.

Dr. Gannon said they "always strive to be responsive to user requests." and "That’s not to say that we won’t add bar to bar regeneration for all tracks to BIAB. It’s a good idea and on the todo list." There's certainly hope so don't give up because I'm only speculating it's an uphill battle. It may already be on their 'to do' list. Rustyspoon's wishlist requests do receive a lot of positive responses and support and if two more tracks is what you want. It's want you want. I have no issue at all and never don't support these requests. Sharing alternative methods doesn't mean it's not a good request and I try to withhold my input to just the instances where the request assumes something can't be done in BIAB when it can. You are responding to my offer to assist a user that appears to not know his task can be done in BIAB not me rejecting the wish.

>IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO ADD MORE TRACKS, and if not, THEN WHY."
Unfortunately "Why" will not solve the issue. I would limit the choices to three.
YES, NO, MAYBE. That way, if there is NO hope, time should not be wasted on this very important wish. I believe It would be fair for developers or somebody who can speak for them to give a short answer, so this can be discussed or put to rest.


Answer is YES. And thanks for all the inout and suggestions above.

<<< Answer is YES. And thanks for all the inout and suggestions above. >>>

And I get to give the first PLUS 1 !!!!

Dr. Gannon,
Thank you for the reply and giving hope to this!!

Mario,
I know it is early for celebration, but news seems to be encouraging
(don't forget to wear a mask if you are running to store to get some champagne)

---

There many great music software titles out there. BIAB is a little more than a "software" to me. It is a bottomless source of inspiration with all the talent of amazing musicians ready to stand by your side. Getting back to original poster request, I believe that having more tracks in BIAB in some ways are more important than whole VST, at least to me So again, thank you for bringing up this topic!

Yes, that is the first positive news I have heard on this subject.

PS I will wear a mask when I go out to buy more beer

Hello Peter,

Thank you so much for replying here.

It is good news to read your positive answer.

Best wishes.

And this, friends & neighbors, is why PG Music is a great company and BIAB is a great product. Two thumbs up.

I'm looking forward to using the additional mixer tracks.

This has been an enjoyable conversation to read and to be a participant in.

+1

One way would be to export the first tracks to a wav file, then load it as audio track to free the first ones then replace them by new ones and etc... but it'd be such a waste of time, so adding more empty tracks would be so appreciated...

(I think too that 16 would be so fine)

I would like to see a few more tracks in the Mixer. With the advent of LOOPS as part of the package a few more tracks would definitely make a difference to my production efforts. My style is more Soul/RnB/Club based so once I add the rhythm loops (drum/percussion, drum loops) strings (a steady in almost all RnB/Soul) I've already consumed 4 tracks out the gate. Yes I do have a workaround that I enjoy but I believe I can get even more out of this great product with a few more tracks available.

Thanks

I'd like to see this also, so, thanks, Dr. Gannon!