Just a short suggestion in regard to the menues ...

What I would have found (and btw still would find) much more intuitive as a new user and in general more tidy/consistent (as well as probably even more flexible from the software developer's perspective) than exclusively what feels to me like a "here and there" priciple of the (respectively like a quite organically grown) current UI is at least one additional menu that is structured like the "Song Tools Menu" below - or even also a second menu in addition specifically made for new users, like the "Beginner's Menu" below:

Plus 1...

Great idea. I was discussing the Melody Maker with a long time user not long ago and they couldn't find the Melody Maker.

+1

+1
Definitely good and useful ideas!

I had a couple of similar requests in the past. (Beginner / Advanced views)
Now, reading your post, I think the best way and future proof way to tackle this would be a fully customizable quick access menu button that would load essential menus/functions. Meaning, PG can have several templates (Beginner-Intermediate-Advanced) or custom where users can select group things to suit their workflow. That way nothing is set in stone and can be changed as program develops with ease.

MoveToGroove
I am not sure if you are aware, there is a "custom" tabbed quick access item, which you can make use of.
See attached.
I wish there would be a way to add more specific/direct functions... Maybe that is the way to go...
perhaps renaming "custom" to something else, add more functions / shortcuts and have it as default tab?

+1

This menu list is the style of today's software design.
In fact, the list of realtrack, realdrum and style picker should also be included.
However, band in a box also has its own characteristics. Some people call it "retro"
When this retro feeling is in sharp contrast to powerful functions. So many people sigh: "BIAB is an undervalued software"
For me, it doesn't matter whether to change the version or not. It took me a few months to get familiar with it.
I hope others are as patient as I am

Hey Rusty,

how about: After the Install-Process such a "Beginner's Menu" does exist - but when the user opens BiaB for the first time he gets a Popup-Window which informs him that and how he can get rid of that menu if he wishes so. And if he does so and in case that there are any "slim versions" of the regular tools in the Beginner's Menu, those then get integrated into the regular "Song Tools" Menu (since they might still be useful, e.g. for a "quick-song-creation-process").

In regard to the Custom-item: I didn't know about that - thanks for letting me know!

Hey swingbaby,

I have meant the above suggestion just as a rough sketch, for sure. So there can be integrated more things, either in the first instance or in the second instances (or in even deeper instances), including such a "Further Song Tools" category.

I see. In fact, a few days ago, I also wanted to draw such a picture. As a result, I drew for several days, but I didn't draw well. Now you draw it. I'm very happy

"how about: After the Install-Process such a "Beginner's Menu" does exist"..."
Ha ha. I proposed nearly identical idea not too long ago.

I think it is a big task and a problem for PG music to re-structure most menus. However, A Minimalistic GUI view (I forgot what is the official name for this) is fairly straight forward as far as main page goes.

So looking at two things, your drawing /requests of this post and what is already on the plate - custom quick access menu from my screenshots that is available..I am thinking if a "custom" tab is set by default with a certain set of tools for beginner in mind, you would not have to go in deep menus for most tasks. As you would have 10 or so main functions of the program in one, visible and accessible from any point place. Of course, with ability to change / customize things at a later time as you see fit. More shortcuts with icons needed to be made...

The only thing in this case, is purely esthetics is the position of access of quick panel, which is at the right corner of the screen now, while most people would expect main controls to be on the left. But that is minor and perhaps is fixable by making a distinct single "start here" button somewhere on the left side which would host beginner, intermediate or advanced set of tools and functions.

Rusty,


that's also a good idea!


I also have that impression.

Essential would be in my opinion that there would be added an (at least temporarily parallel) structure which at first relieves the other menues from these song-element-makers. Let's say: For BiaB 2022 :-)

Then (let's say: for BiaB 2023) the song-element-makers could be restructured easier, and the remaining parts of the old menues as well.

The song-element-makers should definately be treated more strictly in a modular manner (why is the chord builder a part of the melody maker atm???), and as a whole they should be treated first of all as a bottom-up-songbuilding process. That would not only match the way a user/musician "mainly" thinks when he creates a song in BiaB, but it also would give quite a huge new freedom for further developments of the software.

Top-down-options (breakdown/analyze/simplify a song and the like) are also important and therefore should be featured, too - but in another menu (resp. in other menues). It's just that I myself would like to concentrate on a bottom-up-approach currently, since I find that more urgent at the moment.

swingbaby,

I have two more pictures to come (some time during this week, since they still need some finetuning).
I'll most probably put them in extra-threads then, since although they are not totally independant from this topic here, they will mainly be meant as topics on their own.

You can have your own custom floating always on top menu.
Download https://www.autohotkey.com/
If you have Biab running As Administrator go to the install folder
C:\Program Files\AutoHotkey and set AutoHotkey.exe to Run As Administrator.
Remove the .mp4 from Biab Menu Clone.ahk.mp4
run Biab Menu Clone.ahk

This is just a demo of the menu, the File, Open functions is set but not all the others

So you can create any custom menu you like.
I think you can modify the menu style.

Hey Pipeline,

interesting! But this wouldn't help new users, for sure.

MoveToGroove,
I still encourage you to see custom bar. You can add 12 direct access items there. Without even the need to go to sub menus. And yes, some shortcut options (that you described above) are missing! But perhaps we would see a much faster progress, if we request particular shortcuts/icons that PG can make with mind to assist beginners.

Think about this in these terms: If you have 12 main - beginner oriented menu options / functions visible upfront... Once you master them, you already more or less intermediate user

Hey Rusty,

I have recognized that and I already answered - see above: "That's also a good idea!"

The more good ideas, the better it is, and the programmers will have to choose then (including from their own ideas, which will probably win the race anyway haha).

I didn't have the intention to persuade in regard to my suggestion, just wanted to add a couple of background thoughts.

I'll give a +1 for the idea, but while we are on the subject of menus, it needs a track menu to give access to the tracks right click menus that you can't get to by keyboard.
There should also be a Custom menu that the user can have any functions just like the icon one but a choice of ALL functions.

MoveToGroove,

I fully support your ideas., especially "modular" approach. But that can only happen with what pipeline said above:
"There should also be a Custom menu that the user can have any functions just like the icon one but a choice of ALL functions."

Or at least more functions available...

I guess my main concern is "placement" of these beginner menus you proposing. As I can see there is only single particular space left, which is that shortcut icon bar. There is room for 2-3 more tabs. Otherwise, I think any addition to other space will intrude on real estate of GUI, unless new items are fully collapsible as in BIAB plugin.

the interface should be modified to be more concise and modern.

If Biab would allow you to run an external app/script from the Custom User Menu you could then run the ahk scripts with a command line C:\bb\Scripts\Autohotkey.exe myscript.ahk
the scripts gui can be set to always on top.

Hmmm.. That is a bold statement.
Can you please share thoughts on the minimalistic GUI, what you think can be changed for the better? Except for menu items you have listed.

I am just talking about front page of minimalistic screen, not menu structures or older GUI that looks like arcade...

I am curious, because I was thinking about this for some time... to suggest something useful to PG team. I think customized quick access items, as explained above could potentially solve many "first" time users frustrations. Of course not all, but a good start.

I could not find anything negative that I would change in the front page graphically or ergonomically, with single exception of having option to hide thin bar at the very top with "dots". It just bothers me visually and something that I have no use for.

I do think there has to be a streamlined picker, a single picker for all content, and quite a bit work done on menus. Condense, sort, group etc.
But front of minimalistic GUI overall looks good to me.

Rusty & Pipeline,

I support each of your approaches, too. I'm not sticked to one specfic solution here - the more effective, at least in the long run, the better.

In a posting above I had mentioned two more suggestions with a picture to come, which I wanted to treat mainly as a topic on their own, but which would also be a little bit related to the topic of this thread. Meanwhile, I've posted them - so if you're interested in those, too, you can check them out here:

• A suggestion in regard to a Simple Songform Creator: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=676465
• A suggestion in regard to an E-Z Chords Generator: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=676720

Btw: after writing down those two suggestions, I think that in my pictures right at the beginning of this menu-thread the styles might probably fit better above the chords generator or even above the songform creator.