I've got a KeyStation 88 plugged into my Windows 10 (:() computer.

And...uh...now what?

It's not a synthesizer, so it seems like I should be able to use it for input, but I can't figure out how.

What I'd like to do is press keys and make sounds with it via BiaB, if possible (and record/notate as needed).

The Midi/Audio drivers setup shows the Keystation 88 for input. Whatever I click for output I get "Note: You have DXi enabled so the MIDI output driver won't be used..." Which I think is fine (but really have no idea).

If I run the wizard for the output driver and select "Use my external MIDI Module or Synth hooked up to this MIDI interface" and select the Keystation, BiaB crashes. (I figure there's no MIDI input so I'm not too concerned with this. I'm just noting it in case it matters.)

But now what? I would expect to be able to find something that says "Use MIDI input for this track" or something along those lines, but most of the MIDI stuff seems to be centered around pre-recorded things (or, I guess, more likely waveforms to emulate certain instrument sounds).

I am baffled.

this thread may be helpful
midi thru problem

This topic interested me too. You can advise what MIDI keyboard for working with BB appropriate and tested?

Karel

You should take the time to read up on MIDI and begin to understand what it is and how it works. Google search is helpful. It's also an excellent idea to take the time to go through PG Music's video tutorials one by one and work through them. They cover all the basics to get you started quickly.

On the SUPPORT tab.... left column.... Tutorials: http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_bbw_nosound.htm

Essentially, any keyboard with MIDI will work for any midi input capable device. Midi has channels and patches and must be assigned properly in order to work.

Your midi device outputs the midi data. Midi is not music.... it has to be converted into music along the path the data travels. It sends this data on a midi channel, and once the software is listening on that channel, the midi data can be used.
In the computer, your keyboard should show up as an available midi input device.... meaning the computer sees it and can access it's data. In the software, either BB or a DAW, you would select the midi device as input to a track and then set up the parameters of channel, patch, etc.... This is done after a synth of some sort has been linked to that same track. It is the synth that will see and be able to use the data on the channel to then use the patch you assigned to make sounds of one sort or another.

Does that sound totally confusing? Yeah it was to me as well when I first started. It took a few days to get sound. Once you grasp the whole concept of midi and their relationship to synths, it's actually fairly simple.

Many DAW's have an "INSERT SYNTH" function that makes all of the synth setup a one click event. Doing it manually is also a snap in a good DAW.

Midi is fun and works well. Take the time to educate yourself. When you get stumped by something in the video's.... come back and ask in the appropriate forum.

Good luck...and have fun.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

pghboemike -- I'll give the ASIO thing a try, though it doesn't seem quite like my problem.

Maybe I should start by stating more clearly: I'm not sure what's SUPPOSED to happen, so I'm not sure if the problem is in my setup, or just in my head.

GuitarHacker -- I =think= I understand MIDI pretty well. I got my first MIDI keyboard back in '86, and I've written some programs to parse MIDI data. (In fact I was tempted to fire up a demo program for reading MIDI input/playing it just to see if there was a real issue other than user ignorance.)

That said, this is right where my issue is:

>>you would select the midi device as input to a track

How?

I've gone through videos and realized a difference between the current version of BiaB and the previous ones is: no piano at the top. I would have expected (in an edition of the software that still had that) the piano keys to light up when I pressed keys on the keystation (sound notwithstanding), and indeed the videos/tutorials I've seen show that.

I found one on hooking up RealBand and when I went to select the MIDI device I got the "There is not enough memory available for this task", which is the error I get when I try to use MIDI-OX.

That sucks because It's not that there's not enough, I'm positive. It's that there's too much (32GB).

So again, I'm stymied.

In a DAW, which is where I work mostly, there;s a track inspector or a track control view. It shows you the options for input and output for each track. Any input or output device... ex: an interface or sound card.... would show up there. If there are several, they all show up and you can select the one you want to use.

In BB and RB, I'm not sure how to tell you to find that track inspector since I rarely use these programs in that manner.

However, I have used BB to record a scratch vocal just to do it.... and it was pretty painless IIRC.

I think you may be having driver issues.


For output try selecting the Windows GSWavetable synth (whatever you windows default is).
For some people this has fixed weird issues when DXi rerouting was in place for certain systems.

Also, your Audio driver should not say Keystation.
It has no sound, right?

Lastly if you are using an ASIO driver, make sure no other device is grabbing the driver first .. and then PGMusic products can't access it.
Related to this; try enabling/disabling ASIO always On. If it doesn;t make a difference, put it back.

Oh, and in BiaB I *think* the MIDI In gets played thru the Thru channel. So something has to be on the other end ready to go (same MIDI channel etc).

Yeah, it'd be great if I could find something on the track window (which I have at least managed to open up) that let me select input, but I don't see it. Everything MIDI related seems to be for loading/saving/sounds...none for live input.

Thanks, though.

>>For output try selecting the Windows GSWavetable synth (whatever you windows default is).
For some people this has fixed weird issues when DXi rerouting was in place for certain systems.

I've mostly had it as GSWavetable. Whatever I set it as, I get a warning about having DXi set, therefore MIDI output won't be used, except for MIDI thru. Which gives me an idea to search the help index for MIDI Thru. No joy there as the Help system crashes BiaB. But it gave me the thought of searching for MIDI Thru in the PDF and...it seems like I shouldn't need to do much more than add a "MIDI Thru" track.

So I add that and...nothin'. But I notice that its gray and the only tracks that sound are yellow. There's some kind of activation step I'm missing.

Oh, I'm not sure what you mean by "audio driver" in this context. I have an MIDI input driver, which I've tried the two options—Keystation 88 and MIDIN2 (Keystation 88)—but not the <No MIDI/Sound Input> option 'cause...I can't figure out how that could possibly work.

I have a MIDI Output Driver, which lists the KeyStation 88, but since it's not a synthesizer, that would seem to make no sense. I may have tried it, but mostly I've stuck with Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth.

For Synthesizer / Sound Card, I've been using General MIDI Instrument Misc. I have a Sound Blaster Z but that's not one of the options and I figure the default should work.

Just for curiosity sake.... I just turned on my DAW computer.... made sure the speakers were on..... opened BiaB .... and played something on my keyboard.

What I was playing came out of the speakers.

Once you get the soundcard and driver issue set up properly, the midi keyboard should work.

Yeah, I figured it had to be so simple there wasn't any need to document it when it was working normally.

My comment on Audio drivers was caused by your statement "The Midi/Audio drivers setup shows the Keystation 88 for input."


Have you got Realtracks (meaning audio) to play back and work OK?

Another question; when you try to play, what channel do you have selected in BiaB?
Question 2 - What channel is the keyboard sending MIDI on?
Does the Synth channel match the track's selected MIDI channel?

FWIW I'm pretty sure I could get you working in RB .. I don't try much in BiaB other than trying out styles/chords .. then it's off to RB pretty quickly here.
More intuitive for me.

Can you simply connect the audio from the keyboard to the audio in on the computer?
That would be easiest.
Also, others know more, but I *think* MIDI thru is channel 4 or 5 on BiaB.

Also, very related thread:
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=384248&page=3

rharv-- The persistence is appreciated.

>>Have you got Realtracks (meaning audio) to play back and work OK?

I can get audio out of the software, yes. I can enter chords and play them back in a selected style.

>> Another question; when you try to play, what channel do you have selected in BiaB?

Channel? I've tried different tracks (especially melody and thru) but I don't see how to set the MIDI channel.

>> Question 2 - What channel is the keyboard sending MIDI on?

I just set it to 1, but I can set it up to 16.

>>Does the Synth channel match the track's selected MIDI channel?

I don't know. I've rummaged through the Coyote thing to see if I could figure it out, but BiaB tends to crash any time I go in there.

>>FWIW I'm pretty sure I could get you working in RB .. I don't try much in BiaB other than trying out styles/chords .. then it's off to RB pretty quickly here.
More intuitive for me.<<

I think I've had that experience with past editions as well.

>>Can you simply connect the audio from the keyboard to the audio in on the computer?
That would be easiest. <<

There's no audio on the keyboard. It's strictly, as I understand it, for MIDI out. I got a USB port, which I'm using, and I got a classic MIDI out port. I guess I could get a sound module but I think that would just add another element to debug at this point.

>>Also, others know more, but I *think* MIDI thru is channel 4 or 5 on BiaB.

I switched the keyboard to four, then five, but didn't detect any difference.

>> Also, very related thread:

I can see how this might just be a bug. (Contemplating the codebase for this gives me a chill.) It mostly seems to relate to ASIO stuff, though, which I'm not using. I could, with the right chord, plug it into my sound card's ASIO port, I think, but really, I was just thinking of this keyboard as like a QWERTY with fewer keys. =P

I think there's a fundamental issue, with this software crashing all the time, and preventing me from doing things because of "lack of memory". I'm going to try a different machine, I think.

Did you check out pghboemike's posted link?

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=384270#Post384270

I had not, because when it gets to the part where you're setting the ASIO input, I know I'm not using any of the available inputs. OR SO I THOUGHT!

I went through it anyway and WTFOMG I can actually use the keyboard to play while BiaB is playing! I do not understand this at all but whatevs. For now it's working!



Thank you for pounding it into my thick skull!

Glad it's working and thanks for letting us know the fix.
Now hang around and help someone else.

Love to. I've got a long way to go of course. =P

Aaaaaaaand it's gone. lol

Now I'm set up just as in that post, but no longer hearing sound.

Yesterday, when it was working I shut it down to do some (paying) work and when I started it back up today, all the audio stuff was still set up, but pressing the keyboard does nothing.

Windows mixer in play here(?)
Did you use MediaPlayer or such and maybe windows changed a default?

aaaarrgh, that has to be frustrating after just having it working.

I'd double-double check all drivers and such again and remember what changed.

No other media than BiaB, that I can recall. And yeah, frustrating: my kid is on me. She's been bugging me for weeks to get this going.

Windows mixer, though, is something I don't understand in this context, so maybe that's it. On my recording page of Windows mixer, I have three items: Microphone, Digital-In and What-U-Hear, all going through the Sound Blaster. Which, if I understand correctly, I am using NONE of. (Although I could use the mic.)

For playback, I've got 1 - VX2757, AMD High Definition Audio Device, listed as "Ready" and then "2 - Digital Display Audio (not plugged in)" "3 - (same)" through "6 - (same)". Speakers as the default device and SPDIF-OUT as ready—but I'm pretty sure not in use.

Pfeh.

It seems odd to me that you would have Soundblaster 'Recording' ports available in Windows and not in 'Playback'.

You said earlier that you didn't think the input port was needed and that fixed things. Have you tried that again?

>>It seems odd to me that you would have Soundblaster 'Recording' ports available in Windows and not in 'Playback'.

Sorry, that last one (SPDIF-OUT) is the Soundblaster.

>>You said earlier that you didn't think the input port was needed and that fixed things. Have you tried that again?

It hadn't changed. So I reset the factory settings and went through the steps again. Aaannnd...no joy.

:-(

Oh, I notice that later down the thread, Ron says something about "Build 456". I apparently have, I think, 454. (It reads "Version 2017 (454)".) I assume 456 is a minor bump because the auto-update doesn't detect it, but I don't see how to get it (if I do, in fact, need it).

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=385972#Post385972

Welp. No joy there. Going over that list on how to get play-through I see:

>>6. Thru channel midi patch of your choice.

Which I think I'm setting by double-clicking on "thru" and selecting (whatever) as a patch. I don't actually get how it picks which of the tracks is the "thru".

Note: Your sound card should function INDEPENDENTLY of any software that needs to use it.

When I turn my DAW computer on and just let it boot up on it's own before I ever load any recording or music software... at some point in that boot up process, the sound card starts to pass AUDIO automatically. It doesn't automatically pass midi because midi needs a synth for output.

Looking into the in/out settings in your software, you should be able to see ALL of the available inputs and outputs that the computer sees as available.

If the computer sees it, it's available. Then it's just a matter of assigning a synth to read that data and provide the audio output back to the sound card.

OK, I should have done this before but—I rebooted and now I have sound coming out of the card. I can't seem to change the volume or character of the sound, and it only makes noise when I'm recording (despite following that post from the guy saying it should make sound all the time). But it's a start.

Also, noting here that the latest build made this a lot less twitchy...