I'm considering purchasing BIAB to use on stage for live performance. Are there any other musicians out there that are doing just that? I've been doing a solo and duo for many years using midi and running my show from a laptop on stage. The laptop is ancient running Windows 95 and so is the Cakewalk 3.01 program that I use. It worked flawlessly for many years until the computer finally died recently. I can't find an old computer to take it's place because they've all been recycled and Cakewalk 3.01 won't work on newer computers. So it's time to upgrade since Cakewalk is now defunct!

I would like to get away from having to carry all my equipment to every gig because my setup is larger than most full bands. My questions are, does BIAB have good enough sounds to take the place of all my midi modules? Can I run straight out of the laptop to the PA and leave all my midi equipment at home? Are there catalogs of BIAB songs out on the web to access for songs that I don't have programmed already and does BIAB read midi files well? Thanks in advance for any help.

Monkster, firstly welcome to the forums.

There are many users who do exactly what you want, using BiaB live on stage.

The RealTracks in BiaB are recordings of real instruments, performed by real musicians, and can give you excellent quality performances.

Some users also create their backing tracks and export as an Audio file (WAV, MP3 etc) and play those live instead of BiaB.

You can definitely send the laptop output to your PA, no question that this will work. You can also use a software synth inside BiaB for handling MIDI tracks. Forte DXi (available from PG Music) is a great way to go with very reasonable sounds and for only about $40.

Consider getting a small USB Audio adapter instead of relying on the 3.5mm stereo socket on the laptop - this is for reliability purposes.

BiaB can read MIDI files, and there are also many existing songs on the web. With native MIDI (not BiaB files), you may need to separate the data onto multiple tracks - RealBand, which comes with BiaB for Windows, can do this easily.

Hope this answers your question in some way.

BIAB works well with MIDI; however, the sound you get is only as good as the sound module you use.

Also, unless you are looking to do exact covers (which require MIDI), BIAB also uses RealTracks, which are recorded audio phrases that adapt to your chord progression and sound like real live players because they are and were recorded by top studio session musicians.

Also, be aware the PGMusic offers a 30-day money back guarantee.

There are folks that use BIAB live; however, I would suspect most create either WAV or MP3 renderings of their accompaniment for both simplicity sake and consistency.

BIAB also comes with RealBand, a DAW that incorporates a lot of the BIAB song generation features.

Go listen to the User Showcase and you'll be able to hear some of the great original songs that people have used BIAB and RealBand to create. Browse the forum, and look at the video tutorials and you'll find yourself up to speed very quickly. And we users on the forum are happy to answer your questions.

Good luck.

VideoTrack, Thank you for your reply. I feel more comfortable purchasing the program now and thanks for the tips. I had to cancel some gigs recently from my old laptop crash and really looking forward to getting back to work. BiaB sounds like an amazing program and can't wait to start working with it.

jford, you answered one of my questions about sound in your first sentence. Since my laptop has both Realtek and NVIDIA High Definition Audio, I take it that those are the only sounds I will be hearing. Does BiaB come with any VST instruments, or if not, will BiaB be able to link up to them from other vendors?

Your RealTek and NVIDIA will be just for audio. For the playback of MIDI into the audio stream, you'll need a softsynth. BIAB comes with a DXi synth called CoyoteWT (WT is short for Wave Table), which is actually just a wrapper for the low res GM MIDI Wavetable that ships with Windows computers (it takes the Microsoft sounds and and presents it to you as a DXi (DirectX synth).

Also for General MIDI (GM), PGMusic also sells the Coyote Forte synth (also a DXi synth) for $40, which definitely sounds better than the CoyoteWT, but still leaves a lot to be desired.

You also get the free Sforzando VSTi synth, along with several SFZ sounds provided by PGMusic, but it's not General MIDI and you'll have to assign instruments on a track by track basis for each song. However, there are tons of free and not so free sounds out there that Sforzando can play.

If you go the VSTi route, you will probably also want to purchase jBridge from PGMusic (I think it's $10), as that will let you run 64-bit VSTi's and VST effects in the 32-bit BIAB environment.

For VSTi's, you might want to explore VSTi offerings from IK-Multimedia (SampleTank) or Native Instruments (Kontakt). Those aren't cheap, but the sounds are much better, and again they are note General MIDI, so you would have to assign the sounds on a track by track basis for each song.

And of course, the RealTracks/RealDrums are just audio files, so they will play fine on your computer sound card.

Let us know what you are thinking and we can definitely go into more detail.

I recently bought BIAB specifically to create backing tracks to use live.

I save the songs as mp3 and load them on my ipad through iTunes. It helps having a mac pc but it is possible to use Windows to do this.

I use Onsong on my ipad to trigger the backing tracks which sync with the chord charts on Onsong.

I use a Line 6 Sonic Port from my ipad to a digital mixer, then to the PA.

This works really well and as I become more proficient in using BIAB I think I will get more refined backing tracks. The sounds in the basic BIAB that I have are good enough to begin with.

jford, Thanks for all the ideas. I need to order BiaB and get my feet wet!

As a tip, go for the best package that you can afford. Certainly try to go better than the Pro pack which is essentially an entry level product. The larger packages contain significantly more features and options, and you'll get greater benefit especially if you intend to use to create backing tracks for performing with.

You need to think very carefully about using BIAB for live work. I do and I love it, but I don't have exact backings. I accept (and now like) the fact that my covers sound unique. If you are managing to get what you want with what you have, just upgrade to a midi player or a new computer and carry on. Alternatively you could probably get away with Karaoke files or minus 1 files. BIAB is a great product, but it's primarily a songwriting tool. You'll love it regardless, even if not just for writing backing tracks, but remember it's a steep learning curve as well.

Hey Monkster, or maybe other folks who might be interested... there was a giveaway of Cakewalk Sonar home. I know that Sonar went belly up, but Sonar home was just updated a couple of month before the announcement. As it is, it should last for many years.
Anyway, promotion is real, no need to buy anythng. Couple of friends got it there recently. Here is the link:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3718858&p=1

I could not disagree more. BIAB/RealTracks/Drums excel on covers.


Regards,

Bob

I agree with Bob. BiaB can provide you with unique and really excellent covers.

Along with listening to songs in the User Showcase, to get an idea how a cover tune sounds that was created in solely in BIAB, I previously posted two covers on YouTube and provided links to the songs over in the 'I heard it on YouTube' forum.

Here's Listen to the Music


and "Cherish" by the Association

It was requested I leave out the lead soloist instrument in Cherish and the artist plays that instrument live during the performance.

Here is an example of what BIAB can do;



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kctbm65HXu8&feature=youtu.be



Regards,

Bob

How is it working out for you, I travel so much I can't work up a band. I use windows and am figuring out a way to play my backing tracks without fiddling with a laptop. Good luck out there

I think using BIAB to generate backing tracks is fairly simple and using RealTracks one can quickly achieve the sound of a "real" backing band. I prefer using wav files or more recently MP3s. It gives me the chance to mix the way I want and get the levels even. Using an usb sound card it is easy to plug my guitar in and have predetermined levels. I prefer the use of BIAB generated tracks to downloaded karaoke type tracks as I can get them to sound more like a live band behind me. I do my own guitar work, breaks etc. The BIAB band behind me has a couple of guitars, bass and drums sometimes with piano, or pedal steel, banjo, mandolin or fiddle not too much at any one time.

That's the way I like it (no egos to contend with and no arguments either).

Tony

Wonderful cover. I'm impressed!

Thank you.


Regards,


Bob

FWIW I create singing backing tracks in BB, don about a dozen so far,and once I am happy I freeze the tracks and balance it all in the mixer and then export it as a wav.These all get put in my andrex (joke) tablet and I create a playlist in the Player in there and bobsharunkle.
Works for me anyway,but then again Im still a beginner.
Wendy

I've been using BiaB through DOS, win XP and now Win 10 and have done 5 years of singing to and with my assisted living friends. I appreciate having immediate custom key and tempo changes available when running it live. Getting older means more computer mistakes so I still feel a beginner. I just ran into a lockup as described below.

My midi output driver, microsoft GS wavetable synth,is fully installed but not available. It is classified as "being used by another program" I tried a reboot a forced closing, by task manager, of the unresponsive BIAB file then another reboot to no avail.
I have no alternative synth and wonder how I can restore operation.I am due to be entertaining friends tomorrow!

I just depends on what songs you're doing and how picky you are. Some songs do not have identifying musical hooks in them, like folk styles for example. Lots of strumming guitars with a bass. Dreams by Fleetwood Mac is an example of that. No problem. But take Charlies cover of Listen To The Music by the Doobies. That intro guitar rhythm lick is not from Biab. Either Charlie himself or someone else played that.

If you're the guitarist and will be playing that intro yourself no problem but a midi file will have that intro already programmed in. However, don't expect Biab to produce those song specific hooks. Satisfaction is another common one. Satisfaction without that iconic guitar part really isn't Satisfaction is it? How about the organ part in Gimme Some Lovin by Spencer Davis? Unless you're the keyboardist, you'll need a midi file for that one.

Without those hooks you don't have a song but if you're doing three chord country strumming tunes and you can finger pick along yourself, easy peasy.

I would not simply endorse using Biab for covers, too many unknowns. True backing tracks are not called cover tracks, they're backing tracks for a performer who's playing those parts themselves. In that context Biab is great.

Bob

Hi Roy, you just jumped into the middle of a thread (conversation) on the usefullness of using Biab live. That's a different topic than your problem and you should have started a new thread.

Without more details it's hard to come up with an exact answer but try this inside Biab: Options>Return To Factory Settings and let it reset itself. You'll have to go into your midi drivers window and reselect the Coyote Wavetable. This is assuming you're using a recent version of Biab.

Always post which version you have. Otherwise, we're shooting in the dark.

Bob

I know this is an old thread but thought I'd jump in because I'm dealing with the same thing right now. My duo partner (singer) has retired for health reasons and I want to keep playing as long as I can but don't sing a note, which leaves me doing instrumental sets at the local assisted living facilities. I'm using BIAB 2021 for backing tracks and do everything from 'surf' to country to Great American Songbook tunes. Ideally, converting to Mp3 would be a great idea and I've been doing that using Windows Media Player for playback on most tunes...but...my problem arises when I want to do extended solos over a set of chord changes - say something simple like a 12 bar blues. I set up the BIAB track to do something like 8 choruses, then output it as an Mp3 and use it as a backing track on the gig. Now, I'm locked in to 8 choruses and (in my advanced age) I forget which one I'm on and where/when the track will end. I'll just be wailing away on a great tune and ...boom, it stops. That's where using the actual program comes in handy because you can see how many choruses you have left, plus, you can see the lead sheet or chord chart if it's a tune you aren't that familiar with. Makes it easier to cover tunes you might have a request for and you have it in your BIAB Songs file - just bring it up - set it to an easy key and sight read it on the spot; I usually won't do this with something I've never heard but if I've heard the tune, I can usually pull it off well enough that the customer is happy.
I'm open for suggestions to improve my methods, of course. I'm running the stereo headphone out of my HP laptop into 2 channels of my Yamaha MG10XU mixer, then into one (sometimes 2) Mackie Thump 12 powered cabinet. I'll either run my guitar through one channel of the PA with outboard effects up front or run the guitar through my Evans RE200 amp with effects in the loop. I can run a line out from the amp if needed.

I play guitar over my own biab tracks. Pretty similar to your use case.

I use Anytune pro for my mp3 playback at gigs.
My “normal” arrangement is
Intro
Head (melody)
Improv chorus(1 or 2)
Head (restate the melody)
Outtro / ending

I set a loop inside Anytune on the improv section and take it as many times as I need/want

I alsohave a Bluetooth pedal that makes this (and a few other functions) very easy.
Leaves the hands free for playing.

Most people recommend the simplest setup with MP3s for minimum risk, but a number of people use BiaB successfully for live gigs. FWIW, I've used iRealPro for live gigs, though BiaB sounds much better.

I'd suggest a proper external sound module like a Focusrite, Presonus, whatever. The headphone output can be a bit temperamental in my experience. The connectors isn't hugely robust and hum can sometimes be a problem. Proper sound modules sound far better.

One solution to not knowing when your backing track will stop and out of the blue "boom, it stops", is to place something notable in your backing track just prior to the ending. You could insert extra drums, crash cymbals, guitars, etc in the last set of bars. When playing live, this will alert you that the eding will soon arrive.

You can also play around with the "Ending Options" within BiaB to achieve a similar effect. There is lots of flexibility in these settings.

I export to MIDI, modify, and make mp3s.

Once in a MIDI sequencer (or DAW) I can insert cues as to when things are going to happen. It might be a drum roll, piano glissando, whistle, cuica, bass run, depending on the mix and what I think I could hear well. I'll do this for when vocals start, when the end of a long solo is coming, or before the last chord progression, so I know when the end is near.

There is more than one right way to do this, and this is my right way.

BTW, I never use the headphone jack to get audio out of my laptop. I use a USB to Audio interface. The advantages are; no static even if the connection is touched, wider bandwidth, and stability.

A basic, no-frills USB->Audio interface works just fine.

Notes ♫

agree with the idea of putting a 'cue' in. one song we had had a long intro and i often came in at the wrong time. so i put a cymbal crash on the bar before.

https://youtu.be/y4XcsYySauI

Yep, been there, done that !

Check out the Conductor, it will do this perfectly. Basically, you need access to your laptop's keyboard. You set the Conductor to use a number key such as 1 and typically set it to one or two bars before a part marker but set it to not jump until the next bar. You can set it to jump the instant you hit the number key but to me that's awkward. Unless your timing is perfect, you're messing with the count of the song. That gives you a bar to hit the 1 key and it will loop or jump somewhere else. Also set the ending to say, the number 2 key and one bar before the part marker. If you hit 2 during that bar it will jump to the ending bar number and you're out.

Having said that I've heard it doesn't work so well with some Real Tracks but I know it works perfectly if you're using a midi synth. When the RT's first came out I tested the Conductor with them and they worked great but that was just a small amount of early RT's and since then we've gotten hundreds - thousands? - of new RT's with different things added and people have said many don't work so just give it a try and see.

Bob

Old post, I know, but wanted to chime in for those searching the topic. I agree with mrgeeze. Anytune is the ideal companion to BIAB for live performance. I wish PG Music would update BIAB with Anytune's features but since it doesn't have them, Anytune is the way to go, IMO. It's cross platform working on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android.

BIAB has sections that, except for the occasional inserted push, is easily segmented in chunks that can be looped. Most Pop tunes are easily separated into chunks that can be looped as well. Whether you use Anytune on a computer, tablet or phone, it shows you the Markers you've created. It also has some very useful features for looping. You can for example loop on the fly or loop on predesignated sections. You can advance to a section immediately or after the current section finishes. This is great for when you've got the direction to end your song; you can end it gracefully. Those wanting these functions should really check it out. I create a number of versions (tempo, styles, keys etc.) of the same tune. I also create versions that are minus instruments in case I'm playing with a bass player or guitarist etc. I use a naming convention that identifies these settings and place them in folders like Duo w/Guitar, Duo w/Bass etc. It's very cool.

Here's a screenshot of Sunny in C using the CLSFUNK style at 120 bpm that has no Piano and no Guitar track all done from BIAB. 1st time adding an image to a Post so hope this works.

Markus,

One trick I learned is to pan the drums hard left and the bass hard right in my arrangements. I use the pan control in anytune to mix these tracks down live at the gig. Saves having to make more mixes. Works great as long as you know who might not show up.

I also use a Irig Blueboard for start/stop play, next/previous tune, loop on/off (for soloing). This means no fumbling for controls while playing my guitar.

I'm a longtime AAPL shareholder so I'm happy to live in the apple biosphere.
I own a Mac, a couple of Ipads and a iPhone. I keep all my performance tracks (320kbps Mp3's) stored in the cloud. I use the Mac as the Anytune "gospel" and propagate all my songs, marks, and setlists to the portable devices from it. It works great for keeping everything in sync. One ring to rule them all if you will.

I agree with you. At the present time, its the best there is.

Ooo, nice tip. Think I'm gonna have to steal that one! Thx

"It's cross platform working on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. "

I can't see the Windows version for that.

Hopefully Biab will be made to do all that soon as I posted so much info and demos.

1. The Conductor can be made to work with the RealTracks/Drums by using Smooth Seek same as Reaper to give seamless transitions from section to section.

2. It can be easily made into a Live Arranger playing any chord section instantly via midi keyboard input. This will be easiest done using the BBPlugin Standalone (giving a Win & Mac version at the same time using a common audio file format compressed or uncompressed). So whatever Style you choose it will load all the section info of each instrument in that Style, thus be able to playback Live instantly. This has all been shown to work using the instrument track data in Sforzando changing from one chord section to another, same was show in Reaper.

Musocity ,

Correct. No win version.

Don’t know if you need a win (or Mac)version as you typically would perform using an ios or android device (pad,phone).

I do feel fortunate having the Mac version on my desktop. Mostly to keep my aging mind better organized.

I think the idea here is to make it less complicated on stage. That’s my goal

Interesting topic as I use BIAB for backing tracks of many sorts; purchased it specifically to set up and use backing tracks.

As far as using it for performance, I'm a guitarist and absolutely detest hauling a bunch of equipment around. The less the better.

If you are using BIAB for performance backing tracks, considering a loop pedal or loop station might be worthwhile. (Provided you have an amp or PA of some sort (even a small one)... the looper has to have something to plug into.)

What I do for performance:

I set up the track in BIAB however I want it, save it on the PC then load it to a track on the loop pedal. I use a Boss RC-5 loop pedal (plenty of storage room and easy to use). I can set the track to loop until I stop it or play just once and stop. If a full song, I select that saved track, press the pedal and go. If a looping track, I can create a backing track of just drums and bass for example ... well, that's getting into how loop pedals work. Also, this loop pedal's display shows me how far along I am in the track and that's most helpful.

I'm sure other loopers can do the same thing, just be sure to check the features and functions.

The loop pedal or loop station is small and easy to haul around, simple to set up and use and provides a great playback of the BIAB file.

jdew, thanks for sharing your experiences, and welcome to the neighborhood.

Then there's me LOL. I use BIAB/the program right from the laptop. I have been doing this since I started using the program back in 2004 and have played hundreds of gigs without ONE GLITCH. The only other advise I will offer is "force yourself to sing", everyone can, some not as well as others but trust me your audience will listen to the entire package.

I emphasis the singing as an all instrumental gig is hard on both the musician as well as he/her audience.

Break A Leg!