I really need to understand how to work with midi better. A few questions:

1. In the track I won the PAK5-contest with I used three instances of FM8. For each of the 3 I used a different preset in FM8. However, when I open the file now, it seems to remember that I used FM8, but not which presets I used, so when I play the song I just hear the default midi-sounds.
Is it because I have to save the song in a special way to make it remember the presets I used or what?

2. When I watch the videos on this site about midi, many of them is about Sampletank and how to set it up. Is SampleTank something that is included with the Ultrapak or do I have to download it myself? I have a lot of other synths, but is SampleTank the one I should use to get better sounds on the miditracks (which sounds awful in the moment)?

Thank you in advance for helping me out with this!
Will

Will,
Midi can be tricky, but here is my take.
Sampletank is a complex software "sound module", I do not believe it is distributed by PG.

Regardless of that, If you have a track that is MIDI, you can go to "plugin" tab on mixer and choose the VST you want to use to replace the basic sounds of BIAB midi.

If you are new at midi, I would recommend experimenting with single instrument VST. Here is a very good (free) guitar:
https://www.amplesound.net/en/pro-pd.asp?id=7


Some VST allow for bank/sound saves. Not sure if BIAB will load particular sound bank that you selected in VST before closing the project (save state I believe is called FXB). If I need to save sounds and be sure they will sound same way they did, I save them within the VST and recall the saved state for particular song.

For example You save your song in BIAB as Song1 so you can save settings for VST (in VST) and save it as Song1 so you know which settings relate to which song.

I hope I am making sense here

PG Music use to include a free version of SampleTank. As I remember, first it was SampleTank 2 and then SampleTank 2.5. Both were 32 bit and thus compatible with Band-in-a-Box and RealBand. When SampleTank 3 was released the program is only available as a 64 bit program so PG Music replaced SampleTank 2.5 with Sforzando which is a free program with both a 32 and 64 bit version.

Originally the Hi-Q instruments utilized SampleTank and automatically called up SampleTank as needed to play the Hi-Q instruments used in midiSuperTracks. When a 32 bit version of SampleTank was no longer available PG Music re-released the H-Q instruments so they are compatible with Sforzando so now Sforzando is called when a midiSuperTrack is played.

Will,

Here is my take on saving the preset sound...

I'm sitting wondering if this is maybe a function of the VST plugin in combination with how BIAB interfaces with the plugin. There are a heap of different VSTi and DXi out there and it would be a challenge for PG Music to test all possibilities. I've just tried using Sampletank (a DXi and not VSTi) with one of the non-PG-Music sounds and it saved ok with the song. The FM8 may not interface on this level, though.

The only VSTi/DXi that I use in BIAB is Coyote WT. My reason for this is because its fast to load and to generate and it does the job well enough for finding a basic sound that lets me get the notes that I want for a part. Once I have the notes, then take my MIDI to Reaper where I use VSTi/DXi to dress up the sound to become what I want it to be. I've found that for my needs, a DAW is a better place to work with plugins.


In relation to Sampletank...

As Jim has mentioned, this used to come as a free plugin with BIAB. It was the VSTi that was first used when MIDI Supertracks first arrived in the program (if my memory is working properly). If you already have a heap of soft synths, there is probably no reason to get Sampletank.

Regards,
Noel

Will, did you use the full version of FM8 or the demo version? The Native Instruments demo version not only time out every 15-30 minutes (depending on the product), but will also deliberately be hobble in the saving of presets and/or patch changes and other things.

And Congrats again on the win!

Thank you all for your help and insights.

I realize now that it is time to change my workflow and get back to working with my daw, because it is probably much easier than trying to perform midi-miracles within BiaB.

@DeaconBlues
It is the full version of FM8 (I bought Ultimate 11), so it must be something else which is causing my problems. And thanks!

@Jim & Noel
As you suggest, I will try with some other synths and see if they work better with BiaB, because I would really like to hear better sounds when browsing the midi styles.

Will

Hi Will

There is also an option in BIAB under the file menu "save as" to save file with patch and harmony. This often helps, depending on the synth, and if it is an external synth track or a vsti. Worth a try if they do not save under a normal song save.

EG the mini moog i mentioned the other day as a vsti, as the patches are chosen inside the moog interface GUI they are saved with the MGU file.
The same is true of KONTAKT instruments chosen / loaded inside KONTAKT in a BIAB track.
Mike

Hi Mike,

Fantastic! That is absolute worth trying - it would be cool if the song could remember which presets I worked with.

Thanks again,
Will

Will, it came as "revelation" to me too only a few days ago... to use more DAW for working with tracks after user
dcuny (David) shared his workflow. (Thank you David!)

If interested, read second half of the thread:
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=495227#Post495227

Hi Will,

The Sampletank information has been previously presented so I will not address that issue. The saving of VSTi presets when saving from either BiaB or a DAW is a hit or miss situation. SOME VSTis when used in combination with SOME DAWs do not save the presets. I have the same problem with a couple of VSTis in Studio One Pro. Try what has already been suggested but if they don't work it probably isn't your fault.

My workflow is very similar to Noel's workflow. I get the style and most of the notes that I want in BiaB then drag and drop them into my DAW. In my DAW I experiment with sounds/VSTis.

To use the best sounds like, your FM8, it is best, IMHO, to use a 64 bit DAW. This way you will not have to use a wrapper like jBridge, i.e. no workaround.

What I like to do is to label what preset I am using in my DAW. That way if I come back to that song and the VSTi doesn't load the correct preset I know what to look for. I don't know if you can do this in BiaB as I do not use VSTis or VSTs in BiaB. Your workflow may be different.

I hope this helps and good luck.

Will, I work almost exclusively with MIDI. When saving a file, either in BIAB or RB, use the "Save As" function if you want to save your presets from your external "hard" synths, VSTi's or DXi's. Do this the first time your save your song. Later, if you do some modifications, edits, etc you can use the "Save" button and the presets if they were changed, will be saved. The key is "Save As" first, then "Save" for all subsequent modifications.

Jeff

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge.

I will try everything you suggest and will probably feel much more clever tomorrow!

Will

Will,

One last thought (just in case you have not already set this)...

To give the "Save As" option that many have mentioned above the best opportunity to work, make sure that you are running BIAB in "Run as administrator" mode. This is different from logging in to Windows as Administrator.

To set "Run as admin" permanently...

1. right-click on the startup shortcut

2. select properties

3. under the "Compatibility" tab, activate "Run as administrator

Regards,
Noel

• a co-write with J&B: Deciduous Love (with a twist of Tin Pan Alley)

Thanks Noel, but I have done that since I started using BiaB. I do that with most programs that I trust.

Will

I always use MIDI in my DAW. Sonar saves the settings for everything so this is not an issue in X1