Hi,
The subject line pretty much says it all. For example, if the first 4 bars of my song are repeated (so 8 bars are played, with or without 1st and 2nd endings), then, say, there are another 12 bars of music and at that point I want to insert a D.S. al Coda (or a D.C. al Coda or even a D.S. al Fine) so the song will play through again, from the designated bar, BIAB will not allow it!! It just won't allow the repeated section to include a repeat!!
Does anybody know why? I can't see what I've missed, it's just standard chart technique (what I'm trying to do) as far as I know...
Cheers,
Paul
Hi Paul,
Welcome to the forum.
I don't use repeats, DS, etc., as I prefer to lay my song out in a linear format. This allows for much greater control of arrangement using BIAB bar settings, chord settings and changing time signatures than employing repeats gives.
If you click on the link below, you'll see what I mean. This is one of my songs from a while ago and it shows the chordsheet playing it through.
https://vimeo.com/142767138Repeats etc., are a notational device for fitting music into the smallest number of pages possible. The "once through", expanded layout of playing a song is like an orchestra score since orchestra scores do no use repeats.
With copy and and paste, it's very quick to enter a song in linear form.
Just my two cents worth.
Hope it helps,
Noel
Highlight your chosen bar and right click. That should bring up a window that will give you Repeats/Codas/1st-2nd Endings. Click on that and you should see Repeats, 1st/2nd endings, DC al Coda, DC al Fine, DS al Coda and DS al Fine with a bunch of dialogs and options.
I have reported this to PGM since about 2004! It started once we had fake sheet printing.
I always enter my songs first in linear mode the add repeats, endings etc.
If you have a repeat and then try to add a ds al coda, BIAB won't show the DS al Coda mark, but will show the 'sign' as well as the jump out and jump to and will honour all of those marks. These, after all they are print functions not musical instructions. The DS seems to get lost in the repeat function coding / printing
PGM even tried to tell me one time it was because of RealTracks.
There are several other print functions that don't work properly with fake sheets. I have documented the ones I know about, including sending prints that don't include any notes or chords showing that it is the print, not the song that is causing the problem.
Occasionally PGM confirm the problem and supposedly report it to the developers, but nothing has ever happened - since 2004.
My work around is to put a text box where the DS should be.
Yep. As much as I love this program notation printing is not it's strong suit. Part of the problem is few users care about it. I have been complaining about this too for at least 10 years. I started a thread last year to try to really put pressure on PGM to improve the print function and was literally begging users to jump on board and support that thread. I laid out all the relatively small things that needed improvement including this D.S issue. Wanna know the response? 6 or 7 +1's. That's it.
Not going to get them to make it a priority if the concern is that low among users.
Bob
I was a beta tester of a dedicated music notation program for decades. Gotta say, getting this to work is a nightmare. The number of minute details and permutations is overwhelming.
It might be a reason, but it's not an excuse.
When they added layers to the notation for bar lyrics, for instance, it changed note based lyrics printed as well. Everything seems to be left justified such that you now lose all or part of the first character on a line of lyrics. It seems also to have changed how text (using the "T"" button) is treated. You used to be able to place it to the 'tick level' (eg bar / note / tick) but now it seems to left justify to the note.
I use lyrics on all my songs, and although the notation has never been a strong point, it seems to be getting worse. No amount of "we've passed it on to the developers" seems to make any difference.
Hi Noel,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I realise that there is the option to lay the song out in linear form (like a score), but my preference is to include notation shortcuts (DS al Coda, Repeats etc) for the exact reason you mentioned. I need to try and fit everything onto one page, mainly because I have to supply charts to other musicians who will eventually read them as a PDF on a tablet/iPad. In this case keeping the charts to one page helps avoid page turning mid song.
Cheers,
Paul
Hi JCland,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I know about that stuff, BIAB still will not allow me to add a DS/DC al Coda/Fine whatever, if there is an existing repeat somewhere in the song...
Hi Dave,
Thanks for that info. I'm not sure what you mean by "...they are print functions not musical instructions". They should be both, for playing back the song and also for printing. Either way, trying to add a DS/DC still won't work if a repeat already exists somewhere...
Cheers,
Paul
The DS, repeats, and endings do not affect the way the song plays, only how it looks on your fake sheet. You just tell BIAB where to put them. If you are off by a bar BIAB will play what you created and show what it was told. These may not be the same if you have given the wrong instructions.
Laying in linear form just means that the song, is not 32x3 for instance but 96x1. The DS, repeats, and endings make it look like 32x3 on the fake sheet.
As for ds/dc not working if there is any repeat, I have never seen that. If there is a DS that occurs after the repeat, I think it will show. Even with the repeat, the ds works, it just doesn't show up. The sign and the exit from the song and the entry to the coda are there. Remember the DS is a method the show a return to an earlier bar, it doesn't actually affect the music being played. If you have tried to use DS with the built in repeat within BIAB, all bets are off. Just unfold the song (ie make 32x3 = 96x1) and use the repeats / endings dialogue.
i use linear form. its just so much easier
Does anyone know if this is fixed in 2020? It's been around since 2004
Dave, I don't believe that there have been any changes that affect the way this feature operates in 2020.