I consider myself relatively new to BIAB 2020, having used older BIAB extensively around 2003-2007. Back then I used to export midi tracks to other apps and then manipulate them to sound more realistic. I have found that one that I relied on a lot for this is no longer available and my old version of it will not run on Windows 10.

My question is:- what is the best way to get realistic sounding instruments from MIDI files?

Hi
Well I guess it depends what you have available.
If you have a keyboard with basic gm midi sounds try sending to that as an external midi sound generator and listen to them there.
If you want to stay just within the pc (the advantage here is the ability to direct render within the program) try one of the gm midi compatible Vsti like my XG lite Vsti if you like Yamaha type sounds ,and if you download and install my pat file for this you will also be able to access the xg higher bank voices.
Link to XG vsti and patfile from my web site:

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/my_technical_articles2.html#XG_vst

If you like Roland type voices try the free 64 bit TTS1 available if you download the
Free Cakewalk Daw by band lab the later assumes you are running 64 bit BIAB.
There are other possibilities like sound font players etc but try a couple of the above first.
At the very least use the Coyote wave table Dxi from Biab.
Have fun
Mike

I prefer external synth modules. The Ketron SD2 has the best General MIDI sound set I've heard (but I've only heard a dozen or so). It's no longer available in the US but I got one recently from Thomann in Germany shipped to the USA.

Here is what I like about hardware synth modules more than software synths

• They don't become obsolete when the computer OS changes. I have synth modules I bought in the 1980s, when Windows 3.1 and Mac OS6 were current operating systems and they still work perfectly today
• Software synths have to 'do the math' to create each and every sound on each and every note, so the programmers take short-cuts which compromise the tone while the hardware modules store everything in ROM so the sounds can be more nuanced and have more realistic tone
• They don't tax the computer's CPU so they don't bog down your system
• Since they don't bog down your system, there is virtually no latency (actually they average about 5 ms)
• Since the latency is about the same for all synth modules you can mix and match taking the best sounds from many synth modules and use them in the same song

Disadvantages:
You need a separate amp/speaker instead of the one in your computer.

Insights and incites by Notes

Hi Killer,

"Great sounds from MIDI" are very dependent on the quality of soft-synth used.

If you have a listen to the below song that I co-wrote with Steve Young, you'll hear what I mean.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=573582#Post573582

This song only has two Realtracks... a celtic harp and the bass... Except for some aspects of the music box, Steve added everything else and played everything else with MIDI. His synthesisers, though, are first class... Native Instruments, Eastwest, Ableton.

Regards,
Noel

Killer, you might also drop in on this parallel thread: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=369985#Post369985

I would say the easiest place to start would Be Cakewalk's free TTS1 as was suggested by Mike. Price is right on that, but sounds are a bit outdated. (15+ years)

The next, I would try VSTsynthfont. I believe it comes free with BIAB, if its not, it is cheap enough. It uses SF2 Soundfonts / Banks, which come in all shapes and colors. Meaning, you get a whole GM bank at around 20 megs or a single instrument at 300Megs+. You can find a lot of free or fairly priced SF2 instruments online. VSTsynthfont requires some tweaking, but it can sound much better than old trusted TTS1.

The step up is Halion Sonic 3. A 25+ GB standalone or VST module that has a selectable GM mode (if you are into it). I believe Sonic 3 is the only current synth that has General Midi. Sounds much better than choices above and very "tweakable". Much easier to use than Kontakt. The only major drawback, you get what you get. The 3rd party libraries are almost non-existent.

Kontakt VST sampler....Very versatile, you can get amazing sounding instruments. No GM mode. "Factory Library" is very mediocre in my opinion, so all "instruments" if you want a better selection, would have to be purchased separately.

Well.... the first question I would ask is what genre and style of music are you trying to write and record? If it's a style that uses a lot of electronic instruments, then yes..... buy a couple of nice top of the line Sample library synths. Native Instruments is a great place to start. I look at SFZ and TTS as pretty close to the bottom of the quality barrel as far as good sounding synths go.

If you are writing and recording rock and country music, the question I would ask is WHY are you even looking at midi? If you have BB and it's associated Real Tracks.... use real tracks and work with audio. I will occasionally use midi for piano, bass, and drums but that is pretty rare these days.

So to answer your question. Stop using midi and move to using Real Tracks audio files. Of course that depends on the kind of music you write.

All of the above are excellent advise, although you have got to make achoice of hardware or software as has been said in previous posts.

I have Sampletank 3, tts1,Halion sonic 3 ,kontakt (free version) with strum and picked guitars these are the ones I have worth mentioning.

The software one I would go for would be Halion sonic it does it all and does it well.

Hardware modules I have used are Ketron1000, Roland sonic cell and Now the Roland bk7m is the one I use at the moment and the bk7 is absolutely astonishing, Beautiful piece of kit.

The software equivalent( although not as good) in my opinion is sonic halion , I have extensively done compare on them all.

Hope this helps.

P.S. if you want I can try send a few songs that are midi done in the Roland bk7module I will send them in a wav format so you get to hear bk7 sounds, I don't know if I can send them in a PM ?.

HI Beatmaster

Interesting to read you are using the Roland Bk7.
I know a couple of folks that have them connected to midi controller keyboards and Yamaha Digital piano in one case. They seem very pleased with them and certainly produce some good sounds.
Can you confirm for me if you are connected to your pc via usb A to B lead as in to host, or are you using the midi in out sockets on the Bk7 to a midi interface and then to the pc.
It is not clear from the manual if you can do the former which would be my preferred way of connecting this type of module to a pc.
Thanks
Mike

Hi Mike

I have the bk connected to pc via usb and I bought an older M audio keyboard controller that has midi, so I can connect keyboard controller to midi bk..Bk to pc via Usb .
A lot of the newer keyboard/controllers do not have the midi connections as I am sure you know.

I had it set with just midi out and it also worked fine .

I have tried recording in cakewalk with this set up and all is good , It works fine for Biab, and for using the keyboard to control I.E. strummed acoustic etc.

Just got it a few weeks ago so yea settling in with the set up.

In my experience the software synth model of the hardware synths have never sounded as good.

Someday software synths might sound as good as the hardware ones, and when that day comes, I might switch.

But then again, like all software, the synths are bound to become obsolete and/or need a pricey upgrade to work on a future release of a computer OS.

Insights and incites by Notes

Thanks everyone for their input and suggestions. I'm going to have to do some research, learning . . . and have fun . . . to get to where I want to be.

Basically - at the moment I want to "stay within the pc," as all my other gear is in storage.

Previously I've created the song I want in BIAB (or sometimes in other apps such as Jammer Pro), exported to a MIDI file, manipulated the sounds (often in Bandstand), and then mixed in Acoustica's Mixcraft.

So, I don't have any experience in setting up BIAB in using Vsti and PAT files.

I feel my first area to investigate and learn will be correctly setting up my inputs and outputs. And that will include using Vsti and PAT files?

Does that sound the correct route to take first? Or have you any other suggestions?

I'm a little way down the track! I have setup my sound like this:-

Use VSTi/DXi Synth AND Route MIDI Thru to MIDI Driver are both checked

The button below I have set to CoyoteWT.

GM2 support is set to Roland GS (older module SC55/SC88)

Now, when I use a MIDI style I can change the instruments by right-clicking the instrument > Select MIDI Instrument (Patch ) > In here my first option is "Select Hi-Q MIDI Patch " (all of them are Sforzando).

I expected to see the Coyote instruments listed here?

How do I access other instruments?

Also - Mike, thank you for the offer of the "XG vsti and patfile from my web site" is this the correct article? http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/my_technical_articles2.html?i=1#XG_vst

If so I'll need to read, digest and install tomorrow.

Thanks again everyone. I feel I'm making progress thanks to y'all!

Killer

HI

THE link you show takes you to all my technical Articles you can find it this way.
But the link I posted in the second post on this thread will take you direct to the specific page.
Have fun
Mike

On your other point the coyote wave table does not have a specific named set of voices so if using this you just select general midi.

Midi thru will only effect if you want to play along on a midi keyboard, and unticked the sound will go to the vst / dxi, ticked the thru voice goes to an exteral midi keyboard with voices or external mid module.
Mike

HI Again
Here is another of my articles that may help a bit with understanding the workings of vsti and soft syths in BIAB melody and soloist tracks. The first part should be some help with what you are trying to achieve.

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/my_technical_articles2.html#kontakt_biab

Mike

Hi Beatmaster - thanks for the offer of some songs via a PM. At the moment I'm concentrating on understanding how to correctly setup the midi/vsti/dxi.

Will take you up on your offer when my mind's a bit clearer!

Cheers!

Killer

This was just a test to see if posting a screenshot was easy!

I'm still slowly yet surely working away at this . . . I've gone back to basics, got my MIDI/Audio setup as below:-
No MIDI output driver
Synth/Sound Card Coyote WaveTabeDXi
I've selected (checked) 'Use VSTi/DXi synth'
Deselected (unchecked) 'Route MIDI thru to MIDI Driver'
DXi Synth setting to [CoyoteWT]

for testing purposes I'm using a MIDI-only style VENTURE1.STY (it's loaded RealDrums as realdrums substitution is set in Prefs).

If I now change instruments as below:-

I right-click the instrument I want to change and “Select MIDI instrument (Patch)”

Am I correct in saying that “Select General MIDI patch” simply gives me a list of the available ‘standard’ MIDI instruments?

“Select GM2 Patch” gives me more instruments (these are available from whatever my GM2 patches are)?

To be honest, none of these sound particularly good. However, my top option after clicking “Select MIDI instrument (Patch)” is "Select Hi-Q MIDI Patch Plugin" and these sounds are realistic and this is what I am hoping for/expecting from other plugins. This is a Sforzando tgs patch plugin.

I guess my question is - how do I get more that sound like these? I

Also, when I click on Plugins I only have three options listed (Coyote, Sforzando and VSTSynthFont64) BUT I cannot see/understand where/how I pick up the VSTSynthFont64 sounds.

AND where would I get more like them?

Thanks for sticking with me on this!

Killer

Hey Killer,

The image link you posted is pointing to one of your computer's storage drives; specifically the "D" drive.

You may find attaching an image to a post easier than using a link. +++ HERE +++ is a link to a thread posted by Noel96 that provides step-by-step instructions for posting a screen shot.

Thank you - not the most intuitive place to have to click to attach an image - the "Enter an image" icon looked like the one! I'll see if I can upload to my previous post.

I've updated to my previous post . . . anyone evaluate what I'm doing wrong?

Killer,

Thanks for posting the screen shot.

The MIDI sounds you normally hear are the Coyote Wavetable DXi. That is the same instrument sounds or patches as the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth just played through a different player than the default, classic Windows Media Player.

The Hi-Q instrument sounds is a package of patches from PG Music. PG Music purchased some of the patches from IKMultimedia and created some in house. PG Music switched to Sforzando when IKMultimedia no longer offered a 32 bit player. All the Hi-Q patches switched from the SampleTank tgs file format to the Sforzando tgs file format.

PG Music packaged Synthfont64 starting with the first 64 bit release of Band-in-a-Box.

An internet search for "free Sforzando sounds" will give back links to many patches.