Okay, I know Google is my friend and BIAB forum is great ... but I can't find much info on this topic.

Pushes

I know what a push is, how to configure it in BIAB and that it is basically a rhythmic element, but I'd like to know the following ... or anything else someone in the know thinks worthwhile.

1. What are a few good example of songs, pop, country or jazz, that use pushes?

2. When a chord is pushed, do composers tend to push all voices except drums and bass, selective voices, or ...?

3. For an example in a vanilla 4/4 8 bar verse or chorus, are there any conventions on which beats per bar get pushed and whether that pattern persists through all 8 bars, e.g., every beat for a particular instrument/ voice, beat 3 on each bar, etc?

Thanks for your input.

This is a really good set of questions and an interesting topic that I would also like to learn more about.

My opinion on #2 is that composers and players will be all over the map on this depending on the feel they are trying to achieve. I'm thinking that the drums will be "centered" and be the reference for others to play on, ahead or behind. If everyone is playing behind (or ahead) then the band is centered. From what I understand, playing ahead or playing behind the beat can be subtle especially if you are a listener. Maybe the best way to discuss this is to look at the waveforms in a DAW. I'd be interested in what others have to say on this.

This video may be useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxTvZFaGGUs

Thanks, Thump ...

I enjoyed the video and it obviously provokes a lot of questions.

I think I should have added this question.

4. Are pushes particularly common or signature part of certain genres?

As far as BIAB and pushes go, I think this is something other that what the video focuses on: a bass playing ahead or behind the beat.

I conclude this because were this the case with BIAB and 'Bar Settings' the pushes would be like muting an instrument that persists until you enter chord without any 'exclude.'

I would imagine that playing, for an example, a bass ahead, on or behind the beat would already be reflected with RealTracks in the assembled styles on offer.

With MIDI and a DAW I can see how one could play around with ticks to push a bass different places against the beat. This is easily done in Cubase with it's MIDI modifiers. You can even do it with a range or randomization for each drum element when you place the drum track MIDI on separate tracks with slight randomization for the main drum element, e.g., kick, -3 to +3, and greater and different offsets for snare, e.g., -2 to +12, to humanize the drums.

But I fear I am hi-jackining my own thread.

Here I'm really interested in use of pushes in BIAB.

Pushes break the monotonous flow of the accompaniment. In Biab you have some options: hold a chord, mute or a short hit.
And you can push it by 1/8th or 1/16th of a bar.

Takes some experimenting, but without it, you only have endless accompaniment. With good use of pushes and holds you can make an arrangement, a rhythmic arrangement.
I made this some time ago. Every pink chord is a push, a hold or a short hit.
If you would like to have the mgu-file, it’s on my blog.

Thanks, Dzjang!

I've downloaded the *mgu and will take a look.

As I said earlier in the thread, I know how to access and implement the shots, holds and rests and to exclude instrument (i.e., let some play through on the normal beat; and, I surmise that pushes per se are a rhythmic element.

So far, your input, demonstrates the use of this rhythmic arrangement element in jazz composition.

I would like a clarification however (that I'll probably be able to see once I load your file). When you say "accompaniment," what are you meaning? Everything but a soloist? Or just the harmonic progression? Or?

I'm still hoping to hear from someone about pop or R'nB songs that are examples of use of pushes.

@DFT

Accompaniment means the whole band, I think. Since pushes and holds only pertain to drums and bass I’m not sure what other instruments do while holds and pushes are played. I never use other instruments than bass and drums, so I am not sure.

For pop and rnb, a lot of songs use it. Oye Como Va comes to mind. Long and winding Road. Riders on the storm….

Have fun

Dzhang!

Super helpful, thanks so much.

Since I downloaded your file ... which for some reason wouldn't play on my system ... and saw that you were pushing everything but drums, I've played around with it like that to great success. It can really put an infectious rhythm into a song.

If you are “pushing everything but drums”…. Are you not just “pulling” drums… or would you say that the drum beat is the starting point and everything is defined relative to that…. Or maybe my comments are just semantics….

There may be better and more knowledgeable replies, but I understand this as 'the beat goes on.' That is, the drums continue to keep the expected rhythm on the song in a constant manner, with the music intermittently changing slightly ahead of the beat. So, in that sense, the drums are never pulled.

Try it. I've found it sounds good to me when used in a repeated pattern on something like beat one or three of bar two and four in a pop song. A little goes a long ways.