Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#102878 01/21/11 09:51 PM
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Hi guys,
Firstly I must apologise as this may be quite a long post, but please bear with me.

You may recall from an earlier thread that I’m having problems with the higher bank patches with the Ketron SD2; well despite all the suggestions & help from the forum (which were very much appreciated) the problem is still there.

Basically, BIAB will not change to upper bank patches when programmed into the song file. The patch changes “stick”, and BIAB acknowledges that a (higher) patch change has been inserted, but will not switch to the upper bank. Lower bank patches – no problem.

The MIDI monitor does not show CC changes for MSB.

I’ve ascertained that the upper bank patches do work, by manually changing the spinner during playback. I’ve done return to factory settings several times, re-installed BIAB 2011 on top of 2010.5, and I’ve and uninstalled BIAB totally (several times) and reinstalled it from the HD.

I’ve checked the patch change options in Pref/MIDI file options (include patch changes in MIDI files), Pref/MIDI options (allow any patch change) and Pref/Overrides (allow loading patch changes.

Is there any I’ve missed?
Is there anywhere a reference box that relates to allowing higher bank patches?

I’m getting an occasional mysterious message when I use the MIDI monitor – a box appears titled “ Working….” and contains “please wait…building test block”, but I’ve let it run for up to 30 minutes without anything happening.

Now here’s something really strange; I installed BIAB2011 onto a computer at work (not connected to a keyboard or Ketron so I couldn’t listen), entered a few bars with higher bank patch changes, and ran the MIDI monitor, and it showed that LSB/MSB were changing from 0 to 1 as they should. However I tried it again today, and it no longer shows the CC changes.(Both computer are running XP)

So, I’m stumped (and frustrated) and don’t know what to do next.
Perhaps I should remove 2011 and reinstall 2010/2010.5 and see if it works??

Any suggestions – no matter how trivial or left field – may just prove to be the solution.
Thanks everyone.


Cheers,
Keith
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
R
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
R
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
Keith, I've just spent hours making almost all the same observations you report! Not only that, I was doing it in the context of trying to help folks on the Yahoo group use the feature. (How embarrassing is that?) I even had the same impression as you, that it worked initially then stopped and not even a factory reset (with .pat preservation) fixed it. (I'm running Win7x64.) So I came over here to see if anyone had reported it, and lo, here's your post a couple hours young.

I will keep looking at it. But please, PLEASE PG, lose interest in midi if you must, but don't break what was already there...

-Ron

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Hallelujah!!

Thank you Ron. I was starting to feel very alone in BIAB world, but now that you've reported a similar thing, I see it may be a bug.

Whew!! Return to sanity

If I recall, with a previous high bank patch problem, it was a similar time frame - everyone else's worked okay, but one by one they all succumbed to the same problem. The PG people fixed it in the next build; hopefully they will again.

Perhaps other forum users will check to see if it's happening to them.


Cheers,
Keith
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Okay, I'm going to set up my BB2011 to run nuthin' but the SD2 here again and see what I can find.

You'll have to give me a day or so to find the time to get that round tuit, though.

Meanwhile, since we already have two good reports on this problem now, I suggest that you contact pgmusic development via email with a short "I did this and got this result" kind of bulleted step-by-step description of the problem you are having, plus it might be good to append a BB songfile that shows this happening. They should have at least one SD2 up there set aside for testing purposes, although this is not likely to be a problem for just the SD2, sounds to me like MSB is not being sent for *any* hardware synth that may require same...


--Mac

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
My friend uses a Ketron live a couple nights a week. This upper Bank thing plagued him for quite some time as well prior to the fix in 2009.5. I've just sent him an email to see if it's back although if it was I think I'd here him scream from Fl all the way to NC. I'll post back as soon as I hear.


John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
R
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
R
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
Let me be clear. I'm not using the Ketron. This has nothing to do with the sound source. Until I'm proven otherwise, and I'd love to be, the basic F5 utility for sending higher bank Program Changes is broken. I think Keith's issue is the same. I scanned that (very long) other thread about the SD2, and so far am convinced all issues can be explained by my supposition.

I just rebooted my computer: no improvement. Running build 313 under Win 7 pro x64. Here's a typical test:

1) Load new song, make it one chorus, 12 bars, key of C, no chords entered.
2) Solo the piano and ensure it's on default channel (3). Set it to no patch change, (or to a GM patch, doesn't matter.)
3) Disable any DXi.
4) Load a style that has a piano patch defined (or does not, doesn't matter), but disable style patch changes in Midi Options.
5) In the chord window, put cursor in Bar 5, first half, and press F5. In the patches column, choose a patch from the higher bank selector. It can even be a GM patch, if that bank is included in your .pat file, as it is in mine. Disable "send patch changes with Style" although that setting makes no difference here.
6) Open the MIDI Monitor and toggle the "always on top" tick - even if it is already on (there's a bug here that doesn't honor this setting until you manually reset it; and Keith YES, I also get that crazy "rebuilding list" message from the MIDI monitor; there's another bug in the Midi Monitor with the 'play' button; the MIDI monitor's been buggy this way for years. But I digress). Set the monitor filter for only Channel 3, and only controllers 0 and 32, and the program change.
7) Set an initial GM patch for the piano at top of chord window (or leave it no patch defined, doesn't matter). Oh wait, I already said that. But if you do it now, you'll see the change immediately displayed by the Midi Monitor, which should convince you it is at least capturing events correctly. (If you don't see that, make sure you've got "Host Program Output" ticked in the Filter window.)
8) Hit play from main menu and watch midi monitor.
The initial transmissions are sent (cc's only if there was no patch defined, program change included if there was), but NOTHING from Bar 5! Zilch. Nada. And, btw, in the F5 window, higher bank dialog, the "Send Patch" button doesn't work either.
9) Use the Save + button with "save all settings with song" enabled. I save as "test.sgu". Reload the .sgu, and play again with midi monitor open. Same result.

If you're uncomfortable with midi monitor, use a Dxi or synth, and do same test, watching for patch changes on that channel.

Repeat: this is NOT a synth problem. It's a fundamental breaking of the higher bank sending facility when it's invoked at the bar settings level. You load a higher bank patch at the song level (ie. at the top of the chord sheet), it works. You do so from F5, it doesn't.

Matilda, I'm down on my knees, I'm begging you please: Prove me wrong.... (apologies to Simon & Garfunkel)

-Ron

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Quote:

My friend uses a Ketron live a couple nights a week. This upper Bank thing plagued him for quite some time as well prior to the fix in 2009.5. I've just sent him an email to see if it's back although if it was I think I'd here him scream from Fl all the way to NC. I'll post back as soon as I hear.



Hi John,
Is your friend using 2011? If so it may be wise for him to have a copy of 2010 handy just in case the problem occurs mid gig. There would be nothing worse. I've just put 2010 onto my laptop to test, and the higher bank thing is okay.


Cheers,
Keith
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 409
J
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
J
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 409
Hi folks,
Just for U'ens I hooked up my Juno and ran a couple of tests. First I tried gm2 mode and that worked correctly. Then I loaded a .pat file and I could not get it to work on the high banks using the f5 key. It will send the program change if it's set in the left hand + box but it won't send the control changes from the right hand + box. So it's not working here either. I'm running BB 2011 (313) on XP SP3.

Aside:

Mac, how do you manage to have so many round tuits? I'm 67 and retired, and I used to think I'd have oddles of 'em once I got away from the salt mines, but, truth is, my round tuits seem to be scarce as hen teeth. lol.

Later,
Jim


I'd be completely happy if I had just one more guitar.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 317
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 317
Just my opinion on round tuits-I don't think Mac and his other forum members who always seem to come up with answers--------never sleep! Thanks guys. DennisD


There are only 3 kinds of musicians: those that can count, and those that can't!
PC AMD A4-5300 APU 3.4 GHz, 8gb RAM, 1T HDD, Windows 10,
Reaper 4.77, BIAB2018, PTPA12, RB2018, Roland VS-880 DAW
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 259
R
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 259
Hi Keith,
can't get it to work either. Running Win 7.

With my system, pressing f5 or alt f5 brings up some sort of a volume slider?
When I right click and choose bar settings, I get the correct window.

It appears to change gm2 patches & banks, but totally ignores any higher banck changes.

Hopefully they'll fix it.

I also tried it with my PA800 patch list. Same problem as SD2


best wishes
rikki

BIAB 2020
Yamaha sx900
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Hi Rikki,
It's odd, because I recall a few days ago you checked it for me and yours was working fine.
The same thing happened to me.
I'm not getting the volume slider though.

I'll get in touch with the help desk. Thanks for responding.


Cheers,
Keith
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Quote:

Quote:

My friend uses a Ketron live a couple nights a week. This upper Bank thing plagued him for quite some time as well prior to the fix in 2009.5. I've just sent him an email to see if it's back although if it was I think I'd here him scream from Fl all the way to NC. I'll post back as soon as I hear.



Hi John,
Is your friend using 2011? If so it may be wise for him to have a copy of 2010 handy just in case the problem occurs mid gig. There would be nothing worse. I've just put 2010 onto my laptop to test, and the higher bank thing is okay.



Yes he does. He got back to me & told me that for his gigs he now uses 100% RTs. He's a Jazz guitarist and only uses ,Bass,Drums & piano. The Ketron rig is now his backup rig.It used to be the primary. He will test for me though & I'll report back.


John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 259
R
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 259
Hi Keith,
so sorry, I misread what you were trying to do. I was getting the changes through that spinner function I think you were refferring to. Hadn't realized one could actually insert program changes via Bar Settings F5.
I've got a lot to learn.


My SD2 used to give me grief when I used to use it with my One Man Band arranger software or my psr keyboard. The way the sd2 only uses msb to change banks , instead of msb & lsb like most other keyboards & synths do, made things difficult. It was a great sounding little module though.



Quote:

Hi Rikki,
It's odd, because I recall a few days ago you checked it for me and yours was working fine.
The same thing happened to me.
I'm not getting the volume slider though.

I'll get in touch with the help desk. Thanks for responding.



Last edited by rikkisbears; 01/23/11 08:45 PM.

best wishes
rikki

BIAB 2020
Yamaha sx900
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My friend uses a Ketron live a couple nights a week. This upper Bank thing plagued him for quite some time as well prior to the fix in 2009.5. I've just sent him an email to see if it's back although if it was I think I'd here him scream from Fl all the way to NC. I'll post back as soon as I hear.



Hi John,
Is your friend using 2011? If so it may be wise for him to have a copy of 2010 handy just in case the problem occurs mid gig. There would be nothing worse. I've just put 2010 onto my laptop to test, and the higher bank thing is okay.



Yes he does. He got back to me & told me that for his gigs he now uses 100% RTs. He's a Jazz guitarist and only uses ,Bass,Drums & piano. The Ketron rig is now his backup rig.It used to be the primary. He will test for me though & I'll report back.



Sorry man but his is working just fine.


John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,960
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,960
Thanks - we'll look into this further


Andrew
PG Music Inc.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118
D
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
D
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118
For the record . . .

I have the same exact problem that Keith from Oz has reported.
Thank you Keith for the clear report.
Let's hope it's fixed soon.
I use this live and I always fear some goofy result when I hit play.

Don

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Thanks everyone for responding. For those who are not yet affected, and are using higher bank patches on live gigs, please be careful, as the problem can sneak up on you. On two separate computers it was working fine one day, and the problem surfaced on the next use.


Cheers,
Keith
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118
D
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
D
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118
Time to chime in on this again.

Studio computer where arrangements are created uses VSC (Vista). No problem here.
Lap top computer (for live performance) has W7 OS and the Ketron 2 for sound(cannot use VSC W/W7).

Used the Ketron 2 live yesterday.
Higher bank commands sent for Hawaiin guitar - came out Sitar.
Sounded like a cross between Ravi Shankar and The Three Stooges.
Lots of strange looks from the audience.
Crap!

Just got a call for a performance in a few hours from now.
Not much time to test things out so I'll try to choose what seems safe.

VERY, VERY ANNOYING!

Someone - please fix ASAP.

Don

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Yes, by all means I'd choose the safer path of the VSC DXi for that gig.

And I wouldn't tell anybody that anything is any different and they likely wouldn't know or notice.

(Have done it before that way)

Hopefully development is going to release an update with the fix, keep checking for that update periodically and then we should be able to safely use the hardware synths and upper banks with them again.


--Mac

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,442
I see that Team PG has been working hard fixing some issues with Real Tracks, so perhaps this problem is next on the list.
Here's hoping!


Cheers,
Keith
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,393
Posts732,476
Members38,441
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy, BenChaz, Csofi
38,440 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 113
dcuny 87
rsdean 83
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5