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#104851 - 02/07/11 02:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] All midi voices have the same patch
Benboom Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
Hi -

I'm new to BIAB and I registered here just because of this question, which is driving me nuts. When I use midi tracks (as opposed to Realtracks, which seem fine) all my midi voices are coming out with the same voice. I am using the Plugsound Global module, which is a replacement for GM soft synths, and is multitimbral. However, the same thing happens with the few other soft synths I have tried. The correct patch NAMES show up when I load a song, but (for example) everything is coming out as a piano right now. If I go into the Soft Synth dialog and select a different instrument that changes, but the voices still all play the same one (I tried it with a pan flute to see - sure enough, bass gets played as a low pan flute then).

I am using Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit), and I also have ASIO4ALL installed, although I am not using it with BIAB. I had to have that one because I also use Reaper as my DAW and its performance is awful without it. Could someone please tell me what other information to supply in order to figure this out?

Thank you.

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#104852 - 02/07/11 02:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
Muzic Trax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4932
Loc: California
Ctrl+Alt+Q will send a GM reset in Biab. If your playback device is GM standard, press those 3 together and see if it resets your patches. It should as long as your playback device is General Midi Standard.

You may also want to check your midi driver device and see what it is set to in Biab. Opt/Pref/Midi Device Driver

Trax

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#104853 - 02/07/11 02:59 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7212
Do a return to factory settings. It sounds like the instrument table might have gotten messed up.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
http://wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.html

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#104854 - 02/07/11 03:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: silvertones]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18804
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Are all the tracks on the same MIDI channel?

That's what it sounds like to me.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#104855 - 02/07/11 03:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: rharv]
Benboom Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
According to the MIDI Settings box the channels are set to the defaults, ie, Bass = 2, Piano = 3, etc.

I reset to factory original settings and the Microsoft Wavetable synth works okay (as okay as it can - that's why I don't want to use use it) with different voices for bass, piano, etc. But as soon as I select a soft synth everything goes to hell and anything that is not a Realtrack comes out with the same patch on the soft synth. I can't even find anywhere in the Synth window to select patches for different tracks - I tried the Lounge Lizard multitimbral piano synth too, but everything comes out with the same piano then - the one that comes up in the Synth DXi window. I have Halion but it does not display properly (15% of the window is cut off at the bottom) in BIAB and is unusable, which is a real drag.

I have tried all the MIDI drivers available in the MIDI/Audio drivers setup but nothing seems to work right except the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, which I don't want to use. For input I have the choice of MIDISPORT 2x2 In A and 2x2 In B; for MIDI Output drivers I have a choice of No MIDI/Sound Output, Microsoft MIDI Wrapper, Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, MIDISPORT 2c2 Out A and Ditto Out B. I have the Use VST/DXi Synth checked currently and also the Route MIDI Thru to MIDI Driver. I have tried various pulldown options under the Synthsizer/Sound card menu, but none of them made a difference and at the moment it is set to synth/sound card not listed.

It's quite frustrating.

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#104856 - 02/07/11 03:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
MartinB Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 4853
This happens with "Melody/Track Type -> Multi (16) -Channel" selected. Selecting "Single Channel" may rectify the problem.
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Martin

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#104857 - 02/07/11 04:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: MartinB]
Benboom Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
Thanks! That helps a lot; It is now playing a MS bass but a Lounge Lizard piano. The Lounge Lizard is 32 voice multitimbral but I can't get any of the other voices to play through it right now...still, this is a big step forward! Now I need to figure out how to get a multitimbral soft synth to accept input from the different channels. There doesn't seem to be any option for that - do I misunderstand?

EDIT: No, I was wrong. It sounded like a bass, but it was actually just an electric piano playing a rather convincing midi line. I switched the soft synth to an organ and suddenly all the midi tracks were playing the organ instead. I can only get one sound out of the multitimbral soft synths at a time, and yet the MS Wavetable synth seems to work. It is strange - certainly beyond me.


Edited by Benboom (02/07/11 04:16 PM)

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#104858 - 02/07/11 04:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
Benboom Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
If I understand correctly, you can only have one soft synth working at a time, right? Because I thought "Maybe I need to have a different one for each midi channel" but I can't figure out how to do that, either.

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#104859 - 02/07/11 04:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17266
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Correct. In BIAB, you can have one MIDI sound software synth or hardware device. If you would like to work with more than one, you can take your song into RealBand.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#104860 - 02/07/11 04:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7212
If the MS wavtable synth works then the soft synths should work. Do you actually own any soft synths?Biab does not come with any for 64bit except the Coyote WT synth.If you have 32 bit system you cabin stall the VSC DXi that comes with BIAB.Multitimbral is a function of the synth.If Lounge Lizard is all you have it has to be set there.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
http://wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.html

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#104861 - 02/07/11 04:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: silvertones]
Muzic Trax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4932
Loc: California
It sounds like the DXi you are using may be a non-GM standard synth? You can use Realband the same as Biab when it comes to generating parts. Plus, you can assign a different DX/VST on each track in RB as well.

Open your song from Biab in RB, save it in Biab and open it in RB. It should also load the style you are using Biab. You can generate any Biab part in RB.

Trax

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#104862 - 02/07/11 04:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
MartinB Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 4853
Quote:

I can only get one sound out of the multitimbral soft synths at a time, and yet the MS Wavetable synth seems to work. It is strange - certainly beyond me.



You'd need a GM compatible soft synth. Multitimbral does *not* mean GM compatible, whereas MS Wavetable *is* a GM synth.
_________________________
Martin

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#104863 - 02/07/11 06:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: MartinB]
Benboom Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
The PlugSound Global (06, in this case) is multitimbral and is designed specifically to be a replacement for the cheesy MS Wavetable.

Short clip: "This Plugsound provides a realistic and contemporary world sound library designed to substitute to the cheesy GM players, both software and hardware. The global collection faithfully follows the GM standard for sound classification. The acoustic and electric piano category is first, followed by Pitched Percussions, Organs, Guitars, Basses, Strings, Ensemble Sounds, Brass, Reeds, Pipes… The collection then moves on to Synth Leads, Pads and Composites, followed by Ethnic, Percussive and Sound Effect categories. Volume 6 then offers another 128 presets consisting of light versions of the original 128 GM presets. Finally, 7 GM drum kits are supplied, followed by 7 light versions."

And it works fine in other sequencers. But maybe it just won't work with BIAB, and Lounge Lizard won't work with it either? Does anybody here use a soft synth instead of the MS Wavetable? Which one?

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#104864 - 02/07/11 06:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18804
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Yes, many multitimbral synths work here on PGMusic products.

VSC DXi, Coyote Forte, Coyote WT, Synthfont, SFZ, Sampletank, and a bunch of others.

The synth in your previous post appears to need some kind of patch maps for multitimbral use.
What operating system are you using? 32 bit or 64 bit?

If 32 bit, try VSC DXi and/or VSTi (included), if 64 bit, there is a free trial of Coyote Forte included on your PGMusic product, give that a try so we know if there is is something 'wrong' with the system, or it's just a matter of setting those other synths up correctly.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#104865 - 02/07/11 07:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: rharv]
Benboom Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
Hm...Sampletank is one of the ones that doesn't work here. I can get it to load sounds but it never plays them back in BIAB, or even in its own window (using its keyboard) in the selection window when I load it. It works fine in Reaper, though. I am using Windows 7, 64 bit. And I noticed that even after I load it once, it doesn't stay in the list of available soft synths.

I will try the suggestion about RealBand - I haven't used that at all yet.

Thanks for the suggestions.

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#104866 - 02/07/11 08:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
Benboom Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
Results in RealBand are hilarious - they almost sound like they are playing in different time signatures. I think maybe it's a latency issue; I didn't set it up for ASIO drivers yet. I hope that's it, anyway. But I was able to use the Plugsound plugin to get a bass going without everything else playing bass notes, anyway. But RealBand seems so limited compared to BIAB in many ways because I don't know my way around (I hope that's why)...and yet another program to start learning. Yeesh.

EDIT: It wasn't the drivers. The bass is in a different world rhythmically.


Edited by Benboom (02/07/11 08:18 PM)

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#104867 - 02/07/11 09:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
Muzic Trax Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4932
Loc: California
You may need to utilize the re-channel midi data feature in RB when dealing with generating midi parts. I believe they assign channel 0 by default?

Edit (top of RB)-(Then select)Re-channel Midi data and select the start/end measure numbers so the channel data is entered at the beginning of your song. It may be from/thru, I don't have RB open at the moment. (Make sure you have a midi track selected/hi-lited first).

You assign each DXi/VST(i) at the beginning of EACH track in RB as well. There should be a little arrow in the first box to assign your instrument and FX chain for that track. Click the arrow and a box should pop up to assign those things there.

You can assign a separate DXi/VSTi for each track in RB. You can only assign a single one in Biab.

Once you have messed with how RB sets up each instrument and fx a few times, it begins to make sense, lol.

Some people get thrown with midi channel #'s vs track #'s as well. I always re-channel each midi track so I don't have two instruments playing on the same channel etc . . .

Trax


Edited by Muzic Trax (02/07/11 09:47 PM)

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#104868 - 02/08/11 05:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Muzic Trax]
Benboom Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
Well, the Coyote demo seems to work; assigned parts play correctly in BIAB. I was hoping that my existing plugins would work; it's a financial death of a thousand cuts, this stuff. I guess I have 30 days of grace so I should be glad, though.

Thanks for all the replies. It appears that BIAB will only coexist with certain soft synths.

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#104869 - 02/08/11 08:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
MartinB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 4853
Quote:

It appears that BIAB will only coexist with certain soft synths.



Sounds like a case for PG Music Support - potentially via some TeamViewer session. Keep us posted.
_________________________
Martin

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#104870 - 02/08/11 12:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: All midi voices have the same patch [Re: Benboom]
Andrew - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3772
Loc: Victoria, BC
Hello Benboom,

Quote:

The PlugSound Global (06, in this case) is multitimbral and is designed specifically to be a replacement for the cheesy MS Wavetable.

Short clip: "This Plugsound provides a realistic and contemporary world sound library designed to substitute to the cheesy GM players, both software and hardware. The global collection faithfully follows the GM standard for sound classification. The acoustic and electric piano category is first, followed by Pitched Percussions, Organs, Guitars, Basses, Strings, Ensemble Sounds, Brass, Reeds, Pipes… The collection then moves on to Synth Leads, Pads and Composites, followed by Ethnic, Percussive and Sound Effect categories. Volume 6 then offers another 128 presets consisting of light versions of the original 128 GM presets. Finally, 7 GM drum kits are supplied, followed by 7 light versions."

And it works fine in other sequencers. But maybe it just won't work with BIAB, and Lounge Lizard won't work with it either? Does anybody here use a soft synth instead of the MS Wavetable? Which one?




Does PlugSound Global respond to patch changes? (program change messages). If not, then I suppose you'll hear whatever the default patch is (piano) unless you manually set up the patches yourself. In SampleTank for example, you need to choose the patches manually for each of the channels in the SampleTank interface.

I'm not familiar with how PlugSound works. I suspect you will be able to get it working, but it will require a little extra work to set your patches. If the samples are large and take a long time to load, there is documentation in the "C:\bb\BandStand Technical Notes" folder that may help you.

Let us know what you find.
_________________________
Andrew
PG Music Inc.

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