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#105485 - 02/13/11 05:38 AM [RealBand] real tracks not in sync
pikeyh Offline
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 86
Loc: south wales UK
Hi Guys, Does anyone here find that they need to audio quantise some of the tracks to get them locked in and tight with the drums (usually 8th note type patterns) , this is especially true i find with the bass and some of the guitars, i may be overlooking something here, but i know that when i export various tracks (bass especially) they need to be audio quantised, i use audiosnap for this (sonar) but it does not always sound fantastic, if anybody is doing the same it would be great to hear how you combat this, if nobody is having this problem tell me what i am doing wrong please, i am not saying they are always out but most songs i do i have to quantise. to see this just zoom out on the timeline and look where the bass notes fall(not quite there) or at least on my screen. thanks Ade

forgot to say this is with realband 2011 latest build , pc--vista quadcore q6600, 4 gig ram, 24bit 44.1 setting inside realband.


Edited by pikeyh (02/13/11 06:26 AM)
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#105486 - 02/13/11 07:44 AM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: pikeyh]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
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Never a problem here. With that said there could be some RTs that are weird. Which ones give you an issue. I'll give those a try.
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#105487 - 02/13/11 08:30 AM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: pikeyh]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
You may want to check out this recent thread from the BiaB forum, Sandra noticed some timing probs with her Gypsy Jazz realtracks and then Peter Gannon tells how one can tweak the timing of realtracks within BiaB.

I'm just not sure if the same thing can be done from within RealBand or not at this point.

Click here to jump to thread about Realtrack timing.


--Mac
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#105488 - 02/13/11 09:34 AM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: Mac]
pikeyh Offline
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 86
Loc: south wales UK
Thanks for the replies guys(hey that rhymes-im a poet and i dont know it) well the track i am working on at the moment is using a metal ev 120 bass (thats just about usable) but the one thats giving me grief is the brit invasion 140 i am using it with rock hard modern2 drums, if that bass and drums sound locked to anybody else i am obviously doing something wrong, especially on a chorus (b part marker)----Thanks mac but that wont work for me i dont think as i am using real band.Ade. sorry forgot to say tempo of my song is 136


Edited by pikeyh (02/13/11 09:35 AM)
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#105489 - 02/13/11 10:16 AM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: pikeyh]
Mac Offline
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Well, sometimes the choice of certain realtracks don't work well together, a subjective thing as well, I just try substituting another Realtrack for one or the other, or substitute another RealDrum, etc. until I get something that does. I typically don't spend a lot of time trying to saddle a dead horse when working with this wonderful program, instead I go looking for what does work, simply because of what RealTracks are and how they are designed to work for us. If you must have the specific, such is better done using Sequencing and Recording techniques as versus the instant accompaniment that BiaB offers. IMO. I'm always keeping the ears and eyes pealed for that Serendippity moment as well - finding something that may be different from the target, but works well always gets my juices flowing at a faster level.

They are what they are. Those intent on trying to make the Realdigeredoo work and play well with the Realvuvuzela - when the two don't match well - may well be attempting to do someting that isn't going to work out as planned, or at least take a long time in the editing to not work out as well as planned. IMHO


Have fun,


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#105490 - 02/13/11 12:36 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
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I just substituted those two RTs in one of my songs that is at 150 and although I don't care for the bass line of the brit invasion the drums and bass are right on time wise.
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#105491 - 02/13/11 02:07 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: silvertones]
pikeyh Offline
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 86
Loc: south wales UK
Mhmmm strange indeed, and if you look at the timeline (zoomed in) they are bang on yes?
I dont want to get all anal over this but a lot of the bass grooves and some of the guitars just dont seem tight enough with the beats,(better than with previous version though) must just be me then,or maybe i am expecting too much. thanks for trying this anyways Silvertones. i will experiment more!!!. Ade.
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INTEL I7 16GIG RAM WINDOWS-7 MIDAS VENICE F24 PRESONUS STUDIOLIVE 16 UAD 2 DYNAUDIO BM5A BEYER/880 PRO TC HELICON VOICEWORKS PLUS
BAND IN A BOX/REAL BAND PRESONUS STUDIO 1 V2.65 SOFTWARE,SOFTWARE,SOFTWARE..

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#105492 - 02/13/11 03:28 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: pikeyh]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7235
Quote:

Mhmmm strange indeed, and if you look at the timeline (zoomed in) they are bang on yes?
I dont want to get all anal over this but a lot of the bass grooves and some of the guitars just dont seem tight enough with the beats,(better than with previous version though) must just be me then,or maybe i am expecting too much. thanks for trying this anyways Silvertones. i will experiment more!!!. Ade.



No didn't say they looked like they were right on the beat.I said they sound right on. I'm a bass player. 45years.Nothing else.I wouldn't want to be right on the beat all the time. Sometimes you want to be ahead sometimes behind sometimes right on. That particular one is a shade behind and sounds good to me.Music is and aural experience so stop looking and obsessing at the visual.
PS I also use a very strong kick drum right on the beat and it really ties things.Still sounds fine without the kick though.Just no as strong.
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John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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#105493 - 02/13/11 03:37 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: silvertones]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
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Now if I use it on a slower tune at abt 11o bpm it does start to stick out. I would expect that though. A bass part recorded at a specific tempo played either ahead or behind the beat is going to start sounding weird as the tempo varies.Stuff recored right on the beat won't.
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John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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#105494 - 02/13/11 04:30 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: silvertones]
pikeyh Offline
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 86
Loc: south wales UK
Ok thanks for your words of wisdom. your a good man Ade.
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#105495 - 02/14/11 01:27 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: pikeyh]
pdoth Offline
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Registered: 03/13/08
Posts: 113
Loc: S.E.UK
Bit of a long shot.......... but........ I was having problems due to the bit rate and sample rate.

Strange things happen going from 16bit 44100khz to 24bit 481000khz (or vis versa)

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#105496 - 02/14/11 01:52 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: pdoth]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7235
Sample rate may affect things if the card is locked but bit rate shouldn't.
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#105497 - 02/15/11 08:34 AM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: pdoth]
Mac Offline
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

Bit of a long shot.......... but........ I was having problems due to the bit rate and sample rate.

Strange things happen going from 16bit 44100khz to 24bit 481000khz (or vis versa)




Well, I think this may just be the problem.

BiaB works ONLY at 16/44.1KHz.

Attempts to use it when the soundcard's control panel has been set and locked to 48KHz rate will result in the 44.1KHz soundfiles inside BiaB (the real instrument files) to play at a different speed than designed, as well as slightly off-key for the melodic instruments.

Ideally you would want to set your soundcard's controls to "unlocked" or whatever command your mfr uses that allows any host program such as BiaB to take control of those settings when it opens, this makes the proper selection automatic in nature. BTW this problem is usually encountered when using ASIO drivers.

If you cannot unlock the bitrate settings in your soundcard such that they can be set by the host programs, then you would have to make sure that your soundcard is set to 16/44.1 before opening BiaB and all should be in tune and in sync.

Use of 24/44.1 does ot provide any gain in BiaB as it will still only have 16 bits of depth available from the soundfiles anyway, although the 24 bit setting in the soundcard may appear to work just as well, the remaining bits ove 16 will just be filled with needless zeros.


--Mac
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#105498 - 02/15/11 08:51 AM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7235
He's using 44.1 so things should stay in sync. As I mentioned I think he's looking at the wav form up against the time line and is being distracted by this. The person that recorded this might have used a little artistic license to play a little behind the beat. If I slow things down it's much more noticeable.
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John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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#105499 - 02/15/11 09:00 AM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: silvertones]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7235
I just tried this again and at tempo sounds fine to me. I did try sliding the track so as to line him up right on the beat.Sorry to say this old Bass player don't hear any difference however if I slow the tracks down to 100 BPM it still sounds fine. When played behind the beat and slowed down it doesn't.
Just highlight the part, hold down CTRL and drag it a little. Make sure the "SNAP" is not activated.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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#105500 - 02/18/11 05:34 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: silvertones]
pikeyh Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 86
Loc: south wales UK
Sorry for the late reply guys, but i have trying to get these real bass tracks to line up Ha Ha !! No i understand completely what you are saying Silvertones, but i am not looking to "line up" the bass notes just to get the groove tight and not sounding slightly sloppy, Been a gigging muso for more than 30 years so i can say this with a bit of thought behind it, Main instrument is Guitar but been playing bass as well for about 25 of them, usually record my own but have been using the program lately as i have been found to have some sort of condition where my hands are all swollen and cant really play quick enough, old age eh!! but as i say thanks for the comments, all taken on board, this is a great forum that has some real pro's on it, but i cant be the only one that notices some timing discrepancies and occasional wrong chords with some of the Realtracks, just my two cents worth. Pikey h. forgot to say again the reason i use 24/44.1 is only for when i export the tracks for further editing/ adding of tracks in Sonar or Studio one as i always use 24 bit in these for the added headroom available.


Edited by pikeyh (02/18/11 05:44 PM)
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#105501 - 02/18/11 06:01 PM [RealBand] Re: real tracks not in sync [Re: pikeyh]
Mac Offline
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Make sure that you have visited the Support page and found, downloaded and installed all updates for your BiaB, RB and RealTracks versions.


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