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#112636 - 05/04/11 09:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: LT]
redguitars Offline
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Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
If you're going to use them at loud practice volumes, meaning rather loud, maybe small PA speakers and a small power amp.
Wayne,
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#112637 - 05/04/11 10:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: redguitars]
flatfoot Offline
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Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 2180
Loc: Sacramento CA
.
I am with Mac on recommending the Logitech satellite systems. I have one in every room of the house. Two in my studio. One dedicated set on my keyboard. I use them for gigs. The prices mentioned in the posts above are terrific bang for the buck.

A nice extra benefit is that these are easy to hide. I think its fun to have my freinds visit and play music for them, real loud and real good. They are baffled as to where the sound is coming from.


Edited by flatfoot (05/04/11 11:15 AM)
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#112638 - 05/04/11 11:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: flatfoot]
redguitars Offline
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Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
The Logitech systems are great.
After losing all my gear in a flood 4 years ago when I bought our first new PC I got a 2.1 Logitech Speaker system. I was floored. They Sounded better than the big stereo I lost. Not as loud, but louder than I needed. My biggest surprise was the Sub. I never had bass like that before.

We soon got two more 2.1 sets. One for another PC and one for Mp3 player and an old TV we don't use anymore.
(We got rid of cable 5 years ago. We just use Netflix, the Intenet and our PCs)
Wayne,
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#112639 - 05/04/11 11:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: redguitars]
redguitars Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
Can anyone recommend a really great 2.1 Logitech Speaker system. Ours are a bit old and out of date.
I'd really like to upgrade. More power and great sound I'm sure they are better now. I's like to stick with Logitech.
I heard a friends Altec System and was not impressed. They weren't cheap either.
Wayne,

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#112640 - 05/04/11 11:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: redguitars]
flatfoot Offline
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Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 2180
Loc: Sacramento CA
They're all great. Search the internet for model and price.
_________________________
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Got some tunes on You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/flatfoot50
.
My BiaB lesson site:
http://jdwolfe0.wixsite.com/learnbiab

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#112641 - 05/04/11 05:09 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: LT]
bluzkeez1 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 57
I have a pair of the original Samson Resolv 65a's I don't think they are made any longer but you might check some of the on line stores or Ebay. Very happy with mine for keys and BIAB. I also have a pair of Mackie MR 5's. A lot of sound come out of the Mackies as well. Both powered monitors. Reolv 65a are 6 inch speakers ported in front. The Mackies are 5 in ported in back

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#112642 - 05/07/11 03:16 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: LT]
tommohawk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Sussex, U.K.
A few thoughts.

Just with regards to general design - thanks for the explanation of non-directional bass - makes the point very well.

But the point I was trying to make is that with a 2.1 system either the low frequency unit handles some of the mid range, in which case that's mono, or it only handles the very low frequencies which leaves the tweeter having to deal with everything else.

I guess this begs a rather more basic question, ie with a conventional two unit cabinet ie woofer and tweeter, what is actually doing what? I realise the crossovers distribute the frequencies to the appropriate unit, but I wonder if whether there is any blending, of if the units handle only above or below the crossover frequency? You'd think it would sound unnatural if it was completely separated at the xover frequency - no?

From an intuitive standpoint tweeters look pretty tiny - can they really dish ut the mid-range? Way back in the old days, I seem to remember having a mid-range speaker in there too.

Re the Klipsch units they look pretty good as you say - might be tempted if going the 2.1 route. One small problem though - here in the UK the only thing we have thats bigger than the US version is volts. I dont think the Klipsch is made in 240v version. But theres plenty others similar.

Have been having a bit of a rethink about the whole thing - upshot is:

1. I don't like playing with 'phones - probably natural if you're used to a studio, and I may have to if recording tracks - but for general playing its not my favourite.

2. I need to get a new sound system anyhow thats compact to plug my PC/laptop into - ideally a one box system ie active speaker suits me best. Do they really only make these as near field versions?

3. I take the point about directioanlity and head height. However in practice my speakers are raised to avoid reflections off the desk. So they are about 30 cms above my head when at the desk, and 30 cms below when I stand to play sax. If I cant get a non-nearfield monitor, I'm inclined to get a nearfield version, and mount the speakers on pivoted brackets so I can adjust the angles to suit - sound OK?

4. Alternatively get a 2.1 system, but I guess I'm a bit picky about losing sound quality.

Any more thoughts?

Cheers, Tommo

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#112643 - 05/07/11 05:03 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: TerryB]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6463
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

This might be another option for you. I played a keyboard through one of these at GC the other day and the sound was awsome. Can also serve as a small powered sound system. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Roland-CM-30-Cube-Monitor-104017108-i1167688.gc

Terry




Terry,

I have been using this unit as a monitor for years, very durable good quality sound and a little work horse to boot.

Later,
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#112644 - 05/07/11 05:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: Danny C.]
tommohawk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Sussex, U.K.
Had a look at the Roland Cubes - in the pic they look massive - but looking at the specs they are pretty compact. And have grills too - they look great for small stage work.

Probably a bit much for small office - dont really need all the inputs - and need stereo. But worth bearing in mind.

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#112645 - 05/07/11 05:50 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: tommohawk]
Happy Birthday Oren Fisher Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 1126
Loc: Victoria, BC Canada
Quote:


... the point I was trying to make is that with a 2.1 system either the low frequency unit handles some of the mid range, in which case that's mono, or it only handles the very low frequencies which leaves the tweeter having to deal with everything else.
From an intuitive standpoint tweeters look pretty tiny - can they really dish ut the mid-range? Way back in the old days, I seem to remember having a mid-range speaker in there too.
...Alternatively get a 2.1 system, but I guess I'm a bit picky about losing sound quality.






After a lot of trial and error, research, and advice from folks here at PG, my choice was easy.
If you want premium sound, go with a subwoofer and satellites.

If you want maximum flexibility, go with a subwoofer and satellites. Adjusting the position of the speakers relative to each other, relative to the room, and relative to the listener gives you optimum control of your sound.

If you want excellent audio performance in both near-field applications, and with room-filling sound, go with a subwoofer and satellites

If you want maximum audio performance per unit of cost, go with a subwoofer and satellites.

I use Cambridge SoundWorks - the ones produced before the name was purchased by Creative Labs. As with Logitech 2.1 systems, all the models from Cambridge SoundWorks sound spectacular, with the larger systems simply able to supply quality audio at higher levels.

Working with a 2.1 system requires some learning, some experimentation with placement, and most of all - a willingness to let go of pre-conceptions regarding how a speaker system should look.
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Oren.
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#112646 - 05/08/11 01:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: Oren Fisher]
lkmuller Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/11/00
Posts: 1144
Loc: Aiea, HI, USA
I've been using the same pair of Tannoy Reveal Active monitors for ten years and they still kick butt. Been jamming with David Sanborn tracks all afternoon and they were loud and clear enough for me to play my 335 pretty wide open. Tannoy monitors, Mackie mixer.


Edited by lkmuller (05/08/11 01:17 AM)
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#112647 - 05/08/11 09:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: tommohawk]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

But the point I was trying to make is that with a 2.1 system either the low frequency unit handles some of the mid range, in which case that's mono, or it only handles the very low frequencies which leaves the tweeter having to deal with everything else.




The two speakers are not just tweeters, they are designed to be capable of handling the frequency range necessary for full 20Hz-20KHz sound reproduction. That would be inclusive of what we term Low-Mids on up. Not a problem.

Quote:

I guess this begs a rather more basic question, ie with a conventional two unit cabinet ie woofer and tweeter, what is actually doing what? I realise the crossovers distribute the frequencies to the appropriate unit, but I wonder if whether there is any blending, of if the units handle only above or below the crossover frequency? You'd think it would sound unnatural if it was completely separated at the xover frequency - no?




No. Actually, with use of electronic active crossovers, with separated amplifiers, it is possible to knife edge the regions with virtually no overlap in frequencies - and it can sound very good indeed.

However, when using passive crossover circuits, which share the same power amp, there is likely to be a certain amount of overlap anyway, not much, and a good designer will incorporate a 6dB per octave rolloff into the filtering, which has a very musical quality to it. Again, not a concern here at all.

Quote:

From an intuitive standpoint tweeters look pretty tiny - can they really dish ut the mid-range? Way back in the old days, I seem to remember having a mid-range speaker in there too.




Again, those are not tweeters. Some designs use two drivers, a midrange speaker along with a tiny tweeter, other designs use a single drive that has the capability of covering the entire needed frequency range. Neither is by itself superior to the other, if designed properly, matter of fact, the single driver designs are typically a bit BETTER sounding than the older multiple driver designs. Less overlap, but more importantly, the single driver design totally eliminates crossover distortion and phasing problems.

Quote:

1. I don't like playing with 'phones - probably natural if you're used to a studio, and I may have to if recording tracks - but for general playing its not my favourite.




Well, I've got years of studio experience under the belt at this point and I, too, prefer the use of speakers over headphones. For one thing, the headphones give me a false spatial recreation that is bothersome. Cellos appearing to be coming out of my collarbone, stuff like that. *grin*

Quote:

2. I need to get a new sound system anyhow thats compact to plug my PC/laptop into - ideally a one box system ie active speaker suits me best. Do they really only make these as near field versions?




With my laptop out on the road, I use a set of Altec Lansing BX1220 speakers. Two little cylinders, powered from the USB port of the laptop, these little things can move a surprising amount of air and sound very good indeed. Not nearfield monitors, but a powerful enough design that I can easily play my Trumpet along with BiaB if needed and I can hear the music well.

Quote:

3. I take the point about directioanlity and head height. However in practice my speakers are raised to avoid reflections off the desk. So they are about 30 cms above my head when at the desk, and 30 cms below when I stand to play sax. If I cant get a non-nearfield monitor, I'm inclined to get a nearfield version, and mount the speakers on pivoted brackets so I can adjust the angles to suit - sound OK?




If you are not recording and mixing, the use of nearfields is not necessary. In the case of practice with an instrument like the Tenor Sax, which can develop up to about 7W of its own audio power, I'd be more concerned with siply moving air in the room than with the things that make nearfield monitors special. On top of that, I would be concerned with the use of nearfields and higher SPL's (Sound Pressure Levels) to a certain extent. Most could likely handle the task, most would cost a lot more money than what you stated the real use of these speakers would be. The Altec Lansings mentioned above cost less than $20US and are an outstanding value, don't let the price fool you. They are not nearfields. But they could be used as such in a pinch. I have.

Quote:

4. Alternatively get a 2.1 system, but I guess I'm a bit picky about losing sound quality.

Any more thoughts?

Cheers, Tommo




This is really a situation where the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in quite quickly.

The best thing to do is AUDITION speakers with the music content that you intend to play through them. You could take your laptop and a suitable connector along with you to do such. I've already done the search for the portable laptop speaker and narrowed it down to the BX1220's and love 'em as portable USB powered speakers that can do the task well and still be portable.

There are plenty of good offerings to be found today, don't limit yourself to just nearfields for recording purposes here, since your stated job is not to do mixes but to have good sound to play along with at home.


--Mac
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#112648 - 05/08/11 02:35 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: Mac]
tommohawk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Sussex, U.K.
Hey Mac - thanks for that detailed response. Lots to think about.

Oren - I only listened to a couple of 2.1 systems but was amazed at the sound quality. Maybe thats the way to go for me.

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#112649 - 05/09/11 11:07 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: tommohawk]
Shockwave199 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 376
Loc: Long Island, NY
These-

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-B2031A-LIST

These fit your bill. Not enough room? Make the room for them. You want an 8" monitor, playing sax into them. These monitors are fantastic general listening monitors. You can also mix on them- perfectly fine for your skill level as you've explained it. They're powered- just plug them in. I still have a pair in my studio. Listening to music on them is amazing- seriously. You're not gonna find a more resonably price 8" monitors and they fit your needs. People crap all over these monitors but if a slim budget rules- they will not disappoint for your needs. Good luck.

Btw- pick up a pair of mopads with them too, if you can afford it.

Dan
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#112650 - 05/10/11 10:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: Shockwave199]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3899
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
I didn't mention the Behringers earlier because of cost, but I haven't been keeping track of the discussion. Here's a STRONG second to the TRUTH B2031A.

I have had a pair for about 4 years, mounted on 40-inch pedestals. They offer tremendous, clean power. They won't produce gut-thumping bass at high levels--for that you need the sub--but for mixing and listening at the levels most of us are able to use they are perfect.

I note that a couple of sellers on ebay are showing a "buy it now" price of around $325, which is about what I paid for them in 2007. I found that they favorably compared to speakers three times their price. (This one is an authorized dealer, which means that the warranty is good.)

R.
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#112651 - 05/10/11 10:35 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: Ryszard]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
One should compare SPL figures and NOT speaker cone diameters as the smaller diameter speakers often make up the difference with use of higher efficiency designs. This means that there could be a 4" cone that can move more air than an 8" cone. Bass and low mid response is not a function of speaker diameter when realistic dimensions are considered, that is a function of the baffle design for either size, actually. The baffle is the box.


--Mac
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#112652 - 05/10/11 04:45 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: LT]
ZeroZero Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 1632
Loc: Bynar
I alos am a sax player. I use Tannoy Reveals. My studio is a surround studio and I also have a Tannoy Subwoofer which is a bit of a beast. The Reveals work well with my mixing and also with sax. Most of the time I have the sub turned off as the Reveals give plenty.
My Amp is a Sony str 08780 which has clarity and beef. The reveals have quite a reputation as nearfield monitors here. After using them for years I can see why. I am very happy with them.

HOT TIP

Tip this amp (above), and a lot of very high quality surround amps are going VERY cheap on Ebay because the former generation of top class video/surround amps (cinema system amps) dont do High definition video therefore cant be sold for their orginal purpose with todays HD format. This doesnt bother me at all as all I am interested in is the music.

I picked my amp up for £40 UK and it does stereo too. Its not all about good quality speakers a good amp adds guts to the sound, and gived depth to the sound stage.
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#112653 - 05/12/11 04:24 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: ZeroZero]
tommohawk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Sussex, U.K.
Well wondered about the Behringers, but like someone said they do get some poor reviews.

Going back to the 2.1 idea, I listened to some Aego M's last night - these generally get rave reviews. BUT I found the mid-range very poor. It may not have been a great trial, because it wasnt on my system so I dont know the sound card, or even the sound source - mostly MP3s I tink with a decent bit rate. Generally the sound quality is good, volume is plenty, but I found vocals, esp spoken vocals very lacking.

With this set up the sub was set in the corner of the room, which apparantly is the way to do it. but maybe this doesnt help for vocals.

Io come back to the point I made before - on the Aego system you hear almost no vocal elements on the sub, which leaves the satellite trying to cope with the majority of the vocals - and not surprisingly it sounds (to me) very shallow.

I realise it isnt all about voice, but I've always found that's the best test for a speaker.

Tannoy reveals - yes I wondered bout those too - but again I'm advised I dont want a near field set up for my purposes. Take the point about the amp quality too

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#112654 - 05/12/11 07:56 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: tommohawk]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18759
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/54...eluxe_130W.html

$354 probably find them even cheaper, but includes free shipping (and they are heavy).

Read the reviews there and see what settings they are being used in; large rooms, nearfields, DJ, etc. and almost every one is five star.

They sound very good at low levels, (not lacking in any drive) so they work well for nearfields.
They also have quite a bit of power.
They were larger than I was expecting, if that's a factor.

I've spent WAY more on other monitors in my life and not gotten as nice of a sound. Actually every other system I have got an upgrade when these went to the main recording system room, and the others all moved down a notch.
Yeah, I really like mine.


Edited by rharv (05/12/11 08:10 PM)
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#112655 - 05/13/11 04:04 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: rharv]
tommohawk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Sussex, U.K.
Yes I thought BX8 looked like a good bet. Missed a pair on ebay just the other day. I have space, so thats not really a problem. Even the smaller Bx5 or 5a looks OK too.

Back to the 2.1 idea - it looks like lots of conventional speakers do a very good job or representing vocals and other midrange with a large woofer, and a smaller unit - tweeter or whatever - without any mid-range unit.

Voice frequencies range from about 100Hz - 1kHz, and the Aego M 2.1 sub serves the 50Hz - 250Hz range. So it seems likely that if the sub is places way to one side th vocals will sound unnatural. Whatever the theory, when you listen to real vocals, the sound all comes from one source! I reckon I'd do better with the bass turned down, and the sub centrally placed.

I found quite a few threads out there re this subject - but everyones talking about kit costing thousands of £/$. So I'm probably just expecting too much bang for my buck (mid range bang, of course)

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