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#112631 - 04/29/11 12:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: TerryB]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7260
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Musician's Friend claims they are blowing out lots of different monitors: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/nav...S1&ZYXSEM=0

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#112632 - 05/02/11 05:26 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: rockstar_not]
tommohawk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Sussex, U.K.
Thanks for all the useful comment - sorry bit slow to respond.

5.1 probably a bit complex for my needs, but I wondered about a 2.1 system.

Somehow cant help but want my woofers separate - surely these are dealing with some of the mid-range that really wants to be split?

That said, I listened to my son's HK soundsticks - and the sound quality is really very good. Only 20W RMS for bass and 20 for treble, so not really enough - but gives the idea of what a 2.1 can do.

Thanks for the links - in fact I'm UK based so need to source here - but gave me some leads.

I'm looking at some M-Audio BX5a's which should do it. Will let you knw how I get on.

cheers Tommo

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#112633 - 05/03/11 09:47 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: tommohawk]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

Somehow cant help but want my woofers separate - surely these are dealing with some of the mid-range that really wants to be split?




No.

Subwoofer deals with only the bass region.

Takes advantage of the fact that the human ear cannot detect directionality below a certain frequency.

Usually works a bit better actually, as the subwoofer is designed to handle the larger excursions required for the bass notes plus does not have to be trying to produce higher freqs such as the mids and also typically the subwoofer will have its own power amp. Many use dual voice coil technology such that the lows from both channels appear at the subwoofer cone.


--Mac
_________________________
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#112634 - 05/03/11 10:29 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: Mac]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7260
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Somehow cant help but want my woofers separate - surely these are dealing with some of the mid-range that really wants to be split?




No.

Subwoofer deals with only the bass region.

Takes advantage of the fact that the human ear cannot detect directionality below a certain frequency.

Usually works a bit better actually, as the subwoofer is designed to handle the larger excursions required for the bass notes plus does not have to be trying to produce higher freqs such as the mids and also typically the subwoofer will have its own power amp. Many use dual voice coil technology such that the lows from both channels appear at the subwoofer cone.


--Mac




There's a reason why subwoofers work, and why humans can only detect directionality below a certain frequency and it's due to the simple physics of the wavelength of these frequencies.

One of the biggest directional cues our hearing system has is what's called the inter-aural time or phase difference. If you look at the wavelength of a 200 Hz wave, it's quite long, 67.8 inches at sea level, to be exact. That's 67.8 inches for the whole sine-wave. The distance between your ear-drums is only about 6 inches. So at any one time for a 200 Hz wave, your ears are experiencing the difference in time of only about 1/10 of the entire wavelength; undetectable. This percentage in time or phase difference gets smaller as the frequency gets lower. For a 100 Hz wave, it's 1/20th of the length along the 136 inch wave. For a 50 Hz wave, the phase difference is only about 2% of the entire length of the wave.

These very long wavelengths are also the reason that you should test the low frequency response of your speakers in the room. With almost any home setup, you will set up standing waves in the room, which will unnaturally color your overall low frequency listening experience.

I still believe that your best solution for practicing sax with your backing tracks is with headphones. Trying to use nearfield monitors as a small PA system; which is what you are trying to do; is not the intended purpose for nearfield monitoring systems.

Most of those nearfield monitors will not have the proper dispersion for the midrange and tweeters to give you an optimum listening position for sax practicing (assuming you stand) as well as sitting (assuming this is what you do while mixing). If the speakers are actually designed well as nearfields, you'll notice a rather large difference in mid/high frequency response depending on your ear height relative to the tweeter height.

See if you can get a store to let you take a set of these home and try this out yourself. Set the monitors so that the tweeters are at ear height for sitting. Then alternatively stand up and sit down while a track is playing. You'll see what I mean.

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#112635 - 05/03/11 05:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: tommohawk]
LT Offline
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Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 124
This is a great thread. Very helpful for me also.

I am a sax player also (although I'm playing more alto than tenor at the moment) and have similar needs to yours. I had/have been thinking about monitors, but given the limited amount of mixing that I would do (really just related to recording myself) compared to the amount of time I use the speakers for playing backing tracks for practicing and for listening to music for pleasure and/or transcribing, I decided that I will probably just get a decent set of headphones (for tracking when recording and for mixing, since I am trying to get decent but not pro mixes) and continue to use my current speakers. So, what are the speakers?

I have a set of these for the computer

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Klipsch+-+Pr...&st=Klipsch Computer Speakers&cp=1&lp=1

They aren't audiophile quality, but they get plenty loud, are small and sound pretty darn good for a set of computer speakers.

I also have a stereo in the room where I practice with an old receiver, a pair of ADS floor standing speakers and a CD player/changer. It also works great for these purposes, but to be honest, I usually just use the computer and attached speakers. I may move the stereo out of the room to give myself more space.

Good luck on the hunt. I'm interested to hear what you decide.

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#112636 - 05/04/11 09:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: LT]
redguitars Offline
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Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
If you're going to use them at loud practice volumes, meaning rather loud, maybe small PA speakers and a small power amp.
Wayne,
_________________________
"My Music Page"

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#112637 - 05/04/11 10:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: redguitars]
flatfoot Offline
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Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 2177
Loc: Sacramento CA
.
I am with Mac on recommending the Logitech satellite systems. I have one in every room of the house. Two in my studio. One dedicated set on my keyboard. I use them for gigs. The prices mentioned in the posts above are terrific bang for the buck.

A nice extra benefit is that these are easy to hide. I think its fun to have my freinds visit and play music for them, real loud and real good. They are baffled as to where the sound is coming from.


Edited by flatfoot (05/04/11 11:15 AM)
_________________________
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#112638 - 05/04/11 11:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: flatfoot]
redguitars Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
The Logitech systems are great.
After losing all my gear in a flood 4 years ago when I bought our first new PC I got a 2.1 Logitech Speaker system. I was floored. They Sounded better than the big stereo I lost. Not as loud, but louder than I needed. My biggest surprise was the Sub. I never had bass like that before.

We soon got two more 2.1 sets. One for another PC and one for Mp3 player and an old TV we don't use anymore.
(We got rid of cable 5 years ago. We just use Netflix, the Intenet and our PCs)
Wayne,
_________________________
"My Music Page"

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#112639 - 05/04/11 11:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: redguitars]
redguitars Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
Can anyone recommend a really great 2.1 Logitech Speaker system. Ours are a bit old and out of date.
I'd really like to upgrade. More power and great sound I'm sure they are better now. I's like to stick with Logitech.
I heard a friends Altec System and was not impressed. They weren't cheap either.
Wayne,

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#112640 - 05/04/11 11:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: redguitars]
flatfoot Offline
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Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 2177
Loc: Sacramento CA
They're all great. Search the internet for model and price.
_________________________
Flatfoot sez: Call me when 'Talent-in-a-Box' is ready to ship! -- [8{>

Got some tunes on You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/flatfoot50
.
My BiaB lesson site:
http://jdwolfe0.wixsite.com/learnbiab

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#112641 - 05/04/11 05:09 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: LT]
bluzkeez1 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 57
I have a pair of the original Samson Resolv 65a's I don't think they are made any longer but you might check some of the on line stores or Ebay. Very happy with mine for keys and BIAB. I also have a pair of Mackie MR 5's. A lot of sound come out of the Mackies as well. Both powered monitors. Reolv 65a are 6 inch speakers ported in front. The Mackies are 5 in ported in back

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#112642 - 05/07/11 03:16 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: LT]
tommohawk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Sussex, U.K.
A few thoughts.

Just with regards to general design - thanks for the explanation of non-directional bass - makes the point very well.

But the point I was trying to make is that with a 2.1 system either the low frequency unit handles some of the mid range, in which case that's mono, or it only handles the very low frequencies which leaves the tweeter having to deal with everything else.

I guess this begs a rather more basic question, ie with a conventional two unit cabinet ie woofer and tweeter, what is actually doing what? I realise the crossovers distribute the frequencies to the appropriate unit, but I wonder if whether there is any blending, of if the units handle only above or below the crossover frequency? You'd think it would sound unnatural if it was completely separated at the xover frequency - no?

From an intuitive standpoint tweeters look pretty tiny - can they really dish ut the mid-range? Way back in the old days, I seem to remember having a mid-range speaker in there too.

Re the Klipsch units they look pretty good as you say - might be tempted if going the 2.1 route. One small problem though - here in the UK the only thing we have thats bigger than the US version is volts. I dont think the Klipsch is made in 240v version. But theres plenty others similar.

Have been having a bit of a rethink about the whole thing - upshot is:

1. I don't like playing with 'phones - probably natural if you're used to a studio, and I may have to if recording tracks - but for general playing its not my favourite.

2. I need to get a new sound system anyhow thats compact to plug my PC/laptop into - ideally a one box system ie active speaker suits me best. Do they really only make these as near field versions?

3. I take the point about directioanlity and head height. However in practice my speakers are raised to avoid reflections off the desk. So they are about 30 cms above my head when at the desk, and 30 cms below when I stand to play sax. If I cant get a non-nearfield monitor, I'm inclined to get a nearfield version, and mount the speakers on pivoted brackets so I can adjust the angles to suit - sound OK?

4. Alternatively get a 2.1 system, but I guess I'm a bit picky about losing sound quality.

Any more thoughts?

Cheers, Tommo

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#112643 - 05/07/11 05:03 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: TerryB]
Danny C. Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6459
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

This might be another option for you. I played a keyboard through one of these at GC the other day and the sound was awsome. Can also serve as a small powered sound system. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Roland-CM-30-Cube-Monitor-104017108-i1167688.gc

Terry




Terry,

I have been using this unit as a monitor for years, very durable good quality sound and a little work horse to boot.

Later,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

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#112644 - 05/07/11 05:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: Danny C.]
tommohawk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Sussex, U.K.
Had a look at the Roland Cubes - in the pic they look massive - but looking at the specs they are pretty compact. And have grills too - they look great for small stage work.

Probably a bit much for small office - dont really need all the inputs - and need stereo. But worth bearing in mind.

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#112645 - 05/07/11 05:50 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speakers / Monitors [Re: tommohawk]
Oren Fisher Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 1126
Loc: Victoria, BC Canada
Quote:


... the point I was trying to make is that with a 2.1 system either the low frequency unit handles some of the mid range, in which case that's mono, or it only handles the very low frequencies which leaves the tweeter having to deal with everything else.
From an intuitive standpoint tweeters look pretty tiny - can they really dish ut the mid-range? Way back in the old days, I seem to remember having a mid-range speaker in there too.
...Alternatively get a 2.1 system, but I guess I'm a bit picky about losing sound quality.






After a lot of trial and error, research, and advice from folks here at PG, my choice was easy.
If you want premium sound, go with a subwoofer and satellites.

If you want maximum flexibility, go with a subwoofer and satellites. Adjusting the position of the speakers relative to each other, relative to the room, and relative to the listener gives you optimum control of your sound.

If you want excellent audio performance in both near-field applications, and with room-filling sound, go with a subwoofer and satellites

If you want maximum audio performance per unit of cost, go with a subwoofer and satellites.

I use Cambridge SoundWorks - the ones produced before the name was purchased by Creative Labs. As with Logitech 2.1 systems, all the models from Cambridge SoundWorks sound spectacular, with the larger systems simply able to supply quality audio at higher levels.

Working with a 2.1 system requires some learning, some experimentation with placement, and most of all - a willingness to let go of pre-conceptions regarding how a speaker system should look.
_________________________
just looking for clues...
Oren.
http://www.masteringmatters.com

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