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#114188 - 08/28/11 06:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Pat Marr]
Leon Carpenter Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 204
(I've never found the real time triggering of harmonies by a guitar to be dependable enough for a gig. ) Like I said in the post, it sounds good enough for me. If the guitarist is good enough, the harmonies will follow. A good example is: Amazing Grace. If it is played back thru a good system it does not dissipoint. I have had a few harmonizers before this one including the Digitech Studio which was midi controlable. At that time I was working with a Ketron--Solton MS 100 work station. It was nice to have it follow the left hand. I no longer use either of those. Thanks for the feed back. e.l.c.

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#114189 - 08/28/11 08:10 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Leon Carpenter]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7240
It seems to have the hardest time, and not at all gross, going through chord changes while signing especially going to minor chords. Sometimes not knowing a C from an Am.
I have also noticed that some of this is my fault. At times I'll DL a MIDI to get the basic chord structure. I sometimes miss some of the oddball chords like F6, G6 etc.
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#114190 - 08/29/11 10:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Pat Marr]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7240
Quote:

Quote:

I use 3 soundcards:
1. Audigy 2 ZS Notebook for the band
2. IKM Stealth for bass
3. Internal card to send,as you want, a guitar track to the Harmonizer.

I'm finding the tracking of a guitar part to be less then stellar. In hind site I should have gotten a MIDI unit. The only people that should get one of the guitar controlled rigs are those that play acoustic guitar solo and have no other options.
Don't say it Pat




using the internal card to send a separate signal to the vocal processor is an excellent idea, I would never have thought of that in a million years! In RB it should be possible to send different tracks to different audio outputs... instead of sending the guitar track, how about sending a sustained organ or strings track? The main consideration when triggering with audio is that all of the notes are played simultaneously. Guitars are problematic because the notes are all struck at slightly different times, which confuses the unit.

What I do to trigger chordal harmonies (basically the same thing the new audio units do) is:

1) I created a style that has only one instrument and one pattern (plays a simpl triad for every chord)
2) I named the style VOCALIST
3) when I want to add clean chords for harmonies, I load the VOCALIST style and generate a MIDI track, and it creates simple triads for each chord, without embellishments that tend to change the harmony

4) I send the midi chords to my unit, but if triggering via audio, you can route the soft synth's separate output to the vocal processor.

I bet that will work quite well... maybe even better than straight MIDI, because your unit has a newer faster engine.




This works out much better. I tried it on a couple songs that are more difficult and the harmonies were perfect. Thanks Pat.
I had to alter your Style though and move it to the piano part. There's trouble in them that hills with it on the string part. Not just your style. Seee my other post on the subject.
Oh I also changed it around so the chords always play in root position. My unit likes this best.
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ESI Gigaport HD+
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#114191 - 08/29/11 10:41 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: silvertones]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7577
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

This works out much better. I tried it on a couple songs that are more difficult and the harmonies were perfect. Thanks Pat.




thanks for letting me know it worked as hoped. I like it when one of my wild theories turns out to be true.
;-)

Quote:


I had to alter your Style though and move it to the piano part. There's trouble in them that hills with it on the string part. Not just your style. Seee my other post on the subject.
Oh I also changed it around so the chords always play in root position. My unit likes this best.




good ideas! I think I'll make both of those same changes!

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#114192 - 08/30/11 07:15 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Pat Marr]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
What do you change to get chords in 'root' position?
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#114193 - 08/30/11 07:22 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: John Conley]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7577
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

What do you change to get chords in 'root' position?




I interpreted it to mean that on the staff, you can position the triad in several possible Sequences:

EGC, GCE, CEG etc and I'm thinking John put C as first note on the staff. I'm not sure if that makes a difference to the harmonizer, since it needs to see all 3 notes to identify a chord.

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#114194 - 08/30/11 07:32 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Pat Marr]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7240
I read that for this unit it's best to play chords that are in root position.
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#114195 - 08/30/11 08:17 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: silvertones]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Ok, we don't 'get' each other.

I use the band in a box 'app' where you go in and identify which midi channel you want to export to and it does the work.

I forgot you are using Realband and have to wrap the cords on your own.

I do understand yer root position, and in a pinch to force a walking bass use slash chords, but I've never sat down with the midi on ch 5 and dissected it. Some day when I'm bored.

It sounds like calculus to me thus it's to be avoided like Miss Smith's grade 12 calculus course at TabbaccyHigh.
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#114196 - 08/30/11 08:23 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: John Conley]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5542
Loc: Chicago
You guys do know that when I get my voicelive Touch you are going to have to go through this whole thing again.

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#114197 - 08/30/11 09:31 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: MusicStudent]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7577
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

You guys do know that when I get my voicelive Touch you are going to have to go through this whole thing again.




Dan, you are clearly a very smart guy... I'm sure that you'll be up and running quickly even without help.

But if you hit a snag, There are several people on the forum using similar devices. Somebody will know the answer, and I bet everybody is willing to spend whatever time is necessary to talk through the stuff that is not so well explained in the manual.

Keep us posted!! You should be getting it any time now!

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#114198 - 08/31/11 12:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Pat Marr]
Sundance Offline
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4253
I use the PNOSIMP style for piano chords. Generate a midi piano track in RB and then change the RB style back to the original style. Make midi channel and harmonizer channel match - voila. Easy.
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#114199 - 08/31/11 06:42 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Sundance]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7577
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I use the PNOSIMP style for piano chords. Generate a midi piano track in RB and then change the RB style back to the original style. Make midi channel and harmonizer channel match - voila. Easy.




aha!
I figured there was probably a stock style that would work... (but it took less time to make one than to search for one.)

Thanks for the heads-up, a lot of people will benefit from this tip!

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#114200 - 09/01/11 09:01 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Pat Marr]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5542
Loc: Chicago
Today I recived my brand new out of the box TC Helicon voiceLIve Touch. It actually arrived several days ago but I have been on the Road and just returned tonight. Set it up - no sound - checked wiring - checked ins and outs - check channel - setup - drivers - chekc DAW - push this, slide that, tap this, double tap that....and on and on for the first 30 minutes starting to get scared - checked the manual - put a headpone jack in and yes there was my voice via the mic so it was at least on....

Then at about the 45 minute mark it was like the clouds parted the sun came through and the little box came to life - OMG! five voice harmony from a choir - voice doubling - verb so thick you could cut it with a knife, angelic upregister harmonies..was that really my voice? Frickin incredible....

Now the final word on Harmonizer is if you have any thoughts of letting your voice enter into your music you have to check this out.
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#114201 - 09/01/11 09:36 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: MusicStudent]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7577
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
there seem to be 2 schools of thought on vocal processors... you either love them or you don't. I'm in the group that thinks they're wayyy cool.

I predict you're about to have a lot of fun, Dan! Keep us posted!

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#114202 - 09/02/11 12:45 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Pat Marr]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Keep us in the loop Dan!
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John Conley
Musica est vita

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#114203 - 09/02/11 11:46 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Final Verdict on Harmonizer [Re: Sundance]
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5542
Loc: Chicago
Quote:

I use the PNOSIMP style for piano chords. Generate a midi piano track in RB and then change the RB style back to the original style. Make midi channel and harmonizer channel match - voila. Easy.




This is pure gold. I have my simple midi piano track in the mix,

Now how do I, "Make midi channel and harmonizer channel match". My harmonizer is currently only connected via USB and I don't see it appear in the options to send to a USB device. I will try to work on this and perhaps I can pharse a better questions other than "what now"?

Hold it, there was some Global Presets in the harmonizer to adjust, bear with me for a bit!


Edited by jazzmandan (09/03/11 12:18 AM)

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