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Just got my Ketron SD2 device some days ago, and after some tests, it seems that the patches PC 041(violin), PC042 (viola), PC043 (cello) and 044 (contrabass), bank A, are the same voices when you hear them : If you hit the same note on your keyboard, and if you change the patch from violin to contrabass, you get the same audio voice. As far I understand, if we want the violin sound, so we need to start from G2 note and above, for viola use C2 note and above, for cello use C1 note and above and for contrabrass use C0 note and above. I test the patches of SD2 directly via a master MIDI keyboard, without any extra software.
Does anybody use these patches ? Did anybody test them and did somebody notice that on its DS2 module ? I just want to know if this is a normal situation or not.
Reach for excellence
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If you play the same note on a guitar does it sound the same? Or is G on each string different? I don't know. I wonder about trumpet, trombone, and bombardino?
I can tell you that hamburger tastes much better in a Paris cafe than here though.
I have a Ketron SD2 but never noticed yet.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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John, Welcome in France for the hamburgers ! Thanks for your inputs, if you don't use strings instruments in question, you may have not noticed this subtility.
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De rien Jean-Luc!
90% du temps je n'utilise que basse et batteur, styles RealTracks de jazz. Parfois le patch 50 mais rarement. Le fait que je suis devenu sourd l'annee passe aux sons au dessus de 900hz, les violins m'echappe des fois.
(A noter: ici la police de sante insiste que le viande hache soit cuit brun fonce a cause des 'usines' fermes/abattiors. C'est pour cela que j'ai bien aime mon hamburger parisienne il y a trois semanines. J'espere bien de retourner pour une longue sejour le plus tot que possible!)
Salut
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Hi Jean Luc,
The majority of Ketron SD2 users connect the module to their computers using an interface such as the Edirol UM-1ex which plugs into a computer USB port and connects to the Module with Midi Cables. The idea is to use Sequencers such as RealBand and Powertracks as the Midi device for producing music. If, as it appears, you are connecting your keyboard directly to the Ketron Module with Midi Cables, then the problem would appear to lie with your Keyboard setup or maybe your connecting cables.
I would try a setup using say RealBand to prove which one is at fault.
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Dear Lyn and Jean-Luc:
Respectfully, Lynn, I disagree. He said he was just testing the voices by going direct out of his KB.
I checked out his named patches, via BB, and I agree, they sound like exactly the same patch (#41,42,43). However, I would say this is normal, and I think Jean-Luc now understands perfectly that the manufacturer (Ketron) has set it up this way, so you can use different sections of the keyboard to represent different instruments.
Yes, I would agree this is "cheating" on the part of the manufacturer, but it seems to me that they have all been doing this for years (I still play an old Korg M1 sometimes), in order to save them time and expense, and it (pretty much) works OK.
Hope this helps. I really believe that Jean-Luc now understands what the problem is, and that it is "normal," and he maybe shouldn't expect too much from the guys that set up the sound banks.
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Hi Lyn & Brallan,
I'm glad to know there is somebody in the world who can a)well understand my question and b)confirm my conclusion about the real sounds of strings patches#41, 42, 43 and 44. I can understand the position of Ketron, though it could be doubtful because in my mind 384 GM voices means 384 different voices, anyway the SD2 is a very good expander. I'm not sure that many SD2 owners have already noticed the same voices for the four Strings instruments. Thanks Brallan, now I know my SD2 is not defective !
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I think they make an assumption that if you write music on a staff, you know where to put it so that it would sound right.
So if you have violins you put the notes up.
The cello reads bass notes.
And so on down.
So using the same sound sample, but in different registers, provides you that instrument, which is bowed and played the same way.
If you were to sample the air horn from a boat, you might have small horn, medium horn, and low horn, but they would all attack, decay, and have the same frequency 'shape'. Thus you can take one sample and provide it 3 ways, and expect the person including that to transpose it.
On my new Korg they have strings and some patches that are piano and strings. This gives you a new patch but really it is just the 2 added together so really neither are new.
It's all learning and interesting. I think the marketing people become involved and the idea is to have the most patches to impress you during the purchase process.
It's like my car. Manual, Sport, or just plain Drive. They say 3 modes. Well, if you push the manual it seems the same as sport the way I drive. My wife always uses the conservative drive. But they advertise 3 modes. There really is only one 6 speed transmission. And you use all 6 of the same gears. BMW marketing.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I think it has more to do with the fact that the SD2 is actually the Sound Engine of one of the Ketron autoaccompaniment keyboards that was simply lifted out of the keyboard and turned into a standalone sound engine.
--Mac
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Hi John Luke,
I have checked these patches via RealBand and agree that the sounds are identical, but cannot remember coming across this before. I have used the solo violin which I like but not the others as I have banks of orchestral instruments which I prefer and, if necessary, can change using a Sampler.
A very good spot.
Lyn
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My module behavior is identical. Also, the grand piano (patch 00) and bright piano (patch 01) use the same sound. Probably this way, the manufacturer could use a small amount of wave memory for better patches. Anyway, some patches including trumpets and saxes sound wonderful.
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While the Grand Piano 000 and the Bright Piano 001 may be derived from the same wonderful sounding "European" Italian Grand Piano samples, I certainly can hear a distinct difference between those two patches.
--Mac
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They indeed sound slightly different, but at very low volume, sound difference is not evident.
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I just recently purchased the Sd2 and was hoping I could simply connect a Midi cable between itself and my Ketron X4 arranger--same as X1 Keyboard but without keys--but I think I may have been mistaken in thinking it would be that simple.
I bought it to basically beef up the sounds of my Midifiles. Does anyone know if it can be done without using a computer programe ? It did work in so far as I was able to hear some sounds playing but when i tried to edit anything using the X4 and then save it it refused to SAVE. I mistakenly thought that the X 4 would recognize the different voices from the Sd2 and allow me to save them as normal but that would not work for me
Any help gratefully appreciated
Rusty
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Hi Rusty,
I think what you are saying that you want to do is this:
Playback MIDI files on the keyboard, using the keyboard's storage and MIDI program, but have the voices directed to your new Ketron - AND at the same time you want to assign different patches to the MIDI songs.
This can likely be done, but it involves you EDITING each of those MIDI files, one at a time, and changing the Patch Data commands sent from each one from what they are currently to what you want them to be.
The first thing to do is get your hands on the manual for your keyboard. See if you can send Upper Bank commands (sometimes called something else, maybe MSB and LSB or maybe something entirely different) from your keyboard. If that can be done, then you would have to use the Patch Maps found in the back of your Ketron manual to identify the Bank and the Patch Number desired for each track in your MIDI songs and Edit out the original Patch Data and insert your new commands.
--Mac
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