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These forums are a great source of info for sure, this is a good trick to know!:)

Like most things, making time to read the manuals & look through the video tutorials is very important, but the live" help you get here is so much better....& quicker! Look at how many vids Peter has made the last few days that answered folks questions, fantastic!


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Noel,

A couple of weeks eh? How do you do Data! You must have quite a background in computer based audio. I sure appreciate your help...All that stuff is behind me now and I have a usable track structured perfectly.It was all so simple and yet I just couldn't get it from the manual or help files. Now I'm trying to determine if BIAB allows working with two lead instruments (guitar and fiddle on this bluegrass track to be precise)so they trade off as they would in a live band. Can't find any way to do that....do I have to get it over to RB to do stuff like that?

I'm just starting to look at RB help files.Do you know of a video that would help me get started? I've got allot to figure out as you know better than I!

BTW I'm working on XPPro in an HP DX2400, Intel 2.6 dual core, 4mb ram, 500 gig HD. No outboard synth.

Listened to some of your music....nice...very nice! "Amazing to Me" is a good'n!

Thanks,Noel.

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Yeah buddy! BIG help! Can you point me to some of those vids please?

Thanks

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Hi Brian,

Thanks for having a listen to some of my music. BIAB makes it fun compose songs. The software has taken me to places I could never have gone without it!

You questions ...

Firstly: regarding two lead instruments trading off one another. That is indeed possible. I'll write up one way that it can be done and post it for you as soon as I get a chance.

Secondly: while I'm doing that, you might want to have a look at some of the videos accessed by the following link.

Link to videos

(these are found under the Support button at the top of the web page)

The "Powerguide" zip file at the very bottom of the page looks very interesting. The new features in BIAB 2011 is well worth watching too. This is right at the top of the web page.

Also, if you got to http://youtube.com and type in Band In A Box, you'll find that there are a number of videos available there, too, that users have put together.

Regards,
Noel


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Hi Brian,

One way to create the kind of trade offs that you are after is as follows.
  • Put one of your solo Realtrack in the "Soloist" position of BIAB.
  • Put the second solo Realtrack in the "Melody" position of BIAB.
  • Make a note of which bars you want to change from one instrument to the other.
Essentially, what I'm going to suggest below is to activate one instrument for a range of bars and then to mute the other. This is achieved by using "Bar Settings" (where the previously mentioned "Reset all bars" is located).

As an example, let's use fiddle and guitar as the two instruments (as you suggested).
Now, say I want the guitar to play bars 1 to 8 and then the fiddle comes in for 9 to 16, and then it goes back to guitar at 17 until the end of the song.
  • Right-click on bar 1 and select "Bar Settings".
  • Set the Melody track to "Normal" (see picture below).
  • Set the Soloist track to "Mute". (I'm assuming that the guitar is in the Melody and the fiddle is in the Soloist.)
  • Right-click on bar 9, select "Bar Settings".
  • Now set the Melody track to "Mute".
  • Also set the Soloist track to "Normal".
  • Lastly, right-click on bar 17, "bar settings", and set the Melody to "Normal" and the Soloist to "Mute".
  • Generate the song.
That should do it!



Each time you make a bar setting, BIAB will put a red rectangle around the bar number as seen in the picture above. (The picture indicates that I've set bars 1, 9, 17.)

NOTE: If the picture doesn't show up, it's because of a web issue. I'd try again later if that is the case.

Good luck!
Noel

P.S. When you get the hang of this, you might like to look up "Soloist Medleys" in the 2011 New Features pdf that's located under the Start Menu in the BIAB folder. This feature is also covered in the 2011 New Features video on the website that I gave in the post above.


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Hi Noel,

I am using a bluegrass style that has a lead acoustic real track already assigned to the piano track. I assume I can reference that track in the same way you describe?

Will volume settings also be saved as manipulated during a playback?

I found that PDF but I did not find any procedure outline for that topic.(soloist medleys) Just a "you can" reference.

Yes...this program is an awesome writing tool. I can't imagine how anyone could figure it out in two weeks! I was wondering if you could design a viable cold fusion energy plant in your spare time..that is if you're in the mood! We old cats just aren't wired for this stuff so it takes a considerable amount of time to grasp what is being discussed....we grew up and cut our recording teeth on hard wired signal flow so I find myself always instinctively looking for a signal path so I can understand what I'm actually doing....where it's coming from and where it's going and what it's running through on the way but it just doesn't "think" that way. I'll get it...eventually! LOL

I'll work with this trading off thing today and let you know how I do.

Thanks much! It's really good of you to take the time to help like this.

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Hi Brian,
Quote:

I am using a bluegrass style that has a lead acoustic real track already assigned to the piano track. I assume I can reference that track in the same way you describe?



Yep, you sure can. Just use mute/normal for the Piano track.
Quote:

Will volume settings also be saved as manipulated during a playback?



Yes they will. When the song is saved, all bar settings are saved with it.
Quote:

I found that PDF but I did not find any procedure outline for that topic.(soloist medleys) Just a "you can" reference.



I cheated and used CNTRL-F to find the phrase "soloist medley". The "Now let's make a soloist medley" section begins on page 11 of the 2011 New Features guide. (It's on page 18 of the 2011.5 New Features guide.)

One thing that might help make using "Bar Settings" a bit quicker for you is to use F5 after you click on the bar. (When you right-click on a bar, you'll notice that "Bar Settings" has F5 to the right of it. This means that F5 is the shortcut key for "Bar Settings".)

All the best. From what I can tell, you're starting to get this program under control!
Noel


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Quote:

...I wrote a song with a bridge followed by a chorus (using term traditionally)then a key change to two stanzas, a two line tag and then out.




If you're happy with working with one long chorus fine but maybe you want to create a fakebook type of chart and that's where the 1st/2nd/coda/tag stuff comes in.

Part of the problem is the age old definition of terms. You said you're using the term chorus traditionally. That can still mean different things to different people. Biab uses the term "chorus" in the classical sense, basically the whole song with an intro at the front and an ending at the end. Everything in between is called a chorus. Don't ask me for the detail on that but it has been explained here before and that is a correct usage of the term "chorus". There's plenty of music teachers on this forum who have verified that. Biab does not use the terms verse, chorus, stanza, bridge in the way that most of us pop players use those terms. I agree with some here that it would be better if they did but then we would all be arguing about what is a stanza, no this is a bridge, not that, blah blah. PG has created their way of doing it and that's it.

If you need to do this then think in terms of PG's definition of chorus. You start with an intro but the intro can be as long as you like, it doesn't have to be a common 4 or 8 bar thing, it could be a whole say 50 bar section of your song and the chorus starts on bar 51. Now you count the bars and figure out where you want the end of the chorus to be and you set those bar numbers in the boxes in the middle of the menu line that says beginning chorus and end chorus. The beginning is bar 51 and the ending is whatever. Within that chorus you set up your 1st/2nd/ending leading to a bridge after the 2nd ending and it will repeat back to the beginning of the chorus, (the A section) play that again and then set up a tag or coda where it jumps to the first bar after everything else and again that doesn't have to be a short tag, it can be another 20-30-50 whatever bars then set up the final ending. The final ending could be another eloborate section.

Once you get used to the convention, you can take this tune and put it into that format if you need to but as Matt and others have said, this can get complicated and it is simpler to do the whole thing as one long song (chorus, remember) if you don't need the other stuff.

Bob


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Thanks Bob.

Excellent information very well conveyed.I must say that PG would do well to consider a few paragraphs of human - friendly discourse on this very subject since it is highly probable that most of their buyers are pop songwriters. (After all it's not called "Orchestra in a Box"...imagine what THAT would do to sales!)Then again I must respect the immensity of the task that is the undertaking of explaining how to use this program from that paradigm as well as the fact that the entire world of computer technology is not, by nature, friendly to the pre-ET dimension of mental process.(That was a joke but I don't see how to insert an icon here!)It is up to us to figure out the maze. Must say they sure did a fine job putting it together (imagine the dimension of the endeavor!)and on this forum we find our clarity. Nothing but praise for all the fine people at PG who not only created this fine tool but also wisely created and host this superbly crafted platform for us and thanks to everyone here.It's a pleasure to become acquainted with this product,its company and to communicate with some of the really smart,creative, and very helpful people on this forum

Let's keep learning and writing!

Thanks.

Brian

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Again, Noel, I thank you for your clear instructions. I added some fiddle today but haven't had time yet to do any detailed work with the track. I live in Nashville and it was HOT today! When I got home there wasn't much left.

At least I'm not grappling with the fundamental form anymore! And amen to that! Yes...it's starting to be much less intimidating!


I'll get back on it and let you know how it goes.Appreciate the F5 tip.

Thank you!

All the best to you as well!

Brian

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There is a great deal of power in F5, and much in right-click, too. Not to mention that, for every new version, I take time to look at every menu option, and I continue to be amazed at all that is in this program.

Just play with everything for awhile and have some fun taking it all in.


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Thanks Matt.Will do.

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Hi Noel,

I made a copy to practice on,went in and made some track edits but when I tried to play back have no sound on this new copy at all. The original plays fine.

What could I have done?

Thanks

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How did you make the copy of the songfile?

I would use Explorer to highlight, Copy and Paste the file to another folder. I would then change its name slightly so I could tell the two apart.

Attempts to Copy and Paste from inside BiaB are not likely to copy all the data needed, such as Patches, etc.

Also, be advised that attempts to Copy an already corrupted song file would likely only copy the corruption as well. Sometimes a song file becomes corrupted from heavy editing sessions or perhaps running out of resources during long sessions - or if the program crashes or freezes while working on that particular file - and the only cure for that I have found is to hit New and start all over again, entering the song from scratch.

--Mac

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Mac,

Thanks for your response!

Here's what I did:

from the original song file which was then and is now fine I went to file, clicked "save song as",changed the name and clicked save.I got a new version named as requested. I do not remember if I tried to play it before going into bar settings and setting up some mutes and return to normal entries for the solo acoustic guitar track. (It's a bluegrass style and I added a RT shuffle style fiddle on the melody track which made the stock Guitar track too busy...that's why I'm pulling the guitar in and out)

After doing three Mute-return to normal entries I tried to play it back and got no audio. Then I went back to the original and it plays fine as do all other works in progress in the BIAB song folder.

As far as saving a song file another way such as your suggestion to use explorer..I do not know how to do that and was not aware that the save method I'm using could lead to trouble.

Thanks!

Brian

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Hi Brian,

Below are some thoughts that occurred to me regarding your problem given all that we've so far been through.

It could be that the "Mute" for "all instruments" was accidentally activated at bar 1. To double check this, go to the Bar Settings on bar 1 and have a look at the very top setting of the Mute/Normal box.

Another possibility is that the style has inadvertently been disabled. If this is the case, it can be seen as a black cross next to the style name. (See picture below.)



To enable the style, simply click in the style name and a menu will pop-up that will allow to you activate the style.

If it turns out that neither of the above is the culprit, the below is what I'd try.

Use F5 to get into Bar Settings (or right-click on the chord sheet) and then "Reset all bars". Now generate the song by hitting the play button and see if any sound is heard. If not, it sounds like the file is faulty.

In this instance, I'd simply open the original saved file (this is the beauty of always keeping the original file intact) and create another version of that original file to work from. (For some reason, every once in a while, faulty files arise. I've found that it's usually a whole lot simpler to re-start from scratch rather than try to find the "why is this so" solution. I know that this approach is a bit of a pain but it is often the quickest solution in the long run.)

Also, before going through and adding the "mutes" and "back to normal" settings, I'd generate the song. This shouldn't make a difference that I'm aware of, but maybe it does. It's worth a try as a different approach.

Hope these thoughts help.

Regards,
Noel.

P.S. You're really starting to learn about BIAB now

Last edited by Noel96; 07/13/11 04:54 PM.

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Thanks, Noel.

The problem was that BIAB was failing to create a full and functional copy using "save song as" so I could change the name and not risk my "master".I was getting copies that showed the new name and the chord chart but they would not produce any sound. Also strange was that the file copy was reduced from 93.4 MB to 19.4.

I kept deleting the copies and trying it again. Same. Then I tried unfreezing the tracks before saving and the program locked up so I clicked "end program" and reloaded the master. Everything came back intact so I tried another duplication with new name and that time it worked so I went ahead with the new copy and edited the guitar leaving the shuffle fiddle constant throughout and the end result is an excellent bluegrass track. I'd need a really good band to do better...amazing what this program can deliver...and I'm just getting started!

What happened? Who knows? All's well that ends well! Sounds like a temporary glitch in the anti matter influx sub-quadrant divider to me! Hate it when that happens.

Thanks for your help...again!

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Hi Brian,

Thanks for the update. Sure can't trust those anti matter flux dividers

By the way, my next question was going to be about frozen Realtracks! You're a mind reader!

Please keep in mind that when you do the bar settings, it is necessary to unfreeze the Realtracks and then generate the song. The concept of "freezing" is used to keep a Realtrack exactly the same; freezing stops a Realtrack from being modified in any way whatsoever. This means that any changes to the song can not be reflected in the song until all necessary tracks are unfrozen and the song is regenerated.

By "necessary", I mean that if the change only affects (say) the Piano track, it's only necessary to unfreeze the Piano track and regenerate.

Regards,
Noel


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Noel,

Interesting...I did not know that and did not unfreeze the lead acoustic....the changes recorded perfectly!

I didn't unfreeze because the take from BIAB was the one I wanted to work with...and still it worked! Computer "logic"! Next time I'll do the same and see what happens...I'll let you know.

Cheers
Brian

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Brian,

It's good hear that it's all coming together! I look forward to hearing how it worked out for you.

Regards,
Noel


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