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#122381 - 07/29/11 12:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: redguitars]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17414
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Wayne, I understand your point, certainly. But you have missed four upgrades, not one: 2009.5, 2010, 2010.5 and 2011.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#122382 - 07/29/11 12:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: redguitars]
musiclover Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 1499
Quote:

I haven't upgraded since 2009. The RealTracks in 2010 weren't what I really needed most.
I see how 2011 version has really changed things, with a lot of new features and some really great RTs, But I also agree that missing one upgrade shouldn't put you in the lowest catagory.

I've also been a BIAB use since the Atari ST, crossed over to the PC and haven't kept up with all the updates.
I went from an early version to 2008 and then 2009.

I know the 2011 is much better, because I can here it in the songs that people are posting.
They sound much better. But I just don't have the money.

I know they give a lot, but it still is very expensive for a first time buyer. And by missing one upgrade puts you in the same place as someone who hasn't upgraded for 5 years or more isn't right to me.

Please don't get me wrong. I love this program and would love to have the latest version, But I also love my home Heating Oil. And they have no loyalty to anyone ever.

I'll be waiting for the Christmas sale.
Wayne,




Yes you are right Wayne the Christmas sale is usually the best deal. In past years users who have the same version older than 2 years were only charged $20 more than others for the standard ultrapak, so I see your point entirely utilities and more pressing matters come first.

With a bit of luck the sale at start of Dec will have similar offers to past years. Upgrading band in a box twice yearly (though its a must have program) can over a period of several years add up to many hundreds of dollars.

I do understand the point of others as well that its money well spent, indeed it is if one has the cash to spare.


musiclover
_________________________
Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 7 and 10 (32 bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro,Band in a Box 2018 Cubase 5.0 and Cubase elements 7.0.

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#122383 - 07/29/11 01:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: redguitars]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6531
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
I think people need to keep this in perspective. Most of us do this as a hobby including me even though I am a professional player and do a lot of gigs. My gigging has nothing to do with these programs except for one summer about 4 years ago when I subbed for a friend as a single act. I did use Biab on my laptop briefly for some of that but otherwise it's just a fun hobby.

As a hobby compare this to other hobbies people have, golf, water skiing, camping, RC airplanes etc, etc. What's the yearly cost of going to a golf course a couple times a month playing a round and having lunch in the clubhouse? That stuff easily costs thousands a year. Even basic fun stuff can cost many hundreds. Just a one weekend camping trip or visit to a national park of a few hundred miles could be five bills. Maybe you like going to the lake and renting jet ski's. Easily a grand for one summer of that. My sister is a movie fanatic so she sees all the latest ones and she likes all genres, dramas, scifi, romance, animations, whatever. She's my go to person for reviews because I only see a few, usually the big blockbuster ones like Transformers or Harry Potter. She used to love going to drive ins because those were fun and cheaper than the theater. Now it costs her at least a hundred and a half a month for tickets and popcorn and don't forget the gas in the car. At $4 a gallon gas is not a small cost either to do anything fun. It's all about personal priorities and what floats your boat.

$3-500 a year to keep up with all the PG upgrades and to upgrade your PC every few years fits right into the hobby scenario and is on the lower end of those costs for what you get imho. I certainly know the economy sucks right now and many have had to cut back so you can only do what you can do.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#122384 - 07/29/11 02:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: jazzmammal]
Danny C. Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6480
Loc: South Louisiana
Just my 2 cents . . . I do between 85-100 gigs per year, all solo, so BIAB is indeed my band. When the gigs slow down or I choose not to do so I will not be updating as much as I do now, which is every upgrade.

Regarding the "pricing getting further out of reach" . . . my thought on this subject is that it is subjective. For instance, not that I have bottomless pockets but to me the pricing is very fair for what BIAB does for me. Sort of like my neighbor decides to drive a new car every year, but I don't. Also it's a choice I make when deciding how to spend my music equipment dollars.

Later,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

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#122385 - 07/29/11 03:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: Danny C.]
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
I totally agree with Bob and usually say so twice a year. The same speach. The bottom line though is the statement,"Pricing getting further out of reach?". To me that's an insinuation that PGMusic is trying to pull some sort of fast one. Nothing could be further from the truth in my opinion. They are a business. They upgrade there product, just like car companies, in hopes of generating more revenue.More revenue means more jobs & more product. If PG didn't sell product you wouldn't have to worry about the twice a year upgrades . They'd be out of business. If you can't afford the updates that's understandable in this economy don't get them. The thing is the program you bought in 2008 works exactly the same now.
Now I'll throw in my typical weird question:
How many do not get the updates due to the fact that your wife,husband or significant other is not a musician and thinks that it's a frivolous unnecessary purchase?
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#122386 - 07/29/11 09:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: silvertones]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6480
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

I'll throw in my typical weird question:
How many do not get the updates due to the fact that your wife,husband or significant other is not a musician and thinks that it's, a frivolous unnecessary purchase?




My hope is the answer to that question in "0" for too many reasons to list here.

Later,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

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#122387 - 07/30/11 06:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: Danny C.]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
That does not happen here, but I shopped hard and long for wife #2.

My brother on the other hand, now married over 30 years calls to ask how many sheets of paper he's allowed to wipe with in the bath room at the Hudson's Bay Store before getting it wrong, again.

My wife wouldn't know how the money works anyway only 1/2 of her is Hebredian, which according to my spellchecker is really harebrained, but I'm 100% of the Isles, so I trumped her, and I've walked across her island too, I see why they left ach aye.

_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#122388 - 07/30/11 03:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: John Conley]
Tommyc Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 2731
Why would you ever tell anyone anything about a upgrade in Biab ,they know something is up when you start smiling for no apparent reason . My oldest grand daughter just sprang for mine don't tell mama .

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#122389 - 07/30/11 04:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: Tommyc]
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
Also keep in mind here that PG Music isn't "holding back" features so there CAN be a "next upgrade". As they come up with new stuff, they make it available. This is not a business model based on planned obsolescence. Your new car will rust. Your new clubs will need grips in 4 years. Your boat needs to be winterized every year. BIAB will keep going and going a la energizer bunny as long as your computer is running, and on to the next computer if you are a smart enough user to run from an image and save the patches elsewhere to avoid a catastrophic crash scenario.

John, glad your shopping resulted in a quality #2. I tried three of them and I am staying out of the store.....
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I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#122390 - 07/30/11 05:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: Tommyc]
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
Quote:

Why would you ever tell anyone anything about a upgrade in Biab ,they know something is up when you start smiling for no apparent reason . My oldest grand daughter just sprang for mine don't tell mama .




Very nice grand child
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#122391 - 07/31/11 02:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: silvertones]
redguitars Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
I can live with the BIAB pricing. I don't think they're trying to put one over on anybody.

What I want is the ETHENOL out my gasoline. My car was quicker and got 4-5 more mpg before.
Talk about a downgrade. My car went from 23-24 mpg to 19mpg. And lost a some pep.

Wayne, (I love my 1993 Bonneville)
_________________________
"My Music Page"

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#122392 - 07/31/11 09:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: redguitars]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11193
Loc: Hamlin NY
Quote:

What I want is the ETHENOL out my gasoline. My car was quicker and got 4-5 more mpg before.
Talk about a downgrade. My car went from 23-24 mpg to 19mpg. And lost a some pep.

Wayne, (I love my 1993 Bonneville)




A BIG +1

My truck went from 19 mpg to 15 mpg! That is without the air conditioning on!

Ethanol, our government’s latest feel good do harm policy!


Edited by MarioD (07/31/11 09:41 PM)
_________________________
I NEVER RUN WITH SCISSORS. Actually those last two words were unnecessary.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#122393 - 07/31/11 11:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: DJL]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3355
Loc: WV, USA
I've been around for quite awhile too, and it is sad to see the prices getting up to where they are. I know it's a GREAT product, but it is starting to get out of reach for a lot of us.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#122394 - 08/01/11 12:18 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: bobcflatpicker]
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
You talking about BIAB or gasoline, Bob?
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#122395 - 08/01/11 08:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: eddie1261]
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5517
Loc: Chicago
Sorry to have to admit it, but tough economic times here at the Jazzmandan house. Always have justified in the past the cost (and I do agree well worth the $), but at this time wifey has placed a lock on the credit card. She tells me she may unlock it soon, so here it is Aug 1, will they extend the sale price?

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#122396 - 08/01/11 09:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: MusicStudent]
musiclover Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 1499
I can see everyones point of view here, my own opinion is that the program started to get a bit more expensive since the mid year updates were introduced, and since the mid year biab program on its own is no longer free in effect you are signing up to 6 mths updates (instead of a year) each time you upgrade.

Another little thing that annoys me is when a new user appears say around october or november and asks about the program, not many long time uers say "hey buddy its a great program but Please if you can wait to christams time and buy it in the sale you will save $$$$$$$ that way" Its as if its a well kept secret that first time visitors are not allowed to know.

I hope that PG takes everyones views on board and Not SLowly Kill the Goose thats Laying the Golden Egg.

musiclover
_________________________
Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 7 and 10 (32 bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro,Band in a Box 2018 Cubase 5.0 and Cubase elements 7.0.

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#122397 - 08/01/11 10:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: musiclover]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11193
Loc: Hamlin NY
The formula is quite simple:

More RTs = more money. As more and more people want specific RTs, which is a good thing, more and more time is put into studio and that means more money outlay for PGMusic. Hiring musicians, recording, converting to RTs and delivery all cost.

The same thing is true for the midi side. If you want good midi you have to put out more money. Kontakt sounds better than SF2s. A $3,000 USD keyboard/tone generator will sound better than Kontakt.

Back to RTs, you don’t have to upgrade the whole enchilada every time. The new BiaB will play the old RTs just fine. So one can upgrade the engine (BiaB/RB) for $69 USD then pick and choose what new RTs you really need.

I know I wanted the whole enchilada this year but other purchases had to come first.

Just my two USD cents.
_________________________
I NEVER RUN WITH SCISSORS. Actually those last two words were unnecessary.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#122398 - 08/01/11 11:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: musiclover]
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
Quote:

I can see everyones point of view here, my own opinion is that the program started to get a bit more expensive since the mid year updates were introduced, and since the mid year biab program on its own is no longer free in effect you are signing up to 6 mths updates (instead of a year) each time you upgrade.




Let's see if I get this. Let's say that PG has 100 new RTs to put out each year.So come Jan. They put out 100 & some upgrades in the program and you buy it. Now they start working on the next release. Instead of waiting until next Jan to put it out they put it out with 50 RTs and some updates in June.Those that can afford it buy mid year & get 50 new RTs. Those that can't afford it get the 100 RTs at the end of the year.So those that can't afford it are at the same place we'd all be if they only did a once a year update. That's how I see it.It's just bugging you that those 50 mid year RTs and updates are out there to buy and you won't do it out of some sort of principal.As I see it those willing to pay $99 mid year are getting to use the new RTs 6 months earlier then those that don't buy it.

Quote:

Another little thing that annoys me is when a new user appears say around october or november and asks about the program, not many long time uers say "hey buddy its a great program but Please if you can wait to christams time and buy it in the sale you will save $$$$$$$ that way" Its as if its a well kept secret that first time visitors are not allowed to know.




Not my job.

Quote:

I hope that PG takes everyones views on board and Not SLowly Kill the Goose thats Laying the Golden Egg.




Something tells me that they really don't need us telling them how to run their business.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#122399 - 08/01/11 11:54 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: silvertones]
Kemmrich Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Good points above. The #1 reason to upgrade in the summer is to get those RT's to use now. Plus next December, if they introduced all the RT's that everyone wanted, PGM might not be able to afford as big of a sale price. That's the risk those of us take when we don't sign up for the mid-year update. I hope they have a big sale next December for BIAB 2012, but PGM has to make money to stay in business -- and we all want them to stay in business.
_________________________
Now at bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh @ bandcamp or soundcloud: Kevin @ soundcloud

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#122400 - 08/01/11 12:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Pricings getting further out of reach? [Re: silvertones]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6531
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Good points, John. Hmmm, is that once or twice I've agreed with you this year?

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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