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#126149 - 08/23/11 05:01 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Danny C.]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7207
Danny,
I meant the end as far as Bob and I go because until we hear back from you it's all speculation as to what you are really running for gear and how.
I think Bob and I agree on two things:
1. If you are plugging your laptop directly into a powere amp without any sort of mixer that this is wrong
2. If you are using a mixer already, as I suspect, then to add another mixer is also wrong as there should be plenty of gain.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
http://wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.html

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#126150 - 08/23/11 05:10 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Danny C.]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18759
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I *think* John meant that this shows you use some sort of mixer already. If you confirm that, it probably IS 'the end'. Until you report back on how the extra mixer works out. Did you check the properties stuff I mentioned a few posts up?
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#126151 - 08/23/11 05:45 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: rharv]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
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Quote:

I *think* John meant that this shows you use some sort of mixer already. If you confirm that, it probably IS 'the end'. Until you report back on how the extra mixer works out. Did you check the properties stuff I mentioned a few posts up?



I'll go back to my original statement. In this situation to add another mixer to get enough gain certainly will work but to me it's just fixing the symptom and not the problem.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
http://wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.html

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#126152 - 08/23/11 07:57 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: rharv]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6464
Loc: South Louisiana
Bob & John,

I just got to check out the suggestions you pointed out and (fingers crossed) or maybe at this stage of the game it may be wishful thinking but I think I did gain some volume. However the only way to know for sure is when I kick off my fisrt tune at day after tomorrow gig. In the until then I thank both of you for the assistance and promise to let you know the final results.

Later,
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#126153 - 08/24/11 08:39 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Danny C.]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7207
BUT Danny you still haven't told us if you're plugging directly into the power amp or if you have a mixer as part of your original setup.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
http://wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.html

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#126154 - 08/24/11 09:24 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
Quote:

BUT Danny you still haven't told us if you're plugging directly into the power amp or if you have a mixer as part of your original setup.




How about a picture of the gear. A picture will tell a 1000 words.

My PA does indeed include a 6 Channel Mixer - perhaps it is best called a Powered Mixer with Cabinets. I have connected directly from the 1/8 headphone out of the laptop to the RCA inputs of the powered mixer with good results. Howwever, I also setup with a small Beringer 4 channel mixer between the laptop and the powered mixer. I do this in two cases, 1) when I am using the house PA system and don't have easy access or control of the house board or 2) when I simply want to have control right where I am playing (sitting). In either case, I leave the PA along and I can adjust my levels for Guitar, BIAB and mic, from my music stand. I have a picture of the whole setup somewhere around here....

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#126155 - 08/24/11 09:32 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: silvertones]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7350
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Let's make this easy:

Danny - report back with the model number(s) of the mixer and/or amp section of your PA. I'm guessing you have a powered Yamaha mixer; but perhaps not, maybe you have powered main speakers, or completely separate components.

Yamaha has nearly all of their user manuals for their series of products up on their website. After a short download, we'll get to see what inputs are available.

There should be a Tape in set of RCA connectors, or a set of stereo line-in connectors on 1/4" jacks if there's a mixer of any type involved, built-in amp or not.

However, this doesn't mean that your laptop has equivalent output at the headphone jack as what your old lappy did; even with all software controls set the same for the output volume. I've experienced this myself - even among the same name brand. Fact of the matter is, there's only a few actual lappy builders in the world that OEM them for all the brands and one particular brand doesn't always buy from the same maker. I don't think this is the case with Lenovo - pretty sure they are one of the brands that actually builds their own.

But, with that said, there should be sufficient make-up gain available in the mixer to account for a mismatch - so as to avoid remixing all of your backing tracks.

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#126156 - 08/24/11 10:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: silvertones]
Danny C. Offline
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Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

BUT Danny you still haven't told us if you're plugging directly into the power amp or if you have a mixer as part of your original setup.




John & Bob,

Sorry but I thought I did mention that I am plugging right from the earphone jack to the "pictured here" Yamaha PA via RCA lines into the line in jack of the PA. Also that I have been doing the same thing for six years prior or so with other laptops with zero issues. Also I have my 1st gig tomorrow and I did make some adjustments as directed by Bob in another post that may have helped, I'll know tomorrow and will post results at that time.

Edited portion: The only ,difference in my setup is that I do not have powered speakers.

Please keep in mind the only thing that has changed since everything was sounding fine "for the past six years" is the laptop.

Later


Edited by Danny C. (08/24/11 10:48 AM)
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#126157 - 08/24/11 10:29 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Danny C.]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Geez.

I for one already knew what Danny uses for his PA system because he has posted that info here in the past.

When you see, "PA" used as an abbreviation, it is always designating, "Public Address" system or PA System. More than 40 years in the business, both performing and as an electronics technician, I've never seen PA used to designate "Power Amp".

It is apparent that the new laptop that Danny has does not produce enough amplitude to drive the consumer level line inputs of his PA. Quit trying to compare a newer model Lenovo to an older model. Danny even said he went back to the computer store and auditioned a bunch of laptops and all of them exhibit the lower volume hassle, for whatever reason this appears to be designed in. Don't know what the laptop designers are thinking, what with the current level of consumer interest in the viewing of movies, videos and audio listening on puters, perhaps it is a sign that they are trying to sell folks more aftermarket sound devices, dunno. And don't care. If there is a problem and Danny has to do the gigs, solve the problem. Amplifying the output of the laptop using an inexpensive and tiny home mixer as a line amp can and will solve that problem for him.


--Mac
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#126158 - 08/24/11 11:08 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Mac]
Don Gaynor Online   content
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Registered: 12/10/03
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Loc: Oklahoma, USA
mac, i always assume pa means pennsylvania in any music-related context. either that or pa, meaning father, if we're jawin' bout bluegrass or corn whiskey.

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#126159 - 08/24/11 11:17 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Don Gaynor]
Mac Offline
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Well, I grew up in southwest Pennsyltucky where we all thought the abbreviation for the state was PT.

And Paw allus had a dubya on the end of it.


--Mac
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#126160 - 08/24/11 11:32 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7207
I'm not comparing an old Lenovo to a new Lenovo. I'm comparing HIS new Lenovo to MY new Lenovo with the same soundcard.This is why I persist on finding him the solution to his problem and not just a solution to the symptom.
As far as PA there was some concern he wasn't using a mixer to begin with.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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#126161 - 08/24/11 02:25 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Danny C.]
bobcflatpicker Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3352
Loc: WV, USA
Danny,

I thought I’d throw my 2 cents in on this after the gurus have weighed in. (Most of these other guys know a lot more about this than I do).

I know you’re trying to keep the amount of equipment down, but I would think you would WANT to have a small mixer sitting next to your laptop so you could tweak your levels as needed, even if you didn’t need a volume boost. The added benefit is being able to get that powered mixer out of your way and out of your line of sight. I would feel “crowded” if I had that powered mixer within reach, but I’d feel limited if I didn’t have a small mixer next to the laptop so I’d have some control over the levels.

JMHO.
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................................
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#126162 - 08/24/11 02:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: bobcflatpicker]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6464
Loc: South Louisiana
Bob,

Points well taken but with my setup the Power Mixer fits (out of site from my audience) in the same rack on wheels on which my laptop sits. But for other reasons mentioned by you and others within this thread I may be small mixer shopping this weekend.

Later,
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#126163 - 08/24/11 02:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Danny C.]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7207
OK so you are resigned to a mixer.I'll help you here.
On sale. Great gear. Soundcraft Mixer
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
http://wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.html

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#126164 - 08/24/11 03:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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#126165 - 08/24/11 03:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: MusicStudent]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18759
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
How is yours holding up Jazzmandan? I had the older model (pre-xenyx) 602 and we beat that thing up for ten years before it finally died from being dropped one too many times. The power connector broke on the back. Barry said "wonder what it will cost to fix it?" I laughed knowing a newer one was only $50!
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#126166 - 08/24/11 03:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: silvertones]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

I'm not comparing an old Lenovo to a new Lenovo. I'm comparing HIS new Lenovo to MY new Lenovo with the same soundcard.This is why I persist on finding him the solution to his problem and not just a solution to the symptom.
As far as PA there was some concern he wasn't using a mixer to begin with.




All you really know here is that the two different models use the same soundcard drivers and thus ID the internal soundcards as the same.

However - the big BUT - is the output AF power amplifier design. This is typically a completely different circuit than that of the sound device. Apparently the designers did not specify the laptop's power amp to have enough gain to it. Might have to do with the current Green fad, may be some other completely different reason, though. At any rate, the thing ain't makin' the grade, whether jacked into his PA or even just trying to power its own internal speakers.

--Mac
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#126167 - 08/24/11 03:35 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Danny C.]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Danny--

Check out this thread, slightly different lenovo model, but same problem, apparently this fellow was able to solve it by removing the built in equalizer software, uninstalling the included driver and then letting Windows install a generic driver...

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-Edg...ork/td-p/412541

--Mac
_________________________
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#126168 - 08/24/11 03:36 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Internal Soundcard Volume Adjustments???? [Re: Mac]
GDaddy Offline
Expert

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
As primarily an "eclectic" guitarist (like you, JAZZMANDAN?),
I love the boost and classical guitar "sounds" I can get out
of my L.R. Baggs Para-Acoustic...with a D.I. out into any of
my amps..A Fender Keyboard or a Behringer Keyboard or a Behringer
Bass Amp. You're probably familiar with this for its great boost.

Of course my fav for final mixdown is the ol' Behringer 9024!

_________________________
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
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