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#126652 - 09/08/11 07:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: rockstar_not]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7454
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

My personal feeling on this is the problem for Gibson was the falsification of the consignor's final delivery address. That looks bad. If the consignor was correctly listed as Gibson Guitars this may not have been so serious. Hopefully the feds decide quickly a wrist slap is appropriate, no trial, the lesson is taught and Gibson can get back to work making fine guitars.





Let's assume for a second that the whole problem is the falsification of records.

Does it make sense that they would storm the company with weapons over paperwork ?
I'd expect a nasty letter from a hundred lawyers, some time to respond etc.

Telling them they can't ship parts until its resolved, (but making no effort to start the resolution process by filing formal charges) really does sound like its entirely punitive.

The only other thing that even remotely makes sense is if there were suspicions that wood wasn't the only thing being brought into the country. (suspicion of drug smuggling would explain the guns and the seizure of product for testing)

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#126653 - 09/08/11 10:10 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Pat Marr]
rubberball103 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 297
Loc: NW corner of S. Nowhere
Gestapo.
_________________________
- Bud

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#126654 - 09/08/11 02:03 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: rubberball103]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6371
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Dude. Gestapo? Really? You have no idea who they were or what they did to people.

Start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo

Don't use names like that unless you're talking about other secret police groups who show up at your house in the middle of the night, pull you outside, line you up against the wall and kill you. That's either before or after they've tortured you in unspeakable ways and I'm not talking about waterboarding.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#126655 - 09/08/11 02:31 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: jazzmammal]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3350
Loc: WV, USA
Looks like Obama will have an additional audience member to hear his speech on job creation tonight.

Quote:

WASHINGTON -- Gibson Guitar CEO Henry Juszkiewicz will be U.S. Rep. Marsha Blackburn's guest at President Barack Obama's speech on job creation tonight to a joint session of Congress, her office announced Wednesday.

Blackburn, a Tennessee Republican whose district includes parts of east Shelby County, did not say she found fault with the raids in the statement released Wednesday.

But she did say: "Maybe if the president spent more time finding real solutions to empowering small-business owners and less time hindering businesses like Gibson, we'd see more new jobs being created."




http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/sep/08/gibson-guitar-ceo-be-rep-marsha-blackburns-guest-o/

This probably isn’t the kind of attention he was wanting for his speech on jobs.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#126656 - 09/08/11 02:59 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: jazzmammal]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3350
Loc: WV, USA
If you’d like to see one of the “sawn logs” in question, check out the 2:21 second video inside the Gibson plant at top left in this article.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/07/does-white-house-want-to-ship-jobs-overseas/

A couple of key paragraphs in the article:

Quote:

What’s most puzzling about this case is that India is perfectly happy to ship the fingerboard ‘blanks’ to the United States. In a letter dated July 13, the deputy director general of foreign trade for India confirmed that “fingerboards made of rosewood and ebony is (sic) freely exportable.”
………………………………….
There was a discrepancy in the import of this latest shipment of wood. It was listed with an improper tariff code, which the importer, Luthiers Mercantile International of Windsor, Calif., claimed was a clerical error by a junior employee and tried to clear up. But rather than talk to the importer and Gibson about it, the Justice Department dispatched U.S. Fish and Wildlife and DHS agents to raid the Gibson compounds.




……………………………………………..

Bob, I agree with you on the “gestapo” remark. Terms like Gestapo, Nazi and even racist get thrown around too often with little or no regard to what they actually mean.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#126657 - 09/08/11 05:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: bobcflatpicker]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
In my view, if a group of armed men bust through the doors and take away my ability to make a living, not much difference there, actually.

What's that in our 6th Amendment about the right to a speedy trial again?

I also seem to be recalling some other points about the rights to search and seizure...


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#126658 - 09/08/11 06:06 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Mac]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6371
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
That's exactly what probable cause is all about, Mac. Authorities cannot simply decide on their own to raid and seize your proberty. We have an independent judiciary in this country. They have to go to a judge first and convince him there's enough evidence to warrant a search and seizure. Hence the term "search warrant". Federal judges don't sign off on those lightly or at least they're not supposed to.

Judges certainly can have different opinions though. A different judge may have decided the evidence wasn't strong enough to sign the search warrant. Look at what happened today. The Appeals court in Virgina threw out Virginia's case against Obamacare so now it's 2 and 2 in Appeals. A lot of so called expert commentators were really looking forward to this case putting a big slam dunk on Obamacare but it didn't happen.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#126659 - 09/08/11 09:32 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: jazzmammal]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Today's news is just yet another case of, "It ain't over 'til its over"

That particular issue is just slowly winding its way up to the Supreme Court.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#126660 - 09/09/11 10:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Mac]
rubberball103 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 297
Loc: NW corner of S. Nowhere
American police don't need probable cause or warrents anymore. You can be stopped in your car and searched for no reason at all. If you happen to be carrying a fair amount of cash, you can be arrested as a drug dealer. It will likely be dropped but you'll spend time in jail and money on a lawyer. You can stopped and asked for an ID and taken to jail if you don't have one or feel like showing it.

The America we learned about in school has been gone since the Raygun era.
_________________________
- Bud

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#126661 - 09/09/11 04:43 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: rubberball103]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6371
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Bud, you're completely wrong. You're reading or listening to the wrong people I think. Didn't you follow the Arizona immigration law thing? That's exactly what that law is all about, the cops CANNOT just stop a car for no reason and then ask for ID's. You also can't be arrested just because you happen to have some cash on you no matter now much. Cash and crack yeah, cash and an unregistered gun, sure but not just cash alone. Some cops will cross the line, we all know that but the way you're writing it is they're allowed to do these things. No, they're not.

And Mac, I totally agree with you I can't wait for the Supreme Court to hear that case. My worry is the admin wants to delay that as long as possible hoping one of the conservative justices either dies or has to retire so he an appoint another lib and swing it his way.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#126662 - 09/09/11 06:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: jazzmammal]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Look. If you are on the street and some cop wants to arrest you for *any* reason, tha officer is at the time issuing a lawful order. I don't attempt to hold court on the street. Even and especially when I know that the police are out of line.

Here's what I do and say.

First, I cooperate as best as possible.

Second, (and many should memorize this sentence) I look at said officer and say, "Well, you do what you think you have to do, but I want you to know that I WILL conTEST it."

Notice the way to say the word, "contest". With the emphasis on the last syllable. Like a lawyer would say the word.

Having been on both sides of the law, I can tell you that the idea of arresting someone who might be a lawyer or a legal technician on a trumped up charge is something the average intelligent officer of the law will avoid.

Or, as we used to say back in my days on the police force in traffic division, "The reason our badges are round and don't have points on them like the Sheriff's badges is because our badges don't hurt half as bad when a judge and two lawyers shove it up yer butt."

People who want to settle things on the spot and in a hurry just don't understand how our system of laws works. Patience grasshopper. When wronged, settle it in the courtroom, where the judge is more likely to be an elected official who looks on you as a citizen, a constituent - and a vote on election day. Have your case ready, present it clearly, logically and once. With zero histrionics.

This is why arguing about a case that has not yet gone to court is just noise.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#126663 - 09/09/11 08:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Mac]
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5458
Loc: Chicago
Quote:



What's that in our 6th Amendment about the right to a speedy trial again?

--Mac




OK, you finally got my attention. Speedy trial - ya then a continuance, then another trial and another continuace and over and over, this crap goes on for years. It is some kind of frickin game the system is playing to screw with ya. And the lawyers jsut bleed you dry. But don't get me goin, you think this Gibson Owner can go on a rant!....

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#126664 - 09/10/11 05:43 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Mac]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6371
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Quote:

People who want to settle things on the spot and in a hurry just don't understand how our system of laws works. Patience grasshopper. When wronged, settle it in the courtroom, where the judge is more likely to be an elected official who looks on you as a citizen, a constituent - and a vote on election day. Have your case ready, present it clearly, logically and once. With zero histrionics.




100% correct Mac. I can't comment on the incidents just talked about here but if you give a cop any kind of attitude at all, it ain't gonna be pretty. Like everyone else who hasn't been living in a cave the last 40 years, I've had my share of "contacts" with the cops and never a problem even including one incident I talked about here last year where I was at some chicks house back in the 70's at 4 in the morning and the place was raided by the DEA and local cops as part of the largest drug bust in the Northwest tristate area up to that time. I was completely innocent, just met the girl, knew nothing about her activities. I had to be cool, no attitude at all, talked about my being an Air Force veteran with a Top Secret security clearance, all that stuff and I was let go, no problems. I have a way of kinda sorta giving the impression I know people (which I don't) without being blatant about it.

Trust me one wrong step, one wrong word out of my mouth and I could be getting out on probation right about now assuming I lived that long. There were other less serious incidents like that infamous Ohio speed trap on the Interstate around 3am. I got out of that one with a warning, same deal. Just be nice, act like I'm one of them, I appreciate all they do, etc etc. You give a big man with a gun at 3am who's already on edge any slight reason at all and you're going to spend 48 hours in jail just for giggles.

Just be cool and of course being not guilty helps too. If they find some **** on you, all bets are off.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#126665 - 09/11/11 08:03 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: jazzmammal]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18591
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
No officer I don't have any asterisks on me, why do you ask?

_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#126666 - 09/11/11 08:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: rharv]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7454
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
this picture gives the phrase "dog tired" new meaning

heh
Bob, is that your dog?
if so, is his forum name ARFHARV?

(I think everything should be HIS fault from now on)

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PG Music News
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