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#131681 - 10/22/11 08:06 AM [Off-Topic] MOTU
eddie1261 Online   content
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Anybody here used any of the MOTU products? Particularly interested in getting input on the 2408 interface. I am thinking about getting a couple of them so I can bring the stuff out of Real Band and mix it on a real mixer instead of the mixer inside of Real Band. I like sliders rather than mouse movements.

The main question for me is about moving tracks to Sonar. I appear to do it correctly when I drag and drop each track from Real Band into Sonar tracks but somehow I manage to get all the tracks combined into the first Sonar track. I click the plug in button, drag track 1, and it takes everything. I have to be missing a step somewhere.
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#131682 - 10/22/11 10:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: eddie1261]
Tommyc Offline
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I wonder if you select all tracks in Sonar if that might work ? Dough-no never tried it .

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#131683 - 10/22/11 10:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Tommyc]
Matt Finley Online   content
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I'm not at my BIAB computer now, but there is a setting in the Drag n Drop options for this. It is not determined by SONAR.
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#131684 - 10/22/11 10:35 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Matt Finley]
Robh Offline
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Eddie i am thinking, you are over thinking stuff. If you want to mix and master in Sonar, just export all the RB tracks as wave files it automatically opens a folder and deposits the tracks in that folder named after the song.

I have a few questions though.

First off what is it you want to do in Sonar that you can't do in RB?

Secondly when you say you want to mix with a external mixer instead of a mouse type on screen mixer, i ask why?

Third, Are you wanting to mix in Sonar, or master?

Forth, what kind of interface are you using to record into RB now?


The reason for these questions is to help you get where you want to go. The motu unit also has an internal mixer software applet, if you want to mix the software outside on a real hardware mixer you need something that acts like a controller. Something that moves the faders in both RB, and Sonar when you move the real faders on the unit.
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#131685 - 10/22/11 10:37 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Matt Finley]
Mac Offline
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Quote:

I'm not at my BIAB computer now, but there is a setting in the Drag n Drop options for this. It is not determined by SONAR.




Pay attention to what Matt has said up there...


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#131686 - 10/22/11 10:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Mac]
Robh Offline
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Something like this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/m-audio-projectmix-i-o

But consider what you really NEED, not just want. I constantly mull over really cool items, but what i really need is different. I will never track a full band at a show. I will have a couple friends over to play and lay down a few tracks. So instead of buying a $2,000 mixer rig i got the $99 stupid deal Tascam US 800 and guess what i have 8 ins more than i will need.

One thing i learned about myself, is that i want to keep adding software and gear, while i have not mastered the ones i have yet. I bet you have not reached the apex with RB. There is very little you can't do right there in RB. In the last year i have bought Multitrackstudio 6.41 Reaper 4.1, Sonar X1 essentials, and Melodyne. I did not need all that, as i can do anything i want in RB. Sure RB does not have as good of an automation setup. but my old MTS version 5 did. Anything i wanted that RB lacked was there.

Problem is that neither Sonar, MTS, or Reaper can do what RB does, So it makes more sense to use RB, and really learn all that it can do first.

Just a few of my musing thoughts.
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#131687 - 10/22/11 10:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Robh]
Robh Offline
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#131688 - 10/22/11 10:57 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Robh]
silvertones Offline
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Eddie,
I know you are getting comments about"why do you want to mix on a console?" This is becoming more & more popular with a lot of people. Not only for the ability to use faders but the ability to add in a little of the analog warmth before sending the mix back into the computer as a stereo track. So I say keep on that way if you like the results.
As far as MOTU. No personal experience however they were always leaders in the interface market.
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#131689 - 10/22/11 03:42 PM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Robh]
eddie1261 Online   content
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Quote:

First off what is it you want to do in Sonar that you can't do in RB?



I don't know if, after changing the interface from the M-Audio Fast Track to the internal PCI card that works with the MOTU if Real Band will send me out 8 individual tracka. How I would make changes in track assignment on audio tracks to tell it which channel it will be controlled by. I know I can do it with Sonar. My trumpet player does it all the time. He uses Sonar and 2 MOTU 2048's and sends back out into his 32 channel mixer to mix there rather than on the screen.

Quote:

Secondly when you say you want to mix with a external mixer instead of a mouse type on screen mixer, i ask why?



Mainly the feel of using real sliders rather than grabbing and sliding tiny control buttons with a mouse, and having to do them one at a time. With sliders I can have my fingers on 8 channels at once.

Quote:

Third, Are you wanting to mix in Sonar, or master?



Best answer is yes. Comedic answer is "I want to be the master of my mix."

Quote:

Fourth, what kind of interface are you using to record into RB now?



Right now I use an M-Audio Fast Track Pro that is fed by my Mackie mixer for when I record supporting instruments and vocals into Real Band.

Quote:

The reason for these questions is to help you get where you want to go. The motu unit also has an internal mixer software applet, if you want to mix the software outside on a real hardware mixer you need something that acts like a controller. Something that moves the faders in both RB, and Sonar when you move the real faders on the unit.



Don't my fingers move the faders?

Here is what I have seen and done and liked it a lot.

Our trumpet guy has a 24 track mobile studio that he takes out and records with. He came to a rehearsal for my aborted Stevie Nicks trib band last year. He recorded 5 songs. He sent me a DVD of WAV files. I brought them home and imported them into my Sonar and mixed them the way my ear said was right.

Then I went to his house. With the same stuff he recorded on his rig, I was able to sit down at his console and mix again with my hands on a mixing board. That just "felt" better. I had all the drums under my fingers at once and could close my eyes and move the sliders until I heard what I wanted. The same with 4 vocal mics, and the bass/guitar/keys. I can't do that with a mouse. I have to do one track at a time, and I don't like that much. It may just be the old school in me, but I like a mixer. I can loop my digital reverbs into that mix and dump that product to a new file when I have it right (which is what I assume what you meant by mastering - making that finished product.) and move on to the next one.

Now, after exporting all tracks to WAV, importing each track to Sonar, how do I get rid of the "stuttering" that came out when I hit play? I remember this topic but have no idea what the thread name was to search for it.



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Edited by eddie1261 (10/22/11 03:44 PM)
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#131690 - 10/22/11 04:10 PM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: eddie1261]
rharv Offline
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RB will use the 8 outs if the device allows it. I do it often with 1010lt.

Trick is to enable the ports in the audio options area by highliting them, then you can right click each track and tell it which port (output) you want it sent out on. Make sure your main output stays at the top as the default, then you can assign tracks to other outputs individually.

You can even set up subgroups inside RB (bottom right of mixer panel) and group instruments to certain outputs. I've done drums this way; send all 8 drum mics to the stereo subgroup so once I have volume/panning of individual drums balanced I can use the subgroup to balance the volume of the whole set to the rest of the mix without having to reset everything..
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#131691 - 10/22/11 04:35 PM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: rharv]
Mac Offline
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What Ed needs right now is a good multiple-channel capable soundcard. (And, of course, a mixer that has the separate channel "insert" capability required.)

Rather than stacking two to get the number of needed channels, I would recommend looking into a single solution that has the requisite number of separate channels available. The M-Audio Delta 1010 series does, and is the price leader. We also know that for the most part it works and plays well with the already mentioned softwares and ahs good driver support.


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#131692 - 10/22/11 04:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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Absolutely the Delta 1010. I had one of these and can defiantly vouch.
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#131693 - 10/22/11 04:51 PM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Mac]
eddie1261 Online   content
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Quote:

What Ed needs right now is a good multiple-channel capable soundcard. (And, of course, a mixer that has the separate channel "insert" capability required.)




Okay, now I am confused yet again. The way you worded that, it sounds like you meant a sound card with 8 outs on the back of an actual card that goes into a PCI slot. That would make the thing like 12 inches wide, which of course wouldn't fit into a computer case, so it's either an outboard or an inboard with a breakout box. I thought that (breakout box) was the concept of the MOTU unit, a sound card that feeds it's own flavor of firewire into the rack piece which wil mux 8 into 1 going in and 1 into 8 coming out.

And when I hear the word "insert", I think of the row of 1'4" jacks on a mixer that accepts 1/4" stereo plus that loop an effect. Were you using it that way, or did you mean inputs like where I plug in my keyboards?

Quote:

Rather than stacking two to get the number of needed channels, I would recommend looking into a single solution that has the requisite number of separate channels available. The M-Audio Delta 1010 series does, and is the price leader. We also know that for the most part it works and plays well with the already mentioned softwares and has good driver support.




I will look at that also, but when I can buy MOTU's for $100 or less, it's hard to pass up.
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#131694 - 10/22/11 05:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: eddie1261]
eddie1261 Online   content
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Okay update on "dropping" to Sonar. I found no setting to let me use the "drop" function that way it worked in BIAB. I saw the drop button turn green once but there was no activity and no tracks were made available to move to Sonar. I used to start that plug in and then just drag the track from the BIAB screen onto an empty track in Sonar and it moved over. I ended up exporting each track to WAV and imported them into Sonar and they are all there. All 8 of them.

However, that stuttering issue just won't go away. I tried everything I know. I made sure to close one program before running the other so two programs were not fighting over the sound hardware. After importing tracks I shut both programs down and reopened Sonar. Still stuttered. Restarted the computer. Still stuttered. There is no setting in Sonar like there is on the Real Band options panel to play with buffers, so at that point I knew of no other way to play with that, and got to the point where I took the attitude "and why should/would I have to when it plays fine in Real Band? It's the same tracks, same data, etc...."

And now I have to go run sound so I can't play any more with it today. And tomorrow is a morning or rehearsal and then the Browns game, and then a computer side job..... so I'll get back to this maybe Sunday night, but more likely Monday.

Thanks for the help everyone has offered so far. The learning continues.....
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#131695 - 10/22/11 06:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: eddie1261]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Eddie, I'm sorry you're having trouble.

SONAR does have adjustments to help with stuttering, but we need the standard info to be able to help you find them. It may be in other posts, but would you mind repeating which SONAR version you have, and give some details about your hardware? You will want to find your soundcard's control panel and play with the buffer settings, regardless of whether audio works in other programs.

You should also report the results of the DPC Latency Checker, to make sure you don't have some other conflict preventing your system from handling audio. SONAR is more sensitive to these conflicts than any other software I use.

As far as BIAB Drag n Drop into SONAR, what you are doing works, but you are making it harder than it needs to be. Try this:

• Click on the DAW Plugin icon

• Select 'Options for DAW Plugins'

• Make sure the first, third and fourth checkboxes are checked. Depending on how you handle MIDI, you might also want that second box checked, but that's not relevant to your problem.

• Also in that dialog box, make sure the Drag Audio pull-down says 'WAV'.

• Then, all you have to do is drag the Combo button into an empty SONAR project, and sit back and watch it work. Be patient, and observe the track names as they alternate changing color.

• The only thing I adjust after that is to check the tempo, and perhaps rename the tracks to get rid of the BIAB-generated names.
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#131696 - 10/22/11 08:17 PM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: eddie1261]
Mac Offline
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Quote:

...That would make the thing like 12 inches wide, which of course wouldn't fit into a computer case, so it's either...




You wouldn't have half the problems you do if you could stop with the assumptions and simply do a websearch for the card and see how that is handled...
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#131697 - 10/23/11 04:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Matt Finley]
eddie1261 Online   content
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I'll give you what I can right now but it's almost 4am and I just got home from a sound gig.

Quote:

SONAR does have adjustments to help with stuttering, but we need the standard info to be able to help you find them. It may be in other posts, but would you mind repeating which SONAR version you have, and give some details about your hardware? You will want to find your soundcard's control panel and play with the buffer settings, regardless of whether audio works in other programs.




I have Sonar Producer 7.0.2. The latest updates/patches all applied. The sound card is the exact same thing I use for BIAB. Now what I DON'T know is when I look at the sound card setting inside of BIAB/RB, are those settings specific to the software, meaning that it is different when running BIAB/RB or other software. I can only guess that the settings are "the settings', that BIAB doesn't make temporary changes to the sound card and then it reverts to something else when I close the program. I use an M-Audio Fast Track Pro. Also note that if write into Sonar, it's fine.

Now your reply twice said BIAB. I am using Real Band. Would knowing that have changed your reply any?

Quote:

Try this:

• Select 'Options for DAW Plugins'
• Make sure the first, third and fourth checkboxes are checked. Depending on how you handle MIDI, you might also want that second box checked, but that's not relevant to your problem.
• Click on the DAW Plugin icon
• Also in that dialog box, make sure the Drag Audio pull-down says 'WAV'.
• Then, all you have to do is drag the Combo button into an empty SONAR project, and sit back and watch it work. Be patient, and observe the track names as they alternate changing color.





My choices under that pulldown were "WAV file or WFM file". No check boxes, etc.... That is in Real Band. I remember seeing this in BIAB, and when I did it, it blended all the tracks into Sonar track 1.

@Mac, I was trying to be humorous in describing a 12 inch PCI card, which was so obviously ridiculous I don't understand why it even evoked a response. If you noted the next line acknowledged that there was likely some kind of breakout box, which there is.
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I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#131698 - 10/23/11 10:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: eddie1261]
Mac Offline
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Gotcha.


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#131699 - 10/23/11 11:08 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Mac]
Matt Finley Online   content
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I have described how you can fix the problem you encountered in BIAB. As for RealBand, I can't help you.
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#131700 - 10/23/11 11:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: MOTU [Re: Mac]
Robh Offline
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I have3 never tried it, but don't mackie boards have inserts that can be setup as feeds? If so then if you daisy chained two M-Audio 1010 deltas, you could ahve 16 channels in and out?
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