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#132110 - 10/29/11 01:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: MusicStudent]
silvertones Offline
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It's a separate midi channel BUT It's somehow tied to the Soloist track even though it's on a different midi channel.Open a song that doesn't have any RTs on the Soloist track and you'll hear the output chords. Now mute the soloist track and they'll turn off. This was fine in the midi days but now for some reason if you have any RTs, as you do, on the soloist track it also disables midi output from the "output Chords" feature. This is a real killer.Because of this there is no work around except not using the Soloist track for any RTs and to me that's not an option at all.
Now there might be a work around but I don't have what I need to test this.
The melody track is capable of having 16 different midi parts on it all assigned to 16 different midi channels.I'm guess that you only use the midi part on the melody channel so that you have the notation to read. If you could get a keyborard or some other way generate the chords on that melody track as well set to channel 9 then that would drive the VLT.Set the volume to 1 as the VLT only needs the note data. This way you won't hear the chords. There may be a way to auto generate this part as well.
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#132111 - 10/29/11 01:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
silvertones Offline
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Yep. Could be done with a keyboard. Just record on the melody track and make sure overdub is selected. When you stop it asks what channel you want this part on. You'd set it to the same channel that the VLT is set to listen on.
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#132112 - 10/29/11 02:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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Quote:

Open a song that doesn't have any RTs on the Soloist track and you'll hear the output chords. Now mute the soloist track and they'll turn off.




Confirmed, with my external synth! Just as you say. I can place the outputchords on any open channel, but muting soloist track, which is supposed to be on Midi Channel 8, kill all chord output.

Now let me study and ponder the rest of your messaage, and exatly what this all means.
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#132113 - 10/29/11 02:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
silvertones Offline
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OK I found a way. Step by step. If you want to.
1.open the song in BIAB
2.open the same song in RB
3.In RB set the filter for styles to only show midi styles.
4.Change the style in RB to a jazz style that has piano or guitar.
5. Right click on an empty track in RB & choose Generate midi track/piano or guitar.
6.Right click on that track and choose select Whole Track
7.Right click again and set the midi channel of this track to 9
8.Right click again and choose copy
9. now move over to BIAB
10.set: melody/track type/multi
11.Then go to melody/edit melody track/Import melody from clipboard
12. make sure only 9 is checked & that merge is checked.
13. click OK.You'll now see you have imported that midi piano or guitar track.
14 click on the green SEQ button in BIAB/sequencer on melody track.
You'll see your original melody on channel usually 1 and the track you imported on 9.
THIS WILL WORK. Lot of steps but not once you get the hang of it. Goes fast.
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#132114 - 10/29/11 05:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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John, my head is still spinning a little so it will take me some time to fully comprehend what you have done here. This borders on a Masters Class in BIAB. Thank you very much for your efforts on my behalf. I hope others have enjoyed the ride and learned something along the way as I have.

Dan
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#132115 - 10/29/11 05:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: MusicStudent]
John Conley Offline
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You can just click the midi monitor in band in a box and set the filter to the channel you want to see on your harmonizer. On mine you basically get triads of notes as groups, or you can set the option for more complex output.

At least with the midi monitor you can confirm the fact that x and y were sent on the midi channel of your choice.

I usually use all RealTracks to test, and you then see the only midi as set gs or gm at the start type of thing.

Not complicated, but I must say you can uncomplicate the whole she bang by using an external midi module set on channel 1 and then use 5 for solo channel and the harmonizer. That way you can embed changes to your vocal parts in the solo channel.
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#132116 - 10/29/11 05:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: John Conley]
silvertones Offline
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Quote:

You can just click the midi monitor in band in a box and set the filter to the channel you want to see on your harmonizer. On mine you basically get triads of notes as groups, or you can set the option for more complex output.

At least with the midi monitor you can confirm the fact that x and y were sent on the midi channel of your choice.

I usually use all RealTracks to test, and you then see the only midi as set gs or gm at the start type of thing.

Not complicated, but I must say you can uncomplicate the whole she bang by using an external midi module set on channel 1 and then use 5 for solo channel and the harmonizer. That way you can embed changes to your vocal parts in the solo channel.




John,
His tunes all have Real Track solos on the soloist track and this ,for some reason, disables the ability of the "output chords" feature. That's the whole issue at this point.
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#132117 - 10/29/11 05:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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Quote:


... Real Track solos on the soloist track and this ,for some reason, disables the ability of the "output chords" feature. That's the whole issue at this point.




There is going to be a test later on this material so be sure to study up...
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#132118 - 10/29/11 05:59 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
silvertones Offline
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Dan,
What I'm doing is getting a midi guitar or piano part on the melody track that will send chords to the VLT in lieu of the "output chords" feature that doesn't work when you have a RT on the Soloist track..
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#132119 - 10/29/11 06:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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Quote:

Dan,
What I'm doing is getting a midi guitar or piano part on the melody track that will send chords to the VLT in lieu of the "output chords" feature that doesn't work when you have a RT on the Soloist track..




But what will happen to the song melody, which is on the melody track? Wait, I already was not using that midi melody since I had to disable Dx\Vst. So after I render the midi melody to wav I have no need for that content. So I am trying to understand how we can have multiple channels (chords and melody) on one track?? I assume the two have been merged and now chords and melody will go silently to the VLT - is that right?

Otherwise,

Looks like the outputchords feature can work - but since it needs the Soloist track i have to remove all RT's from the soloist track. As long as nothing is on the Soloist track and it is unmuted, and all other tracks are RTs (no DXi)- then things appear to be working. This may be doable for me, I don't sing every song and not every song has a RT on the soloist track and I can render melodies if I want to hear them.

I think the answer is here somewhere John, my new understandings will help me work it out yet.
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#132120 - 10/29/11 07:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: MusicStudent]
silvertones Offline
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The melody and Soloist tracks can have 16 parts midi all on separate channels. So once you do what I layed out you'd still have the original melody on one midi channel and that other midi part on channel 9.
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#132121 - 10/29/11 08:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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Here is my understanding about the instrucions - it is my process to write things out which I am trying to comprehend.

Each of the six (6) BIAB Instrument tracks (Piano, Guitar, Bass, Strings, Melody. Soloist) can access\use (better word is share) 16 channels of data, But it is not 16x6 since only a total of 16 channels are available.

BIAB assigns a specific single channel to each of the six tracks (melody is channel 4, piano in channel 3, bass is channel 2...) this permits each channel to be assigned a specific GM patch for a specific sound.

John is suggesting I place in the melody track - multiple channels. The patch assignment is still limited to what is assigned to each of the 16 channels. So channel 2 on the Melody track (which contains the melody notes) is asigned a piano patch/sound, then if I also place the chords on the melody track, but on a different channel they will sound like what ever sound is assigned to that channel. For example, if the chords where placed on the melody track on channel 2, they would sound like a bass. Since channel 9 is not a preassigned BIAB channel I can use it and assign any patch I want, but since I am using the chords only to drive the VLT perhaps i don't even need to assing it a patch?

While each of the standard BIAB tracks are single channel (at least as I have ever understood), it appears that RB will allow me to create a multichannel track, combining melody and chords on two channels of a single track.

Does that sound right so far?? I need to move forward but want to be sure this is correct up to this point.

By the way , I am trying to use the Piano roll window in BIAB to understand all this.
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#132122 - 10/29/11 09:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: MusicStudent]
MusicStudent Offline
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By the way if you have read along through this and the previous thread, and especially you John. I am heading out to the Gilmer In;, corner of Gilmer Rd and Old McHenry Rd in Mundeline Il. Stop in over the next couple hours, mention this thread and drinks are on me.

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#132123 - 10/30/11 07:51 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: MusicStudent]
silvertones Offline
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You are basicly correct except all the tracks in BIAB can be set to use any one of 16 channels. They can be change BTW in prefs/midi channels.Each track can only use one channel EXCEPT the Melody track & Soloist. They CAN use all 16 channels at once.If you follow my process you will end up with 2 midi tracks on the Melody track:
1. your original melody line that will be re-channeled to channel 1. Which is fine & can be changed.
2. The chords that you created in RB and imported over BIAB on channel 9

Now you'll be sending chords via BIAB and won't need to use RB live.

BTW I've done a similar process with actually more steps in order to use my harmonizer. I did it to 200 songs as I sing on all. In fact I had to do it twice as the first time I didn't care for the results. I had used a guitar RT. Kept getting weird chords. I changed to using a self made, with Pat Marr's template, a piano style playing in root position that I then convert to audio to drive my harmonizer.
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#132124 - 10/30/11 08:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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John, you've been wonderful. thanks for all you time in helping me out.
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#132125 - 10/30/11 08:40 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: MusicStudent]
silvertones Offline
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Quote:

John, you've been wonderful. thanks for all you time in helping me out.




You are more then welcome. My goal is to see you be able to use your harmonizer with BIAB. I hope you haven't given up.
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#132126 - 10/30/11 10:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: MusicStudent]
Mac Offline
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Check this;

In the NOTATION view, hit the Opts button, then take a look at the upper left dropdown setting for the guitar.

If that is set to MULTICHANNEL for printing of TAB, etc, then it may just be the reason the Melody track is muting more than one MIDI channel.


--Mac
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#132127 - 10/30/11 05:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: Mac]
MusicStudent Offline
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Quote:

Check this;
In the NOTATION view, hit the Opts button, then take a look at the upper left dropdown setting for the guitar.
If that is set to MULTICHANNEL for printing of TAB, etc, then it may just be the reason the Melody track is muting more than one MIDI channel.
--Mac




Nothing set to multichannel. See Follow up Question on OutputChrods feature.

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#132128 - 10/31/11 02:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: MusicStudent]
silvertones Offline
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FWIW
Dan,
I've been doing some experimenting for my own purpose.I have the Helicon GXT that listens to guitar chords. I don't play guitar so I feed it a seperate track of piano that comes out of the internal sound card. The rest of the band comes out of my KX card. Looking for a means to make a real small rig I set everything to come out of the internal card and eliminated the KX card.Using the AUX send on my board I sent a mix of the whole band to the GXT to see if it could track harmonies with the whole band feeding it.
IT WORKED PERFECTLY.
Dan send a mix to your VLT as if it were a guitar. It'll work fine.No fixing songs or anything.
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#132129 - 10/31/11 03:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
MusicStudent Offline
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But John, that sounds just too simple. Where the stress and agony that we need in order to pay our dues to play the blues.

The VLT is very versitile. I was aware I could send Midi, or play live or send an audio signal (as you have suggested). I guess I just thought that the machine would perform better if feed only the appropirate 1,3, 5,7 . Let me give it a try and i'll let you know how it works for me.

But, I still want things fixed in OutputChords. Workarounds are one thing, but I can not longer convince my wife we don't have to fix the front day entry way because we can always use the back door.
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