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#13281 - 02/06/09 04:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: maiki]
Beowulf Kingsley Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Michigan, USA
I'll check out Bandstand...I've had mixed feelings about Native Instruments - I love their products but it seems if anything goes wrong their aftermarket support is negligible at best (at least in my experience). Still, it bears looking at, as I do have and use other software of theirs and it's always sounded excellent. At this point I've downloaded Forte (no reason not to) and it is a significant improvement from the Soundcanvas, although not at the level that something like the Ketron can produce. I still like the ease of using a softsynth though, I'm trying to minimise the cables in my life if possible! There's enough spegetti in the studio as it is.

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#13282 - 02/07/09 03:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Beowulf Kingsley]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6477
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Quote:

I still like the ease of using a softsynth though, I'm trying to minimise the cables in my life if possible! There's enough spegetti in the studio as it is.




You hit it right on the head. Hardware has a lot of advantages but desktop clutter is not one of them plus having to play your opus in real time to record it. A five minute tune takes five minutes to record while software can render it in about 20 seconds. I like that. The whole reason more and more powerful softsynths were created was to bypass all that and I'm a believer but with Biab, it's a pain because it only has one midi output port so you can only use one softsynth. That means it has to have all the instruments. You can't use a killer drum module just for drums, another just for guitar, etc. I use Forte exclusively in Biab because it sounds good enough to not hurt my ears while I put a tune together, then the whole thing goes into Real Band although many times lately I'm using just Real Band because it does about 90% of what Biab does anyway with a lot more flexibility.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#13283 - 02/07/09 05:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: jazzmammal]
LynB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/00
Posts: 3161
Loc: Barton-on-Sea,Hants,UK
Hi maiki,

I use both Papelmedia and the Forte GM sets but generally in PTW/RealBand and via VSampler so that both sets are immediately available, I just need to change the LSB code between 0 and 1 to switch instrument patches from one set to the other. In comparison, some patches are better in Forte and others in Papel. As examples: in my view, Patch 33 Acoustic Bass is better in Forte while Patch 55 plus alternative voices are much better in Papel. Both are better than than the VSC DXi but I choose to use the VSC synth in BIAB for simplicity while in PTW/RB I have the freedom to mix and match sounds from a number of different sources.

Lyn

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#13284 - 02/07/09 09:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: LynB]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Absolute quality of sound, zero latency, always works, no pops or clicks, no sudden surprises or be upset about a couple or three cables extra and having to wait a whole five minutes...


I'll go with the quality of sound, etc. man.



--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#13285 - 02/07/09 11:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Mac]
jcspro40 Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 828
Loc: Ohio-USA
I have heard Bandstand in BB 2008.5 and thought it.....stunk. The balance of the instruments were off, and I thought that the free Sound Site Album Bank or Massive thru SFZ sounded more balanced.

Of course this is all YMMV & IMHO
_________________________
Custom Core2Quad 3.2Ghz, 8gb memory, 1gb nVidia dual monitor card, 1tb OS HDD, 2 2gb Internal HDD, 8tb External HDD, dual LG 27" Monitors, Win7 x64 Ultimate, BiaB/RB 2017, Reaper 4.75, Mixbus 32C, IK Multimedia / iZotope / Plug & Mix VST-VSTi Collections

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#13286 - 02/07/09 11:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: jcspro40]
dburns Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 88
Loc: Lowell, MA
Like most folks here, I've been through the hardware vs. software choices. I think I've tried just about everything.

I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.

Bandstand is NOT supported at all by NI any more (not that it was from the start). So, even though I like it and wouldn't recommend against buying it (if you can find it for less than $100), beware. You're on your own.

One thing you might try is to use the free softsynth in BB to sketch out a song, then after you have the structure and style the way you want it, bring it into a sequencer (Real Band, Power Tracks, Sonar, etc.) to assign higher quality sounds before rendering it to MP3, WAV, or WMA.

If you want the most bang for your buck, and the most hassle-free fun, get a nice hardware GM box.
_________________________
Dave Burns
Lowell, MA

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#13287 - 02/07/09 03:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Mac]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6477
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Quote:

Absolute quality of sound, zero latency, always works, no pops or clicks, no sudden surprises or be upset about a couple or three cables extra and having to wait a whole five minutes...


I'll go with the quality of sound, etc. man.



--Mac




Yeah, yeah I know. It's just I have so much, so very much cra uh, stuff already ya know? Sigh....I'll probably wind up getting it, you'll be the first to know.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#13288 - 02/07/09 03:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: jazzmammal]
Beowulf Kingsley Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Michigan, USA
I'm not so worried about cables as cash right now actually! I can certianly see the advantages to a hardware unit...but if I could find a likely suspect used, ah, then I'd be in business. Well, I'd be in business after I finish that darn manual and figure my way around a bit...and if this computer doesn't crash again...

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#13289 - 02/07/09 04:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: dburns]
Beowulf Kingsley Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Michigan, USA
Quote:

I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.





You know, I've just looked on Ebay at the Yahama MU-100 XG modules, and there are several of those at reasonable prices...is that a related unit? I can never keep synth nomenclature straight, it's all numbers...man, just give me a Telecaster or a Les Paul! I at least know what they are. Somedays I miss the old Vox Vaguars too.

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#13290 - 02/07/09 07:38 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Beowulf Kingsley]
Shastastan Offline
Expert

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1252
Loc: CA
Thanks for this thread. I had assumed that the VSC was the best. I just downloaded the Coyote Forte after hearing the demo comparisons. I play on purchasing it, since the price is reasonable and the sound is so much better. I really don't need a hardware unit for what I do.
_________________________
Cornet Curmudgeon

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#13291 - 02/08/09 12:16 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Shastastan]
dburns Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 88
Loc: Lowell, MA
Beowulf,

The MU-100 is not the same. It's an earlier version of Yamaha's XG synth line. The MU-100 does not sound as good. In fact, I bought a used MU-100 and was disappointed in the sounds and the overall usefullness of the thing. I'd choose the XV-2020 or Ketron SD-2 over it.

The SW1000XG is a PCI board for your computer. My card is a version of it for the Yamaha Motif, and it sounds great. I don't think there is a stand-alone hardware version. I did a quick search of Ebay for an SW1000XG and found a couple in Greece for about $600 each.

The MU-100R is the same as the PCI card, but is a hardware box. If you can find one on Ebay for less than the Ketron or Roland, it may be worth buying. But, they are pretty old now (stopped production around 2002), so be careful.

The Ketron is the only one of the above that is still in production, and has a future.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/sw1000xg/index.html

Also, in reference to Mac's mention of the Ketron SD-4 (I think it was), and using its two GM synths independently: I found trying to use the Motif Rack sounds for playing and the PLG-100XG for MIDI playback wasn't as simple as I'd hoped. You can play a MIDI file while you play, but you must stay in "Performance" mode, which means you can't just dial up a nice piano patch to play along. If you change your mind and want to use an organ patch during a song, you can't do that from the keyboard. You have to send the instrument patch via MIDI from a sequencer. I tried it live, but it proved to cumbersome (and the unit is too heavy!).

So now, (not to sound too much like I'm plugging a particular product!) I have a Ketron SD-2 tucked in the back of my rack, connected via USB, audio thru the Ultralite, and I'm very happy.

I tell you all this detail, not to push a product, but too share my experience with what's out there.
_________________________
Dave Burns
Lowell, MA

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#13292 - 02/08/09 08:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: dburns]
jazzwombat Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 457
Loc: Balmer, Merlan, USA
Quote:

Like most folks here, I've been through the hardware vs. software choices. I think I've tried just about everything.

I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.

Bandstand is NOT supported at all by NI any more (not that it was from the start). So, even though I like it and wouldn't recommend against buying it (if you can find it for less than $100), beware. You're on your own.

One thing you might try is to use the free softsynth in BB to sketch out a song, then after you have the structure and style the way you want it, bring it into a sequencer (Real Band, Power Tracks, Sonar, etc.) to assign higher quality sounds before rendering it to MP3, WAV, or WMA.

If you want the most bang for your buck, and the most hassle-free fun, get a nice hardware GM box.




Hi,

This is a great thread. Mac's audio files displaying the Ketron SD2's abilities were outstanding. So much so that I plan to buy one. My question: I have an emu0404 audio interface and a cheap Casio midi keyboard. Where does the SD2 fit into the picture? In between the emu and the keyboard? I just want to be sure I don't go off and buy the SD2 then find out I need $$$ more equipment.

Best wishes,

Bob
_________________________
Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas


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#13293 - 02/08/09 08:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: jazzwombat]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.

Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.

One connection to each.

Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.

If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.

Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#13294 - 02/09/09 09:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Mac]
jazzwombat Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 457
Loc: Balmer, Merlan, USA
Quote:

Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.

Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.

One connection to each.

Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.

If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.

Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.


--Mac




Great! Thanks Mac.

Bob
_________________________
Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas


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#13295 - 02/12/09 07:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Mac]
jazzwombat Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 457
Loc: Balmer, Merlan, USA
Quote:

Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.

Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.

One connection to each.

Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.

If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.

Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.


--Mac




I have a small problem: the emu doesn't have a line input pair to use for the L and R stereo audio outputs from the SD2. It has s/pdif inputs, but they're digital. I'm using one of two Hi-Z/line input for a shure 57, so no go there either. Any suggestions? (Should have looked before buying, but there must be a way around this... I hope.)

Bob
_________________________
Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas


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Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


PG Music News
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