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#13281 - 02/06/09 04:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: maiki]
Beowulf Kingsley Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Michigan, USA
I'll check out Bandstand...I've had mixed feelings about Native Instruments - I love their products but it seems if anything goes wrong their aftermarket support is negligible at best (at least in my experience). Still, it bears looking at, as I do have and use other software of theirs and it's always sounded excellent. At this point I've downloaded Forte (no reason not to) and it is a significant improvement from the Soundcanvas, although not at the level that something like the Ketron can produce. I still like the ease of using a softsynth though, I'm trying to minimise the cables in my life if possible! There's enough spegetti in the studio as it is.

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#13282 - 02/07/09 03:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Beowulf Kingsley]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6408
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Quote:

I still like the ease of using a softsynth though, I'm trying to minimise the cables in my life if possible! There's enough spegetti in the studio as it is.




You hit it right on the head. Hardware has a lot of advantages but desktop clutter is not one of them plus having to play your opus in real time to record it. A five minute tune takes five minutes to record while software can render it in about 20 seconds. I like that. The whole reason more and more powerful softsynths were created was to bypass all that and I'm a believer but with Biab, it's a pain because it only has one midi output port so you can only use one softsynth. That means it has to have all the instruments. You can't use a killer drum module just for drums, another just for guitar, etc. I use Forte exclusively in Biab because it sounds good enough to not hurt my ears while I put a tune together, then the whole thing goes into Real Band although many times lately I'm using just Real Band because it does about 90% of what Biab does anyway with a lot more flexibility.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#13283 - 02/07/09 05:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: jazzmammal]
LynB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/00
Posts: 3161
Loc: Barton-on-Sea,Hants,UK
Hi maiki,

I use both Papelmedia and the Forte GM sets but generally in PTW/RealBand and via VSampler so that both sets are immediately available, I just need to change the LSB code between 0 and 1 to switch instrument patches from one set to the other. In comparison, some patches are better in Forte and others in Papel. As examples: in my view, Patch 33 Acoustic Bass is better in Forte while Patch 55 plus alternative voices are much better in Papel. Both are better than than the VSC DXi but I choose to use the VSC synth in BIAB for simplicity while in PTW/RB I have the freedom to mix and match sounds from a number of different sources.

Lyn

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#13284 - 02/07/09 09:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: LynB]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Absolute quality of sound, zero latency, always works, no pops or clicks, no sudden surprises or be upset about a couple or three cables extra and having to wait a whole five minutes...


I'll go with the quality of sound, etc. man.



--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#13285 - 02/07/09 11:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Mac]
jcspro40 Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 824
Loc: Ohio-USA
I have heard Bandstand in BB 2008.5 and thought it.....stunk. The balance of the instruments were off, and I thought that the free Sound Site Album Bank or Massive thru SFZ sounded more balanced.

Of course this is all YMMV & IMHO
_________________________
Custom Core2Quad 3.2Ghz, 8gb memory, 1gb nVidia dual monitor card, 1tb OS HDD, 2 2gb Internal HDD, 8tb External HDD, dual LG 27" Monitors, Win7 x64 Ultimate, BiaB/RB 2017, Reaper 4.75, Mixbus 32C, IK Multimedia / iZotope / Plug & Mix VST-VSTi Collections

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#13286 - 02/07/09 11:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: jcspro40]
dburns Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 88
Loc: Lowell, MA
Like most folks here, I've been through the hardware vs. software choices. I think I've tried just about everything.

I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.

Bandstand is NOT supported at all by NI any more (not that it was from the start). So, even though I like it and wouldn't recommend against buying it (if you can find it for less than $100), beware. You're on your own.

One thing you might try is to use the free softsynth in BB to sketch out a song, then after you have the structure and style the way you want it, bring it into a sequencer (Real Band, Power Tracks, Sonar, etc.) to assign higher quality sounds before rendering it to MP3, WAV, or WMA.

If you want the most bang for your buck, and the most hassle-free fun, get a nice hardware GM box.
_________________________
Dave Burns
Lowell, MA

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#13287 - 02/07/09 03:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Mac]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6408
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Quote:

Absolute quality of sound, zero latency, always works, no pops or clicks, no sudden surprises or be upset about a couple or three cables extra and having to wait a whole five minutes...


I'll go with the quality of sound, etc. man.



--Mac




Yeah, yeah I know. It's just I have so much, so very much cra uh, stuff already ya know? Sigh....I'll probably wind up getting it, you'll be the first to know.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#13288 - 02/07/09 03:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: jazzmammal]
Beowulf Kingsley Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Michigan, USA
I'm not so worried about cables as cash right now actually! I can certianly see the advantages to a hardware unit...but if I could find a likely suspect used, ah, then I'd be in business. Well, I'd be in business after I finish that darn manual and figure my way around a bit...and if this computer doesn't crash again...

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#13289 - 02/07/09 04:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: dburns]
Beowulf Kingsley Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Michigan, USA
Quote:

I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.





You know, I've just looked on Ebay at the Yahama MU-100 XG modules, and there are several of those at reasonable prices...is that a related unit? I can never keep synth nomenclature straight, it's all numbers...man, just give me a Telecaster or a Les Paul! I at least know what they are. Somedays I miss the old Vox Vaguars too.

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#13290 - 02/07/09 07:38 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Beowulf Kingsley]
Shastastan Offline
Expert

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1252
Loc: CA
Thanks for this thread. I had assumed that the VSC was the best. I just downloaded the Coyote Forte after hearing the demo comparisons. I play on purchasing it, since the price is reasonable and the sound is so much better. I really don't need a hardware unit for what I do.
_________________________
Cornet Curmudgeon

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#13291 - 02/08/09 12:16 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Shastastan]
dburns Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 88
Loc: Lowell, MA
Beowulf,

The MU-100 is not the same. It's an earlier version of Yamaha's XG synth line. The MU-100 does not sound as good. In fact, I bought a used MU-100 and was disappointed in the sounds and the overall usefullness of the thing. I'd choose the XV-2020 or Ketron SD-2 over it.

The SW1000XG is a PCI board for your computer. My card is a version of it for the Yamaha Motif, and it sounds great. I don't think there is a stand-alone hardware version. I did a quick search of Ebay for an SW1000XG and found a couple in Greece for about $600 each.

The MU-100R is the same as the PCI card, but is a hardware box. If you can find one on Ebay for less than the Ketron or Roland, it may be worth buying. But, they are pretty old now (stopped production around 2002), so be careful.

The Ketron is the only one of the above that is still in production, and has a future.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/sw1000xg/index.html

Also, in reference to Mac's mention of the Ketron SD-4 (I think it was), and using its two GM synths independently: I found trying to use the Motif Rack sounds for playing and the PLG-100XG for MIDI playback wasn't as simple as I'd hoped. You can play a MIDI file while you play, but you must stay in "Performance" mode, which means you can't just dial up a nice piano patch to play along. If you change your mind and want to use an organ patch during a song, you can't do that from the keyboard. You have to send the instrument patch via MIDI from a sequencer. I tried it live, but it proved to cumbersome (and the unit is too heavy!).

So now, (not to sound too much like I'm plugging a particular product!) I have a Ketron SD-2 tucked in the back of my rack, connected via USB, audio thru the Ultralite, and I'm very happy.

I tell you all this detail, not to push a product, but too share my experience with what's out there.
_________________________
Dave Burns
Lowell, MA

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#13292 - 02/08/09 08:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: dburns]
jazzwombat Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 457
Loc: Balmer, Merlan, USA
Quote:

Like most folks here, I've been through the hardware vs. software choices. I think I've tried just about everything.

I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.

Bandstand is NOT supported at all by NI any more (not that it was from the start). So, even though I like it and wouldn't recommend against buying it (if you can find it for less than $100), beware. You're on your own.

One thing you might try is to use the free softsynth in BB to sketch out a song, then after you have the structure and style the way you want it, bring it into a sequencer (Real Band, Power Tracks, Sonar, etc.) to assign higher quality sounds before rendering it to MP3, WAV, or WMA.

If you want the most bang for your buck, and the most hassle-free fun, get a nice hardware GM box.




Hi,

This is a great thread. Mac's audio files displaying the Ketron SD2's abilities were outstanding. So much so that I plan to buy one. My question: I have an emu0404 audio interface and a cheap Casio midi keyboard. Where does the SD2 fit into the picture? In between the emu and the keyboard? I just want to be sure I don't go off and buy the SD2 then find out I need $$$ more equipment.

Best wishes,

Bob
_________________________
Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas


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#13293 - 02/08/09 08:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: jazzwombat]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.

Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.

One connection to each.

Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.

If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.

Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#13294 - 02/09/09 09:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Mac]
jazzwombat Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 457
Loc: Balmer, Merlan, USA
Quote:

Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.

Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.

One connection to each.

Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.

If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.

Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.


--Mac




Great! Thanks Mac.

Bob
_________________________
Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas


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#13295 - 02/12/09 07:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Software Synthesisers [Re: Mac]
jazzwombat Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 457
Loc: Balmer, Merlan, USA
Quote:

Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.

Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.

One connection to each.

Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.

If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.

Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.


--Mac




I have a small problem: the emu doesn't have a line input pair to use for the L and R stereo audio outputs from the SD2. It has s/pdif inputs, but they're digital. I'm using one of two Hi-Z/line input for a shure 57, so no go there either. Any suggestions? (Should have looked before buying, but there must be a way around this... I hope.)

Bob
_________________________
Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/BobBelas


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Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


PG Music News
A Little Bit Of Me Music Video!

A great music video created by forum user Floyd Jane! https://youtu.be/qPrejgnwb4M?t=3600

This song was featured in a detailed "The Birth of a Song" video created by Floyd Jane - watch the complete video here:
http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qPrejgnwb4M

RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
Updated: Help file.

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is Here!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is here! PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 includes many new features and enhancements:

Windows Audio (WASAPI) driver support. This allows for low latency audio recording/playback without requiring ASIO. Note that this supports 1 stereo input plus 1 stereo output at a time. For multiple inputs/outputs, you should continue to use either MME or ASIO.

ABC Notation format support. You can save a track of notation in a popular ASCII text format to import into other programs, or you can paste this format into a user forum as a way of sending the track (usually the melody and chord symbols) to other users without having to attach a file.

The built-in Audio Chord Wizard detection in the Chords window automatically detects the chords of the song, based on the audio data from all non-muted audio tracks. This works similar to the standalone Audio Chord Wizard, except that it uses the current bar lines of the existing song.

Notation Enhancements:
-X/8 time signature support. This is a special method of displaying 6/8, 9/8, or 12/8 time signatures in the Notation window.
-The Duplicate previous chord in notation right-click menu lets you quickly duplicate the previous chord (group of notes on same peg) without having to reenter it.
-Delete highlighted notes in notation right-click menu lets you delete all highlighted notes.
-Delete all notes on this peg in notation right-click menu lets you delete all notes on the nearest peg that was clicked on.
-You can now enter Section Numbers. Previously, you could enter letters (A-Z) only, but now you can also enter numbers (1-9).

...a full list of the new features in PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is available at http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.features.htm

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

#TBT - The Beginning of Xtra Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box®

We released the much-loved Xtra Styles PAKs in August 2016! This release included 164 RealStyles for Jazz, Country, Rock-Pop, and Singer/Songwriter and worked with any Band-in-a-Box® 2016 or higher UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK, or Audiophile Edition!

Xtra Styles PAKs were such a hit... we couldn't stop making them! Since their introduction, we've released 3 more PAKs with a total of over 600 Xtra Styles in all!

Want to hear what other program users are doing with their Xtra Styles? Visit our Xtra STyles Contests forum to hear all the songs submitted during previous song contest we've had: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=102&page=1

Learn more about Xtra Styles PAKs and listen to their demos at http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win.

Band-in-a-Box® Customer Feedback - Feel The Love!

Check out some great feedback we've received on our Facebook account from program users:

"I have been using Band-in-a-Box for years. It is the anchor of my music gigs as well as my fun in my studio. I have used other software but Band-in-a-Box is my main go to."
-Jack T.

"Love Band-in-a-Box. As someone who played professionally for 20 years and retired from live performing years ago, I still love music. Band-in-a-Box allows me to create fun arrangements which I can sing over or play over. There are THOUSANDS of different variations plus you can enter any chords you like and create any chart. It's also great for creating background tracks for videos and audio content for websites, training etc. And like everything else in the world . . . it may not be right for everyone. For those who love music and don't have the time to shed five or six instruments it's way cool."
-Vinnie R.

"This program has completely changed my playing for the good. I can experiment with playing chords and leads over various scenarios that I can quickly create and change. Love this program. I use it nearly every day."
-Dave R.

"I bought my first version in 1994 and have progressed to 2018 version. I use it to create backing tracks for live music performance. I currently have over 2,000 songs performance ready. If you can and type, and use mouse it will work for you."
-Roger M.

"The premiere reason for me for buying this program; it has given me the freedom to fully complete the foundation for my songs without the confinement of limited minded musicians. After the song concept is complete, it can then be presented those musicians to play as a cover song. Also writing a song with a band gives them partial ownership of your idea... not cool... especially since they may have fought your idea every step of the way.. Every member of an organized band should own a copy of this program to compose or to even give legitimate composition alternatives to the original songwriter."
-Paul V.

Thanks everyone!

Support for ABC Notation Format in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

ABC notation is the simple text-based notation system used by musicians worldwide to store chords, melody, and lyrics of songs. Now with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows you can open and save songs in ABC notation format!

To save the song in ABC notation format, press the [Save As] toolbar button and choose Save as ABC notation file from the menu. Once opened, select a track that you want to save and choose your other criteria - The [Copy to clipboard] button will copy the file to the clipboard (that you can then paste it into other programs). The [Save as File] button will let you type a name and select the destination in your hard drive.

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