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Can't chat long.
I truly believe that Win 7 is a Vista makeover, since I'm using all Vista drivers. If it wasn't, truly, a new kernel, they'd have to rewrite all the drivers for it.
I can't get Creative's card to work, and Bob, if you notice, there appears to be no support for anything pre-Fatal1ty on Creative's website, and that includes older drivers for Audigy. Hence, I spent $175 and purchased the Asus Xonar D2X sound card, which I will use in place of the Platinum ex I have now. A little much, and without some of the fancy ins and outs of the ex, but mostly I can do what the ex did with the Xonar and my unused Behringer UB-802.
There are still some things that don't work with Win 7, I've still been unable to get the Network printers to connect, I don't understand 'homegroup' as a networking feature, but I can still access files on my other computers.
All in all, so far, it's been a very nice, very stable system. I've gotten one BSOD, and that was trying to install a driver that didn't work and wasn't designed for it.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit 16GB RAM\2018 13” MacBook Air casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
casio wk-7500
biab & realband 2023 everything pk both with Current builds
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Use of a certain driver type is no sure indication at all about the many other more important aspects of an OS...
For example, WDM driver model was added to Win98 after 98 and 98SE were rather long in the tooth. Does that mean that Win98 is XP? Of course not. And proving same is rather easy to do.
--Mac
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Thanks for the extra info, guys.
Sometimes its good to question these things.. which I will do tonight.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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G'day Mac, Quote:
Back when the Longhorn beta testing was happening (Longhorn = Vista) -- there were not ANY soundcard drivers written yet.
Some few soundcard developers managed to catch up, others were still trying to figure out Vista soundcard drivers a year after Vista was released.
Not sure why it took so long, but have a feeling that m$oft's allegiance to DRM had something to do with it -- recalling when Longhorn suddenly decided that all my own created audio files needed to be protected from me...
My understanding is that m$ changed the driver model/API specs several times towards the end of longhorn development and most of the hardware manufacturers had already written for the originally released spec. Because of the expense they were unwilling tro re-write if their drivers appeared to work and would blame vista rather than their own non-compliant drivers. However, IMHO the real culprit here is m$ for not handling the driver model changes properly. They should never have released the spec. until it was stable.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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They were warned.
Originally, I got Longhorn beta that used existing XP drivers.
Otherwise, nobody -- not any of us anywhere -- could test anything.
You wouldn't even have been able to address a vidcard so you could SEE the doggone thing. Ditto for mouse, USB, disk drives, CD or DVD, etc. etc. As I understand it, some they kept and others, like sound, they changed. But I recall being made aware of that from the gitgo.
Think about it.
--Mac
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Yup, but the point I was making was that there was more than one later update to the spec. from that original XP compatible version. There were several within a few months prior to release - the hardware vendors apparently were frustrated with the seemingly constant changes... Takes money to write these things and when you need to do it 5, 6, 7 or more times seemingly at the whim of a conglomerate that doesn't care and won't fund the wasted changes they caused... Two sides to every argument of course, the original specs just didn't work right and needed updating. And the audio side is still a pain in the a*** (I spell it right  ). All in all, longhorn/vista was a disaster for m$ that they caused for themselves. 'minds me of DOS 4 only more so.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Meanwhile, Vista ships pre-installed on the majority of new PCs.
That's quite a disaster.
But maybe not so much a financial disaster for m$oft, eh?
It is what it is, it ain't what it ain't.
I'm still using XP on my DAWs, just like I kept W98SE running while everybody else reported the various troubles on the interim OS offerings.
At least m$oft is not afraid of throwin' it out there, runnin' it up the flagpole and seeing who salutes it. Or not.
Don't forget about those marketing people, the ones with the propeller beanies, I mean.
--Mac
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Quote:
The problem is that they tire quickly over their own names!
A couple more years of numbers and they'll be back to some
equally nonsensical naming system.
that reminds me of the acronym TWAIN, the old scanner standard. it was supposedly derived from the off-handed engineer's comment: "That Was An Interesting Name."
Gary, with your proximity to ms redmond campus you should sign up for their 'usability studies' its a great way to earn ms software. they called me many times while i lived in wa. they compensated my time by giving me my choice of software.
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Quote:
Meanwhile, Vista ships pre-installed on the majority of new PCs.
That's quite a disaster.
But maybe not so much a financial disaster for m$oft, eh?
Only because they give us no choice - you will find that corporates are using the vista business licence "downgrade right" to install XP Pro - they may have a vista licence, but they are running XP - and m$ know what the numbers are 'cos to do the downgrade you must enter the vista key into an automated system in order to be issued with an XP activation. I know of NO major corporates who have embraced vista, though most have done testing - that's why they're still running XP.
Win7 was supposed to be another 2 years or so away, why have m$ brought it forward? 'cos vista is costing them. Win7 is a vista facelift with, I hope, enough fixes to make it compatible, reliable and fast. I'm waiting to see if they have succeeded. I'm not holding my breath - I've been supporting m$ product since 1984, initially for my then employer and then since 1993 in my own business. The cynicism your see/hear from me is well earned by them...
That said, I should really love m$ - afterall, fixing their crap products has been feeding my family for 25 years now..
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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"they give us no choice"
Actually, they did. Vista Bidness was exchanged for XP if so desired. On top of that, there are still desktops and laptops available that come with XP Home and Pro pre-installed.
But I have little time for paranoia, conspiracy theories, nor emotional outburst, sorry. Funny thing is that the ones who complain the most are the ones who would be looking for different employment were it not for the product that they love to hate.
If you think you can develop a better OS, why not do so? After all, that is basically what starts any endeavor worth doing.
Carry on,
--Mac
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The instructor (head of networking department and main OS instructor) told me again tonight that Win 7 is indeed a new kernel and core. 'Definately not a Vista redo', nothing Vista about it according to him.
He almost paraphrased Mac on drivers, and when you think about it- they have now forced a lot of people to get new hardware and drivers for Vista; of course Win7 will focus on supporting those drivers.
He is not a 'pro MS' kind of guy, and he is very excited about Win 7 because it is not a Vista rework. The operating system is much smaller with a whole different core according to him and its his job to study these things. He was pretty compelling and sure about it, saying there is documentation from MS to back this up.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Quote:
"they give us no choice"
Actually, they did. Vista Bidness was exchanged for XP if so desired.
umm, yup - I mentioned that...
Quote:
On top of that, there are still desktops and laptops available that come with XP Home and Pro pre-installed.
Which was supposed to stop in Jan 2008 IIRC, then was extended to July 2008, and again to Dec 2008 and again to, I think, May 2009 is the next supposed cut off - I wonder why they keep extending it...? I might not have all the months exactly right but you get the idea - there have been at least 3 extensions..
Quote:
But I have little time for paranoia, conspiracy theories, nor emotional outburst, sorry.
I admit to bias - well founded, but still bias.
Quote:
Funny thing is that the ones who complain the most are the ones who would be looking for different employment were it not for the product that they love to hate.
Yup - addressed that too...
Quote:
If you think you can develop a better OS, why not do so? After all, that is basically what starts any endeavor worth doing.
I happily admit I can't cut code to save my life - but I can observe where the industry that supports me is going... And how the major players behave...
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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My office has several high end document scanners that require hardware cards that cost something like $800 each. When Vista came out, there were no drivers for those cards and that was one main reason we didn't "upgrade" to Vista. Our IT guy was telling me that developers don't have access to the registry like before so they have to ask MS to set them up with some kind of back door access that lets them write a driver but not actually know how it works with the OS for security reasons. I'm probably not saying this right but it's something like that. You can imagine how cumbersome that can get with bug fixes and the like.
Since I'm not a IT pro I just did a quick Google search about 3rd party compatibility and Vista and man, what a mess. I am exactly right from what I see and since Win 7 is still Vista, where does that leave us? The primary reason for Vista in the first place was security because hackers keep having a field day breaking into XP but security means locking up access to the registry and that means limited 3rd party development. That sounds like a classic case of "you can't get there from here".
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Rharv, I don't have the smarts to question your instructor but here's the article I was referring to PCWorld They're basically saying it's Vista. Also, here's a quote from Ballmer talking about Win 7: "It will be the first in what will apparently be a long line of operating systems built on the Vista code base." Finally, there this: No new kernel for Windows 7...From what I'm reading a lot of people do seem to be impressed with it if the 3rd party development problem is solved. We can hope... Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I sure don't remember this many people who tested Vista walking away excited about it..
maybe they did something right now.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I now have it running on two computers. I built a new system last night, Phenom II 3.0GHz, 4 GB Ram, 2 500 GB Hard drives, etc. I could not install the mother board drivers from Asus. I got an error that said the OS wasn't supported, and it was 6.1.xx. I think that means it's Vista.  I am very, VERY happy with this. It's very fast, it's pleasant to use, and I can shut off the User Access Control. Once I shut that down, I never get a Permission to Install again. I love it. Of course, it opens me up to dangers, but the same dangers I have been dealing with in XP, soooo.... Don't go to sites that are going to put infected stuff on your computer. Oh, after I downloaded it, time to install Avast...15 seconds. It was going so fast I couldn't keep up with the mouse clicks.  Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Quote:
I can shut off the User Access Control. Once I shut that down, I never get a Permission to Install again.
I did that in Vista when I first got it and never looked back. UAC makes sense in a business networked environment, but for a home computer it's just protecting me from myself. I do fairly frequent drive images and back up my data regularly. If I get zapped with something, I'll be up and fully running in an hour (haven't been zapped yet, though).
I understand that UAC has been changed in Windows 7 to provide additional layers of protection (versus just on and off). But again, for my home computer, it's still just protecting me from me...(Yes, I really did want to install that application that I just ran the install program for...err, yes really, I want to install it...yes, I'm really sure...)
So, Gary, once it goes live, any idea what it's gonna cost you to keep running Windows 7?
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Well John, That kind of depends if I'm still working at the same company I am now, and if my co-workers son continues to work for that company in Redmond and has access to the company store! As to what the retail pricing will be, I suspect that the pricing for Vista will probably apply. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Somewhere I read that they might respond to the criticism of Vista having so many forms by offering only two variants of Windows 7 - like a Home and a Business version. This would be a good idea, I think, to reduce confusion in making the initial choice, and reduce the number of possible setups to diagnose.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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