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#140070 - 12/10/11 01:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: Lawrence.1955]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:


Thanks, Pretty much the same philosophy for patches and updates. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."




Experience has shown me that in the case of Band in a Box software, keeping track of the Updates and downloading and installing them is beneficial to the end-user almost every time.

There have historically been many fixes that, while you may not think things are broken, they are.

Why set yourself up for what would be a relatively easy cure - and often can be avoided altogether - by ignoring the updates and patches?

Experience in answering the problems of forum users over the past ten or more years has shown me that there are a significant number of posts where the user has encountered a problem with the program that has already been addressed by these Updates, but the user has failed to keep track of, download and install the update.

On top of that, one does not need to install the first update, then the next, then the next and so-on if they haven't updated the program in some time, pgmusic has been great at making sure that the LATEST Update file posted has all the fixes from previous updates in it as well.

Yes, if you ever go to do a reinstall of BB from the drive, say onto a new machine, you should do the install, then ascertain that bb is basicall working, and then install the latest downloaded update right overtop. Also should check for any possibly missing Realtracks/Realdrums updates at that time and do likewise.

The amount of time it takes to do so is not as bad as the frustration and lost time that not having a certain feature fixed and working can impart to a project. When the creative juices are flowing, it is almost criminal to have to interrupt that in order to troubleshoot a problem that, if the updates had been done, would not even be a problem. YMMV, but since the analogy has already been given, the responsible automobile owner shouldn't ignore oil changes and tuneup intervals with the expectation of having that automobile function as intended, especially when the automaker includes a schedule for maintenance.

Software has a maintenance as well, IMO and in this case, those Updates are just part and parcel of maintaining the software in good working order, in an effort to maximize benefit.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

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#140071 - 12/10/11 01:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: Lawrence.1955]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13456
Lawrence,

There are about 80,000 files in the Band-in-a-Box UltraPak. It is inevitable that a few will need patching, or be missing. In this case, there are 2 RealTracks that are about a week late, and so will be posted online in a free patch update.

As you mentioned, you haven't even received the hard drive version yet, so it is possible that the online patch will appear **before** you get the physical copy. In this case, wait until the hard drive arrives, and then apply the patch.

The patch update can be applied directly to the hard drive (e.g. if your hard drive is f:\, just point to the f:\bb directory on the hard drive), which makes your hard drive fully up to date. Note that the hard drive is then identical to what it should be, and can be used as a backup etc. Future patches should also be applied like that, to keep your backup copy up to date.

As you know, Windows, Apple and most other software companies update their software with online (free) patches. How often do you boot iTunes, to be told that "important patch must be applied etc."

We believe that most people prefer to get 99.9% of a big product like this, and just apply a patch when available to top it up to 100%. For example, if we discover that one of the demos on MIDI "techno" styles set 79 has the wrong key signature, would you prefer that we hold your order until that is fixed, or ship as-is, and put up a patch?
Maintaining a product with 80,000 files is an ongoing process, so regular patches throughout the year are to be expected.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#140072 - 12/10/11 01:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: Mac]
Lawrence.1955 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 49
Hi Mac. Agreed. You offer sage advice. There are, however, features I do not use, for example, the iphone app. It makes no sense to me to blindly rush to download every update to features, like the iphone, which I never use. Generally biab works pretty well. If I have an issue, something I use isn't quite right, I'll check for patches or the forums. I also check support periodically for current releases and keep a journal of those I've added and those I haven't. On a side note - not to change the topic to wish lists - it would be a usefull benefit to be able to select or deselect some peripheral features, like the iphone I never use, from program installation - the whole thing is pretty large.

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#140073 - 12/10/11 01:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: Lawrence.1955]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18967
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
2012 has a checkbox during installaetion for iPhone server app. Uncheck it and never worry about it.
Your wish is already answered!
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#140074 - 12/10/11 02:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: PeterGannon]
Lawrence.1955 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 49
Quote:

Lawrence,

There are about 80,000 files in the Band-in-a-Box UltraPak. It is inevitable that a few will need patching, or be missing. In this case, there are 2 RealTracks that are about a week late, and so will be posted online in a free patch update.

As you mentioned, you haven't even received the hard drive version yet, so it is possible that the online patch will appear **before** you get the physical copy. In this case, wait until the hard drive arrives, and then apply the patch.

The patch update can be applied directly to the hard drive (e.g. if your hard drive is f:\, just point to the f:\bb directory on the hard drive), which makes your hard drive fully up to date. Note that the hard drive is then identical to what it should be, and can be used as a backup etc. Future patches should also be applied like that, to keep your backup copy up to date.

As you know, Windows, Apple and most other software companies update their software with online (free) patches. How often do you boot iTunes, to be told that "important patch must be applied etc."

We believe that most people prefer to get 99.9% of a big product like this, and just apply a patch when available to top it up to 100%. For example, if we discover that one of the demos on MIDI "techno" styles set 79 has the wrong key signature, would you prefer that we hold your order until that is fixed, or ship as-is, and put up a patch?
Maintaining a product with 80,000 files is an ongoing process, so regular patches throughout the year are to be expected.




Hello Prof. Gannon. Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do understand that such a large program will need patches. And thanks to PG Music for the product support.

In a previous post, I wrote that it has been my prior experience on a couple of re-installs that program updates applied to the external drive do not convey to a re-install. Installers for the subsequent updates had to also be run again (or downloaded and re-installed again separately). Please correct me if I am mistaken. Am I understanding your post correctly to mean that if I apply patches and build updates to the external hard drive as a back-up that, if a re-install is necessary, the main program installer can be run and all of those added patches and build updates will transfer to the new re-install? If so that would simplify and expedite re-installation. Thanks again!

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#140075 - 12/10/11 02:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: rharv]
Lawrence.1955 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 49
Quote:

2012 has a checkbox during installaetion for iPhone server app. Uncheck it and never worry about it.
Your wish is already answered!




Fabulous! I have that to look forward to. If only all my wishes were granted so quickly.... Thanks!

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#140076 - 12/10/11 02:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: Lawrence.1955]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13456
>> Hello Prof. Gannon
I appreciate the salutation, but it is unearned, as I've never been a professor.

>>> In a previous post, I wrote that it has been my prior experience on a couple of re-installs that program updates applied to the external drive do not convey to a re-install. Installers for the subsequent updates had to also be run again (or downloaded and re-installed again separately). Please correct me if I am mistaken.

In the case of the hard drive version, for a *** full install** the f:\bb folder just gets copied during an install, so an update to the hard drive changes those files, and hence changes the install. So need to repatch if you patched that.

If you are doing a **minimal install** from the hard drive, then it doesn't copy the RealTracks folder, and installs a compressed image, and so you would need to reapply a patch to the c:\bb folder in that case.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#140077 - 12/10/11 02:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: PeterGannon]
SmoothJohn Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 68
Loc: Edmonton, Canada
Egad. I see that you don't have a wikipedia entry, Peter. How can you stand for this?



John

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#140078 - 12/10/11 02:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: SmoothJohn]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18967
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_in_a_box

Unless you meant Peter having a personal entry ..
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#140079 - 12/10/11 02:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: PeterGannon]
Lawrence.1955 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 49
Quote:

>> Hello Prof. Gannon
I appreciate the salutation, but it is unearned, as I've never been a professor.




Guess you can't believe everything you read on the internet. Don't recall offhand exactly where I read you were a Prof. but you have have that credit somewhere on the web...


Quote:



In the case of the hard drive version, for a *** full install** the f:\bb folder just gets copied during an install, so an update to the hard drive changes those files, and hence changes the install. So need to repatch if you patched that.

If you are doing a **minimal install** from the hard drive, then it doesn't copy the RealTracks folder, and installs a compressed image, and so you would need to reapply a patch to the c:\bb folder in that case.




Aha!! That explains it! I use the custom install option to install the bb and RT folders to separate drives. Thank you for that revelation, Peter! Oh well, so using the custom install option I'll still have to apply subsequent update patches.

In regards to the RealTrack in question, once it is added to the external hard drive, so it doesn't convey on a custom installation to separate drives and needs to be added to the RT folder subsequently? Do I understand correctly? No biggie, if I just need remember to keep a copy of the RT installer file as I have before. Thanks again!

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#140080 - 12/10/11 02:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: rharv]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13456
>> There are, however, features I do not use, for example, the iphone app

Remember, there are 2 iPhone apps (and same 2 for Android).

- one is BBRemote, which is a wireless remote control for Band-in-a-Box.
- the other is Band-in-a-Box for iPhone, which is a player program to play BB files on your iPhone.

If you have an iPhone, the BBRemote enhances use of the desktop Band-in-a-Box, by functioning as a wireless remote.

The "Band-in-a-Box for iPhone" is useful when you are away from the desktop version of Band-in-a-Box, so you can play tunes that you transferred over previously.

Of course you need to have an iPhone, iPad, or Android device to use these apps at all.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#140081 - 12/10/11 02:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: Lawrence.1955]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13456
>>> In regards to the RealTrack in question, once it is added to the external hard drive, so it doesn't convey on a custom installation to separate drives and needs to be added to the RT folder subsequently? Do I understand correctly? No biggie, if I just need remember to keep a copy of the RT installer file as I have before. Thanks again!

Yes, if you have 2 Realtracks folders:
c:\bb\RealTracks <----- your main drive, where you have BB copied to
and
f:\bb\RealTracks <----- your PG Music hard drive

Then, when you get a patch, you should apply it twice.
The first time, you point to c:\bb and c:\bb\RealTracks
The second time, you point to f:\bb and f:\bb\RealTracks

In other words, you would do the same thing as if you had BB on two different computers; you'd update them both.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#140082 - 12/10/11 04:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: Lawrence.1955]
Kemmrich Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Quote:

Lawrence.1955: Maybe I'm expecting too much? For example, when I take my vehicle in for a tune-up I expect it to be completed on delivery. I'd rather wait than have the shop mail the oil filter later with note to the effect of "..ooops! We didn't have it at the time!" and have to install it myself.




That is not anywhere near a reasonable analogy -- it just tells me that you've made your mind up and no amount of discussion will change your mind. Good luck with the software.
_________________________
Now at bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh @ bandcamp or soundcloud: Kevin @ soundcloud

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#140083 - 12/10/11 04:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: Kemmrich]
MitchC Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 581
Just return the dang thing if you're that upset. My word. Go buy something else you are satisfied with.

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#140084 - 12/10/11 10:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Biab 2012 Hard Drive Release Incomplete [Re: MitchC]
Lawrence.1955 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 49
Quote:

Just return the dang thing if you're that upset. My word. Go buy something else you are satisfied with.




No, I'm not upset; Just don't care for the extra hassle and putting in my 2 cents about it.... if that's ok with you.

Looking at all the problems people are posting about with adding on the missing RealTracks set 146 just makes the point. I'd preferred to have had the knowledge and informed choice to wait for the completed package of Biab 2012.

More of the tardy RealTrack and accompanying styles promised are yet to come. It's likely only going to get worse trying to add them to what - in my opinion - should have been a complete package to begin with.

Yeah, yeah, I expect some updates with any software. But when I'm told the release contains features A through Z, but after I pay I'm told 'well, it really doesn't have all that, yet. We'll send the rest when we're ready' ... I kinda have a problem with that kind of willfull absence of disclosure. Get it?

I'm trying to be kind here. You know what they call people that don't tell the truth.

I'm not in that big of a hurry to have the latest, greatest edition. Simply put, my preference is to have had it delivered complete without the hassle of chasing down the missing parts piecemeal and troubleshooting their various installations. That's what I was paying PG Music to do when I bought the 2012 release (so I thought). I have much better things to do with my time.

Well, maybe I should just cut my losses, use 2011 which I have already paid for and just return the Biab 2012 hard drive for a refund. Ok, ya talked me into it. Thanks!

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