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#159502 - 05/24/12 08:23 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: MountainSide]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Ryz should take the box home and install the BIOS upgrade himself. Had he done that in the first place, this whole nightmare would not be happening.

Can't guarantee it is a BIOS upgrade problem, but the signs have been pointing there from the beginning of this thread. DEFINITELY the next thing to try -- and quite often ends up being the last thing tried, as it is known to work.


--Mac
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#159503 - 05/24/12 08:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Mac]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7417
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
I would make them buy the whole thing back. Shop for a properly spec'ed super machine from one of these sources:

1. Sweetwater music: http://www.sweetwater.com/creation_station/
2. ADK: http://www.adkproaudio.com/
3. Rain computing: http://raincomputers.com/products/

There are other companies as well to consider, but these folks have already worked out these type of issues from the get-go. These are boxes spec'ed just for high-demand audio work (for which Richard isn't even doing - he's not doing 50+ tracks of I/O - but the kids at the Micro Center don't have a clue which was made crystal clear when they piped back what the PreSonus was).

No, the computer you buy from one of the above will not seem to be spec'ed as highly in some performance areas as the spec-it-yourself method, but you will not have to deal with the issues that Richard is dealing with now. These are ground-up spec machines for audio work. Gamers need not apply - go buy your alienware and clone boxes with neon lights inside from someplace else.

Richard - unless you have lots of personal content to move back off the machine, demand your money back - that would be my advice.

It really blows that you are dealing with this after the excitement you posted about finally getting a new box.

For my next music box, I'm buying from one of the above 3 or I'm joining the dark side and going Mac. I've had to fart around with Windows 7 driver issues on my new lappy, and was able to get it to be functional and fun with my recent Tascam US800 purchase, but I don't get enough time to do this hobby any longer to waste another second trying to sort things out myself. This Samsung lappy I bought about 9 months ago now decides now and then it just doesn't like to work for anything - even simple office function. I've exorcised it 6 ways to breakfast with all manner of anti-malware and anti-virus, etc. At least with an Apple, the boxes are designed ground-up for I/O, musicians in mind - and I've got a 'Genius Bar' less than 5 miles from the house. Cost will be about the same - properly spec'ed and supported PC from one of the above 3 or a Mac with similar performance features. Choices are more limited, but I'm getting crotchety about choice lately, give me fewer choices, just those that work and thank you I'll be recording and editing.

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#159504 - 05/24/12 09:32 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: rockstar_not]
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
Isn't it just so funny in a sad way that so many people never have ONE problem and others have them non stop? I run my RB on a home built computer with an Asus motherboard and an Intel whatever dual core with 4gb or RAM and the only issues I have were the ones I caused myself by trying to push RB beyond what it could do. And in the end, PG fixed THAT problem. My system runs like a knife through butter. And here is Richard with a brand new computer having major problems.... just no logic to it.

I still don't think it is BIOS related but we'll see. Because it is the USB bus you are dealing with, I doubt it is BIOS related. My BIOS may be 3 revs old, as are half of them in the country, and there is not a BIOS issue. If other devices work on his USB, that would steer me away from the USB bus being the issue.

I still want to see the Presonus work on another computer.
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I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#159505 - 05/24/12 09:52 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: eddie1261]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Quote:

I still want to see the Presonus work on another computer.




Both audio and MIDI function of the Presonus have been tested by a department manager and worked perfectly in the music store where I bought it. I took my MIDI controller keyboard in separately and tested it, too; it also worked.
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#159506 - 05/24/12 09:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: MountainSide]
Ryszard Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Quote:

One difference that I see right away is that Bob is using Win 7x64 Home Premium and Richard is using Win7x64 Ultimate. I have never liked using network specific software for home or audio work. The Ultimate version has added network security apps that cause slower startups and, in some cases, conflicts with media applications typically used in more intensive media applications. While Ultimate, with its necessary network security, is needed in enterprise business applications, I find it adds complications in media systems. YMMV. Still, that doesn't seem to explain the distortion..or does it?




I bought my copy of Windows 7 Ultimate from a Microsoft employee who is also a computer musician and uses it on his DAW without issue.
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"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#159507 - 05/24/12 10:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Mac]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Quote:

Ryz should take the box home and install the BIOS upgrade himself. Had he done that in the first place, this whole nightmare would not be happening.

Can't guarantee it is a BIOS upgrade problem, but the signs have been pointing there from the beginning of this thread. DEFINITELY the next thing to try -- and quite often ends up being the last thing tried, as it is known to work.


--Mac




If I felt qualified to do the BIOS I would have. I don't. I have stressed this to the technician, who tells me that he did do so. However, when I visited the Gigabyte site it appeared that there were several updates, including several that pertained specifically to audio. Whether he has done these updates I have no idea. I can't hold his hand.

Today they are going to try substituting the case, the only component which has not been replaced yet. If this does not work I will try to return everything and start again elsewhere.
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#159508 - 05/24/12 10:24 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Ryszard]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Gigabyte GA-Z68AP-D3 mainboard

Intel Core i5 2500K CPU

Zotac NVIDIA GeForce GTX560 2 Gb GPU

Corsair 8 Gb D3 1600 C9 DIMM x4

Corsair H80 Hydro Cooling Unit

Coolmaster SilentPro Gold 800W PSU

Oztech 60 Gb Sata 6.0 SSD

Western Digital Caviar Black 7,200 RPM 1 Tb HD 64 Mb cache

ASUS 24x D/L DVDRW SATA
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#159509 - 05/24/12 10:28 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Ryszard]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
Quote:

However, when I visited the Gigabyte site it appeared that there were several updates, including several that pertained specifically to audio. Whether he has done these updates I have no idea.




RED FLAG.

Those "updates" do NOT have anything to do with the BIOS. Do a quick Google on BIOS and read what it actually is. BIOS is Basic Input Output System. BIOS is where you tell the computer "Yes I have SATA drives. Enable them." and "Allow me to wake my computer up remotely." and "The correct time and date is..." and "Boot from HDD first, CD second...." and "Front side bus speed"..... BIOS tweaking is skiing the black diamond slope. If you don't know what Front Side Bus is, it's a good idea to leave it alone, just like if you can't ski, stay on the bunny trail.

What you are seeing is DRIVER updates. Because the provided sound "card" is onboard, it is no less a sound card, and it still requires drivers. In your case, you are not using that. Your "sound card" is a USB device. Thus all you are doing with the computer is interfacing a USB device. That can be a mouse, a keyboard, a printer, an iPod or iPhone dock, a web cam, a reading light, a small heater for your coffee cup... there are a TON of USB devices out there (some of them are hilarious). In your case it is a Presonus sound making device. THAT device will have drivers.

(Refer back to an OLD discussion. Drivers are NOT magic little packets of fairy dust. A driver is nothing more than a small piece of software that tells your operating system how to interact with a piece of hardware. This is why I laugh when people harp on updating drivers. If it worked YESTERDAY, some company offering a newer driver is not going to fix something that is broken today. You ahev to find what broke it. I can't tell you how many repairs I have done for people who insist on downloading new video drivers. WHY? Your video works fine. Just leave it alone until it breaks. THEN try a new driver. Also read what the new driver is supposed to improve before disturbing something that isn't broken.)

There IS obviously something wrong. And Mac is right. Your computer is not in good hands with whoever it is you have working on it given the level of questions they are asking. It sounds like they build computers for gamers and for grandma to get her email and this is out of their league.
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#159510 - 05/24/12 01:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: eddie1261]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
To Eddie, Mac, and others,

I'm a smart guy. Until now I have either built or upgraded all my own PCs. And I know the difference between the BIOS and drivers--when I'm paying attention. Problem is, I've got ADD big time, which can make it difficult to follow instructions. It is severe enough that it has cost me jobs in the past because I failed to perform some essential task.

In fact, I just got back from the Tag Office, where I had to buy a replacement sticker for my boat trailer because between the time I bought the original and the time I got home (in December of last year) I forgot to put it on the license plate. I have no idea where the first one is. Fortunately they were kind enough to just print me a duplicate for a couple of bucks and send me on my way. Equally fortunately, I haven't been stopped for an expired tag in the meantime.

So, about the BIOS? I'll leave critical technical operations to the pros.
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#159511 - 05/24/12 01:39 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Ryszard]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
I have been offered (nearly) the best of all possible worlds.

I went to the shop and asked for a manager, who got the technician. We had a great three-way conversation. I expressed my concerns about the fact that I have spent almost a kilobuck on the PC alone, not counting software, peripherals, assembly and repairs without effective result. This is now the seventh business day that they have had it on their bench.

Bottom line: The tech thinks he has it sussed out. I'm taking him a set of professional headphones--which they don't have--so he can listen through the Presonus, as well as the install disk and documentation for same. He thinks he'll have it ready by close of business tomorrow at the latest.

IF NOT, the manager said that they would accept everything in return, even though it is well past their normal 30-day return period. I said I couldn't ask for more than that and we parted happy. Either I get a working PC from them or I get to order one from someplace recommended here and I'm only out the bench charges. (I was prepared to accept 75% of retail on the return.)

I am officially gruntled.
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#159512 - 05/24/12 02:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Ryszard]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I've followed this closely, on the wife's Ipad. And there's lots of brain power to help you track stuff down.

Back in the lost ages, I had 3 separate contracts to figure out why certain systems did not run. I'm talking large scale Unix installs that ran up to 200k.

Hardware, Software, environment. What a tangled mess. Why did the data base at Kimberly Clark's paper mill take all night to sort a dozen entries. No one knew. Finger pointing.
Why did a large marketer have their computer crash every Monday. A year went by. Turned out it was the generator test day, and the thing was putting out very bad voltage then. Took me 3 days to figure it out.

My son built a computer for gaming. He's 23. Thing was a disaster from Day 1. Neon/flashing lights. It looked like something from Star Trek.

A possible solution would be to find an HP or some other brand name computer, selected by it's score on the tests Peter uses here. Built for a 'Media Computer'.

I quit buying huge hard drives. I have a Z drive now, Mybook thing by the modem/wireless modem. One linux system running cron to copy the photos and documents and music stuff to the Z drive at 2 a.m.

Telling you the truth it's better it was you than I. In my state I'd have had the BIG one by now!
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John Conley
Musica est vita

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#159513 - 05/24/12 05:46 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: John Conley]
Gary Curran Offline
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Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 10059
Loc: Poulsbo, Wa 98370
Rys,
I do have one request of you, and that's when all is said and done, and if they can fix it without replacing it, please let us know what was wrong with it.

I'm going to ask you one other thing. There is a BIOS update for this which resolves a USB 3.0 issue, but since the AudioBox is USB 1.1 is shouldn't matter.
BUT, on the rear of the unit, there are two sets of USB ports. Two of them sit next to the two more, which are sitting next to the Ethernet port. The two that are alone are USB 3.0/2.0. (These should be the blue ones) The other two are USB 2.0/1.1.(These should be the red ones) These are the one that are sitting with the Ethernet port. The AudioBox is a USB 1.1 device. Which USB port are you using??? In this case, it may very VERY important. You want to use the red ones!

I want to go back and expand on this a bit. There are three headers on the mainboard for external USB 2.0/1.1 connectors, like you'd have on your case. If the case is connected to them, I would try the Prosonus in one of those USB connectors. The USB 3.0 standard is supposed to run at up to 5Gb/s versus 480Mb/s for USB 2.0, and electrical noise is a real possibility in audio. Plus, instead of the standard four pins for the lower rates, you have 8 or 9 for USB 3.0. There is a chance that the cable is picking up spurious signals from those other pins, which would cause all sorts of noise.

Sorry I didn't notice this earlier.

Gary


Edited by Gary Curran (05/24/12 06:34 PM)
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Music touches everyone, and everyone can touch music, if they wish.

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#159514 - 05/24/12 05:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: John Conley]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
My concern is that they'll get it sorta working.Key word sorta.Fix one thing by srewing up another and 6 months down the road you're SOL.
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#159515 - 05/25/12 01:46 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Gary Curran]
sinbad Offline
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Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Germany
Apparently usb3 is not always downward compatible with things like soundcards. Focusrite had to upgrade their drivers for the 212i to clear this issue.
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#159516 - 05/25/12 02:52 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Gary Curran]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Gary,

Point taken. I knew which USB ports were which on the case, but not on the mobo itself. I was offered the opportunity to upgrade the main board during the the repair, so I will now be running a Gigabyte ZX77 series. I'll post the exact model number when I pick up the machine in the morning. But I will make a point to know exactly what I am plugging into.

John,

I went back to the shop yesterday to deliver a set of headphones for testing and documentation for the Presonus AudioBox. The system was running and appeared to be working fine. (I didn't pick it up at the time because I needed the packaging for the old mobo, and because I needed to get home and sleep, which would have been impossible with a new system sitting in the music room.) The fun will start when I install the audio apps.

Watch this space.
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#159517 - 05/25/12 03:28 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Ryszard]
sinbad Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Germany
Good luck!
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#159518 - 05/25/12 07:05 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Ryszard]
MountainSide Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
Really hope that this all comes to an end for you Ryszard. Nothing worse than getting a new toy and finding that it doesn't work. I hate the hassle of taking things back and dealing with all of that.
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#159519 - 05/27/12 02:19 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: MountainSide]
Gary Curran Offline
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Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 10059
Loc: Poulsbo, Wa 98370
So, Rys, did you get this home and get it running yet? Does it work?

Gary
_________________________
Music touches everyone, and everyone can touch music, if they wish.

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#159520 - 05/28/12 12:18 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Distorted sound/no sound/no MIDI throughput from new DAW [Re: Gary Curran]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
My time has been limited due to an unusual living situation. So far it sounds great, but I have not been able to try to record yet. For some reason the Presonus ASIO driver does not work with Reason, which is necessary in order to record audio with Reason. Haven't tried MIDI, either. I'll have more time with it later this week.
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#159521 - 06/02/12 03:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Success! [Re: Ryszard]
Ryszard Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
After more than a week away from home I had planned to devote the day to getting the DAW up and running. Instead, I'll just have to start making music. After only minutes of preparation--IT WORKS.

Sound and video now play perfectly. I plugged in my M-Audio Keystation 49e MIDI controller keyboard; Reason's Autodetect picked it up immediately. All I had to do was create an instrument and I was playing MIDI.

For some reason the ASIO driver supplied with the Presonus AudioBox USB doesn't work. Reason 6 requires an ASIO driver to record audio. So I installed ASIO4ALL, selected it and held my breath. It works and appears to be stable. The acid test was plugging in an actual instrument, creating an Audio Track, and clicking Record. (I'd say "drum roll," but it was actually a bass. Ha, ha.)

My hat is off to technician David Newton and one of the assistant store managers at the Marietta, Georgia, Micro Center. David had the thing on his bench for seven days. During that time he substituted every major component in the system, including the case. We still have no idea what was wrong. Also during that time he communicated with me at least once a day by phone or e-mail. It was the best interaction I've ever had with a serviceperson.

At the end of day six, though, I went to the manager and explained that I could have bought the same system online for the same money, had it burned in for three days and shipped with a three-year warranty. Even though I was over the 30-day mark for returns he agreed to take everything back and issue a refund if it wasn't working to my satisfaction. I've been doing business with Micro Center for years; this just bolsters my already high opinion of them. Oh, and the only cost to me was their standard bench charge and the difference between the original and the new Gigabyte motherboard that David installed. I have no idea how many actual hours went into it.

Thanks again to everyone here for their input. Next step is to reinstall BIAB, Real Band, and other music-related apps and get to work. I am confident that my next questions will be purely practical matters of actual program use and music production.
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