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#169544 - 08/11/12 11:32 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: bobcflatpicker]
KeithS Offline
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 901
Loc: Mobile, Alabama
Quote:



I don't think that number is even REMOTELY close to the truth and it flies in the face of everything I've ever read and the documentaries I've seen.




Unless you have confined your reading and viewing to literature and videos approved and blessed by the League of the South,it is hard to believe that EVERYTHING you have encountered says otherwise. The is a considerable body of work out there that says otherwise.
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#169545 - 08/11/12 01:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: KeithS]
Don Gaynor Offline
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 8006
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
We needn't go back 150 years to find rape and torture to be common among so-called "civilized" people but we need not go there. I have mentioned it on these forums several times before and it only serves to keep old wounds open. The scary fact is...it's still happening today!

Conquerors have always considered the enemy's women as fair game, the so-called "spoils of war," but history books avoid those facts as unsuitable reading for their "more civilized" audiences. Poppycock, given the slightest provocation, those same readers have turned into bloodthirsty animals. Since nearly 95% of rapes are never reported, according to psychologists, if you have exposed a hundred, that's but the tip of the iceberg.

Imagine a soldier, charged-up on adrenaline and testosterone, capturing Atlanta and, lacking any command restraints or conscience, and possibly just moments before seeing his best friend decapitated, he finds the women of the enemy. He feels compelled to humiliate his enemy even further by a wrathful act against his women.

It's a sad fact of life known as "war hysteria." Anyone wanting proof that mass rape of innocent, defenseless women, perpetrated by "civilized people" is going on full tilt and totally unabated, things censored from your nightly news, is welcome to PM me for details.

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#169546 - 08/11/12 01:47 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: Don Gaynor]
KeithS Offline
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 901
Loc: Mobile, Alabama
There has been rape in all war but it is Confederate Propoganda that Sherman encouraged it to happen in the ACW. There is sa ton of unfounded myth passed around now as fact ever since the kennedys wrote The South is right, which is the biggest single piece of propaganda trash ever written.
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#169547 - 08/11/12 02:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: Don Gaynor]
bobcflatpicker Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3358
Loc: WV, USA
Great points Don.
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Bob
................................
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#169548 - 08/11/12 02:33 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: KeithS]
bobcflatpicker Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3358
Loc: WV, USA
Keith,

Quote:

Unless you have confined your reading and viewing to literature and videos approved and blessed by the League of the South,it is hard to believe that EVERYTHING you have encountered says otherwise.




I have no reason to lie about that Keith, especially since I totally reject the Confederate assertion that secession was about States Rights. It was because the Confederate leaders were trying to further spread the abomination of slavery.

It’s not like I’ve been studying the Civil War, so I hadn’t encountered the view that rape was rare in the CW until today. I googled “rape in the American Civil War” and sure enough there are those who are trying to perpetuate that idea, (although, ... with all due respect, it's a ridiculous idea).

I also ran across an interesting article in the New York Times entitled “Rape and the Civil War” from 3 years ago. I doubt if the NYT is approved by the “League Of The South”, but here’s an excerpt:

Quote:

In fact, the University of North Carolina historian writes, “hundreds, perhaps thousands of women suffered rape” during the war, with many assaults likely unreported. But her focus is less rape itself than the threat of sexual predation by northern troops. Did reality match the fear of assault felt by Scarlett O’Hara in “Gone With the Wind”?

Feimster explores an 1862 order by the Union Gen. Benjamin Butler, decreeing that any New Orleans woman showing contempt for his occupying troops “shall be regarded and held liable to be treated as a woman of the town plying her avocation” — i.e., the city’s outspokenly Confederate belles were to be treated as prostitutes. Feimster sifts evidence that the order was a green light for Union soldiers to threaten sexual violence if not commit rape itself.

After President Abraham Lincoln ignored calls to rescind the order and it was applied beyond the city, she concludes, its geographical reach “ensured that the threat of sexual violence and the fear of rape were common to southern women and central to how they experienced the Civil War.”




I had forgotten about the "Beast Butler", (aka Union Gen. Benjamin Butler), until reading the article this morning, but recalled it from a documentary on the History Channel.

Obviously we could both post opposing excerpts, but for me it comes down to the fact that I find it inconceivable that rape wasn’t widespread, especially during the Union’s implementation of the “Total War” strategy.

So I guess we need to agree to disagree.

Take care.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#169549 - 08/11/12 08:18 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: bobcflatpicker]
Rob4580 Offline
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Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2358
Loc: Murgon Queensland Australia
Wow!!

All I can say is that Im overwhelmed at the results to the question posed.

I would like to thank you all for keeping cool heads in regards to differing opinions.
Thank you also for the great response and spirited points of view.

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#169550 - 08/11/12 08:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: Rob4580]
bobcflatpicker Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3358
Loc: WV, USA
Rob,

Look what you stirred up!

The CW was over about 150 years ago, but opinions about it are alive and well!

Just make sure you write a d*mn good song! Hehe.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#169551 - 08/11/12 08:27 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: Sundance]
Rob4580 Offline
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Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2358
Loc: Murgon Queensland Australia
Quote:

Rob if you're interested in the Civil War watch the documentary by Ken Burns. It's long but it's brilliant.





Hello Sundance.
I have seen that documentary twice now and that is what sparked my interest in the Civil War.
What I most enjoyed about the documentary was the stories from the simple regular soldier on the ground from both sides.

Stories from woman, slaves and the beautiful tunes that where written and rewritten for the times.

There has never been a civil war in my country and Im thankful for that.
Lets hope it all leeds to better times in the future although war never seems to become outdated.

If I continue with this project I hope I have your permission to draw on some of your ideas.


Edited by Rob4580 (08/11/12 08:30 PM)

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#169552 - 08/11/12 08:47 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: Rob4580]
Rob4580 Offline
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Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2358
Loc: Murgon Queensland Australia
Ive decided to try and write this song from the perspective of the regular soldier and maybe based around the battle of Bullrun as that seems to be the battle that kicked it all off.

If I cant do it justice I wont continue on with the project.

Thank you all for your wonderful stories and feelings.
Please continue with your post as you are helping to develop the feel of the song.

Regards Rob

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#169553 - 08/11/12 08:55 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: Rob4580]
bobcflatpicker Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3358
Loc: WV, USA
Rob,

Quote:

Hostilities began on April 12, 1861, when Confederate forces fired on a U.S. military installation at Fort Sumter in South Carolina. Lincoln responded by calling for a volunteer army from each state to recapture federal property, which led to declarations of secession by four more slave states. Both sides raised armies as the Union seized control of the border states early in the war and established a naval blockade. Land warfare in the East was inconclusive in 1861–62, as the Confederacy beat back Union efforts to capture its capital, Richmond, Virginia, notably during the Peninsular Campaign. In September 1862, the Confederate campaign in Maryland ended in defeat at the Battle of Antietam, which dissuaded the British from intervening.[3] Days after that battle, Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, which made ending slavery a war goal.[




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

That Wiki page is a great source of information.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#169554 - 08/11/12 09:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: bobcflatpicker]
KeithS Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 901
Loc: Mobile, Alabama
I've actually seen this referenced by the Leauge of the South. They love this stuff.

Quote:

In fact, the University of North Carolina historian writes, “hundreds, perhaps thousands of women suffered rape” during the war, with many assaults likely unreported. But her focus is less rape itself than the threat of sexual predation by northern troops. Did reality match the fear of assault felt by Scarlett O’Hara in “Gone With the Wind”?

Feimster explores an 1862 order by the Union Gen. Benjamin Butler, decreeing that any New Orleans woman showing contempt for his occupying troops “shall be regarded and held liable to be treated as a woman of the town plying her avocation” — i.e., the city’s outspokenly Confederate belles were to be treated as prostitutes. Feimster sifts evidence that the order was a green light for Union soldiers to threaten sexual violence if not commit rape itself.

After President Abraham Lincoln ignored calls to rescind the order and it was applied beyond the city, she concludes, its geographical reach “ensured that the threat of sexual violence and the fear of rape were common to southern women and central to how they experienced the Civil War.”




You chose not to include the sentence right before this which shoots down your claim that everything you ever read says otherwise, since we encounter a reference to those DO who say otherwise:


Quote:

But in the academic journal Daedalus, Crystal N. Feimster begs to differ with historians who “have accepted without question the idea that Union soldiers rarely raped southern women, black or white, and have argued that sexual violence was rare during the Civil War.




The reference to General Butler's order in New Orleans is often quoted and delibertely mistinterepted to make the union look bad. Butler had ordered his men to be respectful and treat the women of New Orleans as ladies. The women of New Orleans however did not return that respect. What riled Gen Butler was one day when a woman threw the contents of a chamber pot on him. His orders were that when women behaved like that, they were not to be treated as ladies but like the common whores on the street. That didn't mean they were supposed to rape them as the propogandists would have us believe, but that they were not to be shown the common manners and courtesy due to a lady. Unless you think that it was okay to rape prositutues. That certainly wasn't the case either.
_________________________
Keith
BIAB 2018 Audiophile
Home Built i7 i5280K 3.4 Ghz, 64 GB RAM, Melodyne Studio 4
Windows 7 64 Bit, SONAR Platinum, Sony Vegas 13, Acid 7, Sony Audio Master Suite, Waves Horizon Bundle, Izotope Ozone 7 Advanced

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#169555 - 08/11/12 09:52 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: KeithS]
bobcflatpicker Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3358
Loc: WV, USA
Jeez Keith! Did you miss the part where I suggested that we agree to disagree???

_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#169556 - 08/12/12 01:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: bobcflatpicker]
Don Gaynor Offline
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 8006
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Rob, I am anxious to hear your musical interpretation of the American CW. I suggest that you follow the links to Tom Rouch's music along with those of Stephen Foster to get a feel for the somber mood of the period. Foster's I Dream Of Jeannie tugged at the heartstrings of both sides.

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#169557 - 08/13/12 12:47 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: bobcflatpicker]
KeithS Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 901
Loc: Mobile, Alabama
Quote:

Jeez Keith! Did you miss the part where I suggested that we agree to disagree???






Nope. I was still disagreeing. I thought we agreed to do that.
_________________________
Keith
BIAB 2018 Audiophile
Home Built i7 i5280K 3.4 Ghz, 64 GB RAM, Melodyne Studio 4
Windows 7 64 Bit, SONAR Platinum, Sony Vegas 13, Acid 7, Sony Audio Master Suite, Waves Horizon Bundle, Izotope Ozone 7 Advanced

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#169558 - 08/13/12 01:27 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: KeithS]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6494
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

Quote:

Jeez Keith! Did you miss the part where I suggested that we agree to disagree???






Nope. I was still disagreeing. I thought we agreed to do that.




As Larry the cable guy would say, "now that's funny I don't care who you are".

Later,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
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#169559 - 08/13/12 02:40 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: KeithS]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3358
Loc: WV, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Jeez Keith! Did you miss the part where I suggested that we agree to disagree???






Nope. I was still disagreeing. I thought we agreed to do that.




Danny's right. That was funny.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#169560 - 08/13/12 04:07 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: bobcflatpicker]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Wow.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#169561 - 08/13/12 04:39 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Civil war lyrics [Re: John Conley]
Don Gaynor Offline
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 8006
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Warning: The CCC (Crazy Cantankerous Canuck) is awake already and spoiling for trouble.

It's hard not to love the guy. Maybe just ignore him and he'll crawl back into his hollow log until medication time.

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