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#172144 - 09/05/12 01:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3888
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Quote:

Why do you say it is limited. Exactly what is it missing?
Thanks,
John




BIAB is missing enough channels of audio to be meaningful. That's all. Real Band, which comes bundled with BIAB (and is designed to work with BIAB in unique ways), has 48.

Richard
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#172145 - 09/05/12 01:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5472
Loc: Chicago
Only one track allowed, and you have little to no editing capabilty of that track! BIAB is not a multitrack recording application. That's RealBand!
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#172146 - 09/05/12 01:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: Ryszard]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6404
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
To be clear John, Biab has 5 basic instrument tracks either midi or RT's: Guitar, Bass, Drums, Piano and Strings. Then 2 more, the Soloist and Melody. Then they added one audio recording track 4 or 5 years ago. That's enough for a lot of people but as soon as you want to do some actual multi track recording like you recording some parts along with one vocal or 3 or 4 vocal tracks you need a DAW like Real Band, Sonar, etc.

Most will start their song in Biab and D&D the project into their DAW.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#172147 - 09/05/12 01:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: MusicStudent]
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 329
Thanks guys,

LOL, I can see I have lots to learn which is well beyond the already intimidating control panels. Gee, I finally found the stop bottom, but it took a while - LOL. I figure it would be immediately beside the play but not so. I was looking for red but it was black so that didn't help. One step at a time.

John
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John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172148 - 09/05/12 02:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 329
I got the overdub record to work after setting the driver to realtek. So it is a keeper. I am getting together with my friend tonight so I am sure I will pick up some tips. I think he is happy to know someone else who actually has what appears to be his favorite program.
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172149 - 09/05/12 02:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: jazzmammal]
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 329
Quote:

To be clear John, Biab has 5 basic instrument tracks either midi or RT's: Guitar, Bass, Drums, Piano and Strings. Then 2 more, the Soloist and Melody. Then they added one audio recording track 4 or 5 years ago. That's enough for a lot of people but as soon as you want to do some actual multi track recording like you recording some parts along with one vocal or 3 or 4 vocal tracks you need a DAW like Real Band, Sonar, etc.

Most will start their song in Biab and D&D the project into their DAW.

Bob




Thanks Bob. So does this mean I could create a song with just Piano, Bass and drums then record my guitar for the guitar part (rather than from BIAB) then also later add in a melody/solo with my guitar again? That would be two recordings (2 overdubs in total). I am thinking after asking this that there would likely be a problem with looping changes for my guitar chords track.


Edited by bowlesj (09/05/12 02:10 PM)
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John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172150 - 09/05/12 02:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 329
Quote:

And in my case I'm pretty sure I would need the $500 package so its not a trivial amount to spend without being sure!





Yeah that is a fair chunk of money. I may not have taken the plunge at that amount. I am sure the $149 is good enough for what I am doing. I am not trying to make music to tell or anything.

I think your solution is planning the 1 month window for returning it. Yes MultiCharts had a trial but it was $610 (even more). I had a very detailed plan for testing it (a well planned out spread sheet list). It took me a full month 7 days a week 16 hours a day to test everything and I just go it all done in time. So that did it and I went ahead. The difference is I had to learn their programming language which I only partially knew from before (much more complex than learning BIAB but on the other hand I had been programming for 30 at that point so it was my territory).

I may plan my learning of BIAB. For example
1/ do all the tutorials
2/ scan all the buttons reading each left to right top to bottom
3/ scanning all menus (although this is not that easy when you go deep so you would need to map it - a lot of work).
4/ specifics I have listed before I got it and as I went along (a list of tests in other words)
5/ reading the manual 1 hour each morning and planning tests for at night (just what I did when I learned Unix shell programming)


Edited by bowlesj (09/05/12 02:20 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172151 - 09/05/12 02:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
CountryTrash Offline
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Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 373
Loc: Benoni, South Africa
So does this mean I could create a song with just Piano, Bass and drums then record my guitar for the guitar part (rather than from BIAB) then also later add in a melody/solo with my guitar again? That would be two recordings (2 overdubs in total).

Exactly!

In Realband you have 48 tracks to play with.
I normally create the basic song in BIAB and once happy then open it in Realband.

If there are midi and Realtracks then roughly the first 16 are used in the transfer.

THEN THE FUN STARTS

I would then typically record some more rythm quitar on say track 17, my own basic lead guitar or song specific riffs on track 18. I then add vocals to track 19 and sometimes sing another track on 20 to make it slightly fuller. (before me finding the PG stuff I used a small 4 channel Tascam recorder to do this ...4 track tapes and all)


Edited by CountryTrash (09/05/12 02:22 PM)
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#172152 - 09/05/12 02:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: CountryTrash]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 329
Thanks CountryTrash.

Quote:

(before me finding the PG stuff I used a small 4 channel Tascam recorder to do this ...4 track tapes and all)



Interesting, when I was in my 20s I had the two teac model 2s then bought their 16 track Tascam. The group stuff (with drums) at this link was recorded on that machine 32 years ago. It went from 4 track Teac to Mp3 for this (lots of fun with that machine)
http://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles


Edited by bowlesj (09/05/12 02:26 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172153 - 09/05/12 02:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6404
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Yes if you can record midi with your guitar but there's only one audio track. Got to keeps things basic, Biab is an auto accompaniment program, not a recording program. You now have Real Band, I've advised new people many times, learn RB at the same time you are learning Biab. That way you can intelligently figure out which way is best for you. For most of us the answer it both.

To get started with instant gratification, auditioning new song files, RT/RD's and styles use Biab but as soon as you want to do serious recording, tweaking, mastering, editing etc, use RB. There's plenty of times I'm not into all that and just want to test some stuff, get ideas, just play around or whatever and Biab is perfect for that. Other's don't get into the recording aspect of this and Biab by itself is enough for them and they've never opened RB. It all depends on you. Both programs will cover anything you want to do until (if?) you become enough of a pro at this you can appreciate some of the highly technical differences between RB, Reaper, Sonar, Cubase etc. At that point you'll be telling us some of your tricks, which is a good thing btw.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#172154 - 09/05/12 06:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2069
Quote:

I think the the free trial has a much bigger beneficial offset.




Oh, I agree with you 101%! I'd much prefer to try before I buy.

Hey, I'd be interested in your first impressions of the user interface. I have heard it is a bit, well, non-conventional! And from viewing the videos here it seems pretty much unlike every modern Windows program I've used. I guess you just get used to it if it is delivering the music though!!!

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#172155 - 09/05/12 08:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 329
Hi JohnJohnJohn,

I think you are into this so much that you should just go for it. Forget the money. BIAB has value. There is no doubt. My friend uses BIAB, RB and also Abelton Live. He does not worry about the cost because feels he anything could happen and he could be dead tomorrow. He has the money and he just does not want to miss out on what is available. He criteria is "will I use it" not "will I use it perfectly or will it be perfect for me". There is a big difference. if you figure you will use 10% of BIAB the reality is once you know it you are likely to use 20% of it or more. You do not need to use 100% of it. The key is that he uses BIAB and RB then imports into Abelton Live and uses some of it too. Okay so maybe he has spent $1,000 on all of it. So make up the test plan and if it does 20% of that plan then buy it and find the programs that doe the other 10%. Sure take your time but make it a 20% usage rather than 100%. Importing into other programs that do the rest seems to be the key to this. As far as the 30 day trial goes, I now believe they they will return it if you do not like it. Once you believe this there is no difference except your money is tied up a little longer if you return it (so what). Calculate the interest on that. It is probably $5.00 difference at todays crazy low interest rates. Your education even if you do return it far exceeds that. Here is the bottom line. Your dwelling on it tells you very clearly that BIAB has a lot of value and the only thing holding you back is fear. Trust me, I know from trading "FEAR IS THE ENEMY" IGNORE FEAR AND GO FOR IT. Easier said that done but you really have nothing to loose the way I see it. I went for it and it worked out. My belief is your subconscious which keeps bringing you back to BIAB/RT is what is correct and your fear is what is wrong. Maybe I found it easy to see this because of my work "trading". It may not be as easy for you. I do not know. Whatever. It is all good. But I really do believe that 99% of the time the only thing we need to fear is fear itself. PG-Music could take years before they realize that having a free trial is good. That is their problem. I realized that then made the decision with that realization. If you have problems after buying it appears that there are a lot of great people here to help, It makes it easier.

Give this view point some thought. It may make the decision easier. If you have a test BIAB plan and it fails that is okay to. Just return it.
John


Edited by bowlesj (09/06/12 12:08 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172156 - 09/05/12 09:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5472
Loc: Chicago
Good God John, what happened, wasn't it just a day ago you were reluctant to even consider purchase?? It sounds like you have drunk the koolaid. Of course, nothin wrong with that, just seems like an instant conversion. Welcome to the club.

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#172157 - 09/05/12 10:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: MusicStudent]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10154
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Hi, John Bowles -

Welcome to the fold. I hope you continue to learn and use BIAB. It's a great program.

I just checked out your songs and really enjoyed what I heard.

Before long, you'll be offering advice and help yourself.

Welcome aboard.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
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#172158 - 09/05/12 11:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2069
Quote:

Hi JohnJohnJohn,

I think you are into this so much that you should just go for it. Forget the money. BIAB has value. There is no doubt. My friend uses BIAB, RB and also Abelton Live. He is 60 now. he does not worry about the cost because he is at the age where he could be dead tomorrow. He has the money and he just does not want to miss out on what is available. He criteria is "will I use it" not "will I use it perfectly or will it be perfect for me". There is a big difference. if you figure you will use 10% of BIAB the reality is once you know it you are likely to use 20% of it or more. You do not need to use 100% of it. The key is that he uses BIAB and RB then imports into Abelton Live and uses some of it too. Okay so maybe he has spent $1,000 on all of it. So make up the test plan and if it does 20% of that plan then buy it and find the programs that doe the other 10%. Sure take your time but make it a 20% usage rather than 100%. Importing into other programs that do the rest seems to be the key to this. As far as the 30 day trial goes, I now believe they they will return it if you do not like it. Once you believe this there is no difference except your money is tied up a little longer if you return it (so what). Calculate the interest on that. It is probably $5.00 difference at todays crazy low interest rates. Your education even if you do return it far exceeds that. Here is the bottom line. Your dwelling on it tells you very clearly that BIAB has a lot of value and the only thing holding you back is fear. Trust me, I know from trading "FEAR IS THE ENEMY" IGNORE FEAR AND GO FOR IT. Easier said that done but you really have nothing to loose the way I see it. I went for it and it worked out. My belief is your subconscious which keeps bringing you back to BIAB/RT is what is correct and your fear is what is wrong. Maybe I found it easy to see this because of my work "trading". It may not be as easy for you. I do not know. Whatever. It is all good. But I really do believe that 99% of the time the only thing we need to fear is fear itself. PG-Music could take years before they realize that having a free trial is good. That is their problem. I realized that then made the decision with that realization. If you have problems after buying it appears that there are a lot of great people here to help, It makes it easier.

Give this view point some thought. It may make the decision easier. If you have a test BIAB plan and it fails that is okay to. Just return it.

John




thanks John. you make some good points. for me the $500 vs $150 is also a bit of the criteria! :-)

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PG Music News
RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
Updated: Help file.

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is Here!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is here! PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 includes many new features and enhancements:

Windows Audio (WASAPI) driver support. This allows for low latency audio recording/playback without requiring ASIO. Note that this supports 1 stereo input plus 1 stereo output at a time. For multiple inputs/outputs, you should continue to use either MME or ASIO.

ABC Notation format support. You can save a track of notation in a popular ASCII text format to import into other programs, or you can paste this format into a user forum as a way of sending the track (usually the melody and chord symbols) to other users without having to attach a file.

The built-in Audio Chord Wizard detection in the Chords window automatically detects the chords of the song, based on the audio data from all non-muted audio tracks. This works similar to the standalone Audio Chord Wizard, except that it uses the current bar lines of the existing song.

Notation Enhancements:
-X/8 time signature support. This is a special method of displaying 6/8, 9/8, or 12/8 time signatures in the Notation window.
-The Duplicate previous chord in notation right-click menu lets you quickly duplicate the previous chord (group of notes on same peg) without having to reenter it.
-Delete highlighted notes in notation right-click menu lets you delete all highlighted notes.
-Delete all notes on this peg in notation right-click menu lets you delete all notes on the nearest peg that was clicked on.
-You can now enter Section Numbers. Previously, you could enter letters (A-Z) only, but now you can also enter numbers (1-9).

...a full list of the new features in PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is available at http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.features.htm

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

#TBT - The Beginning of Xtra Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box®

We released the much-loved Xtra Styles PAKs in August 2016! This release included 164 RealStyles for Jazz, Country, Rock-Pop, and Singer/Songwriter and worked with any Band-in-a-Box® 2016 or higher UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK, or Audiophile Edition!

Xtra Styles PAKs were such a hit... we couldn't stop making them! Since their introduction, we've released 3 more PAKs with a total of over 600 Xtra Styles in all!

Want to hear what other program users are doing with their Xtra Styles? Visit our Xtra STyles Contests forum to hear all the songs submitted during previous song contest we've had: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=102&page=1

Learn more about Xtra Styles PAKs and listen to their demos at http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win.

Band-in-a-Box® Customer Feedback - Feel The Love!

Check out some great feedback we've received on our Facebook account from program users:

"I have been using Band-in-a-Box for years. It is the anchor of my music gigs as well as my fun in my studio. I have used other software but Band-in-a-Box is my main go to."
-Jack T.

"Love Band-in-a-Box. As someone who played professionally for 20 years and retired from live performing years ago, I still love music. Band-in-a-Box allows me to create fun arrangements which I can sing over or play over. There are THOUSANDS of different variations plus you can enter any chords you like and create any chart. It's also great for creating background tracks for videos and audio content for websites, training etc. And like everything else in the world . . . it may not be right for everyone. For those who love music and don't have the time to shed five or six instruments it's way cool."
-Vinnie R.

"This program has completely changed my playing for the good. I can experiment with playing chords and leads over various scenarios that I can quickly create and change. Love this program. I use it nearly every day."
-Dave R.

"I bought my first version in 1994 and have progressed to 2018 version. I use it to create backing tracks for live music performance. I currently have over 2,000 songs performance ready. If you can and type, and use mouse it will work for you."
-Roger M.

"The premiere reason for me for buying this program; it has given me the freedom to fully complete the foundation for my songs without the confinement of limited minded musicians. After the song concept is complete, it can then be presented those musicians to play as a cover song. Also writing a song with a band gives them partial ownership of your idea... not cool... especially since they may have fought your idea every step of the way.. Every member of an organized band should own a copy of this program to compose or to even give legitimate composition alternatives to the original songwriter."
-Paul V.

Thanks everyone!

Support for ABC Notation Format in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

ABC notation is the simple text-based notation system used by musicians worldwide to store chords, melody, and lyrics of songs. Now with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows you can open and save songs in ABC notation format!

To save the song in ABC notation format, press the [Save As] toolbar button and choose Save as ABC notation file from the menu. Once opened, select a track that you want to save and choose your other criteria - The [Copy to clipboard] button will copy the file to the clipboard (that you can then paste it into other programs). The [Save as File] button will let you type a name and select the destination in your hard drive.

Band-in-a-Box® Song Title Browser Requests Forum

Have you stumped the Song Title Browser feature in the Band-in-a-Box® StylePicker?

If you tried to search for a popular song and this feature didn't offer you any listings, we'd love it if you'd let us know in our Wishlist forum here.

Posting your requests to this forum really does work - we used it to increase the database with the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 release!

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