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#172144 - 09/05/12 01:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3899
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Quote:

Why do you say it is limited. Exactly what is it missing?
Thanks,
John




BIAB is missing enough channels of audio to be meaningful. That's all. Real Band, which comes bundled with BIAB (and is designed to work with BIAB in unique ways), has 48.

Richard
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#172145 - 09/05/12 01:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5482
Loc: Chicago
Only one track allowed, and you have little to no editing capabilty of that track! BIAB is not a multitrack recording application. That's RealBand!
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#172146 - 09/05/12 01:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: Ryszard]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6477
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
To be clear John, Biab has 5 basic instrument tracks either midi or RT's: Guitar, Bass, Drums, Piano and Strings. Then 2 more, the Soloist and Melody. Then they added one audio recording track 4 or 5 years ago. That's enough for a lot of people but as soon as you want to do some actual multi track recording like you recording some parts along with one vocal or 3 or 4 vocal tracks you need a DAW like Real Band, Sonar, etc.

Most will start their song in Biab and D&D the project into their DAW.

Bob
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Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#172147 - 09/05/12 01:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: MusicStudent]
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 359
Thanks guys,

LOL, I can see I have lots to learn which is well beyond the already intimidating control panels. Gee, I finally found the stop bottom, but it took a while - LOL. I figure it would be immediately beside the play but not so. I was looking for red but it was black so that didn't help. One step at a time.

John
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John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172148 - 09/05/12 02:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 359
I got the overdub record to work after setting the driver to realtek. So it is a keeper. I am getting together with my friend tonight so I am sure I will pick up some tips. I think he is happy to know someone else who actually has what appears to be his favorite program.
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172149 - 09/05/12 02:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: jazzmammal]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 359
Quote:

To be clear John, Biab has 5 basic instrument tracks either midi or RT's: Guitar, Bass, Drums, Piano and Strings. Then 2 more, the Soloist and Melody. Then they added one audio recording track 4 or 5 years ago. That's enough for a lot of people but as soon as you want to do some actual multi track recording like you recording some parts along with one vocal or 3 or 4 vocal tracks you need a DAW like Real Band, Sonar, etc.

Most will start their song in Biab and D&D the project into their DAW.

Bob




Thanks Bob. So does this mean I could create a song with just Piano, Bass and drums then record my guitar for the guitar part (rather than from BIAB) then also later add in a melody/solo with my guitar again? That would be two recordings (2 overdubs in total). I am thinking after asking this that there would likely be a problem with looping changes for my guitar chords track.


Edited by bowlesj (09/05/12 02:10 PM)
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My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172150 - 09/05/12 02:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 359
Quote:

And in my case I'm pretty sure I would need the $500 package so its not a trivial amount to spend without being sure!





Yeah that is a fair chunk of money. I may not have taken the plunge at that amount. I am sure the $149 is good enough for what I am doing. I am not trying to make music to tell or anything.

I think your solution is planning the 1 month window for returning it. Yes MultiCharts had a trial but it was $610 (even more). I had a very detailed plan for testing it (a well planned out spread sheet list). It took me a full month 7 days a week 16 hours a day to test everything and I just go it all done in time. So that did it and I went ahead. The difference is I had to learn their programming language which I only partially knew from before (much more complex than learning BIAB but on the other hand I had been programming for 30 at that point so it was my territory).

I may plan my learning of BIAB. For example
1/ do all the tutorials
2/ scan all the buttons reading each left to right top to bottom
3/ scanning all menus (although this is not that easy when you go deep so you would need to map it - a lot of work).
4/ specifics I have listed before I got it and as I went along (a list of tests in other words)
5/ reading the manual 1 hour each morning and planning tests for at night (just what I did when I learned Unix shell programming)


Edited by bowlesj (09/05/12 02:20 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172151 - 09/05/12 02:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
CountryTrash Offline
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Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 375
Loc: Benoni, South Africa
So does this mean I could create a song with just Piano, Bass and drums then record my guitar for the guitar part (rather than from BIAB) then also later add in a melody/solo with my guitar again? That would be two recordings (2 overdubs in total).

Exactly!

In Realband you have 48 tracks to play with.
I normally create the basic song in BIAB and once happy then open it in Realband.

If there are midi and Realtracks then roughly the first 16 are used in the transfer.

THEN THE FUN STARTS

I would then typically record some more rythm quitar on say track 17, my own basic lead guitar or song specific riffs on track 18. I then add vocals to track 19 and sometimes sing another track on 20 to make it slightly fuller. (before me finding the PG stuff I used a small 4 channel Tascam recorder to do this ...4 track tapes and all)


Edited by CountryTrash (09/05/12 02:22 PM)
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#172152 - 09/05/12 02:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: CountryTrash]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 359
Thanks CountryTrash.

Quote:

(before me finding the PG stuff I used a small 4 channel Tascam recorder to do this ...4 track tapes and all)



Interesting, when I was in my 20s I had the two teac model 2s then bought their 16 track Tascam. The group stuff (with drums) at this link was recorded on that machine 32 years ago. It went from 4 track Teac to Mp3 for this (lots of fun with that machine)
http://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles


Edited by bowlesj (09/05/12 02:26 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172153 - 09/05/12 02:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6477
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Yes if you can record midi with your guitar but there's only one audio track. Got to keeps things basic, Biab is an auto accompaniment program, not a recording program. You now have Real Band, I've advised new people many times, learn RB at the same time you are learning Biab. That way you can intelligently figure out which way is best for you. For most of us the answer it both.

To get started with instant gratification, auditioning new song files, RT/RD's and styles use Biab but as soon as you want to do serious recording, tweaking, mastering, editing etc, use RB. There's plenty of times I'm not into all that and just want to test some stuff, get ideas, just play around or whatever and Biab is perfect for that. Other's don't get into the recording aspect of this and Biab by itself is enough for them and they've never opened RB. It all depends on you. Both programs will cover anything you want to do until (if?) you become enough of a pro at this you can appreciate some of the highly technical differences between RB, Reaper, Sonar, Cubase etc. At that point you'll be telling us some of your tricks, which is a good thing btw.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#172154 - 09/05/12 06:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2141
Quote:

I think the the free trial has a much bigger beneficial offset.




Oh, I agree with you 101%! I'd much prefer to try before I buy.

Hey, I'd be interested in your first impressions of the user interface. I have heard it is a bit, well, non-conventional! And from viewing the videos here it seems pretty much unlike every modern Windows program I've used. I guess you just get used to it if it is delivering the music though!!!

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#172155 - 09/05/12 08:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 359
Hi JohnJohnJohn,

I think you are into this so much that you should just go for it. Forget the money. BIAB has value. There is no doubt. My friend uses BIAB, RB and also Abelton Live. He does not worry about the cost because feels he anything could happen and he could be dead tomorrow. He has the money and he just does not want to miss out on what is available. He criteria is "will I use it" not "will I use it perfectly or will it be perfect for me". There is a big difference. if you figure you will use 10% of BIAB the reality is once you know it you are likely to use 20% of it or more. You do not need to use 100% of it. The key is that he uses BIAB and RB then imports into Abelton Live and uses some of it too. Okay so maybe he has spent $1,000 on all of it. So make up the test plan and if it does 20% of that plan then buy it and find the programs that doe the other 10%. Sure take your time but make it a 20% usage rather than 100%. Importing into other programs that do the rest seems to be the key to this. As far as the 30 day trial goes, I now believe they they will return it if you do not like it. Once you believe this there is no difference except your money is tied up a little longer if you return it (so what). Calculate the interest on that. It is probably $5.00 difference at todays crazy low interest rates. Your education even if you do return it far exceeds that. Here is the bottom line. Your dwelling on it tells you very clearly that BIAB has a lot of value and the only thing holding you back is fear. Trust me, I know from trading "FEAR IS THE ENEMY" IGNORE FEAR AND GO FOR IT. Easier said that done but you really have nothing to loose the way I see it. I went for it and it worked out. My belief is your subconscious which keeps bringing you back to BIAB/RT is what is correct and your fear is what is wrong. Maybe I found it easy to see this because of my work "trading". It may not be as easy for you. I do not know. Whatever. It is all good. But I really do believe that 99% of the time the only thing we need to fear is fear itself. PG-Music could take years before they realize that having a free trial is good. That is their problem. I realized that then made the decision with that realization. If you have problems after buying it appears that there are a lot of great people here to help, It makes it easier.

Give this view point some thought. It may make the decision easier. If you have a test BIAB plan and it fails that is okay to. Just return it.
John


Edited by bowlesj (09/06/12 12:08 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#172156 - 09/05/12 09:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5482
Loc: Chicago
Good God John, what happened, wasn't it just a day ago you were reluctant to even consider purchase?? It sounds like you have drunk the koolaid. Of course, nothin wrong with that, just seems like an instant conversion. Welcome to the club.

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#172157 - 09/05/12 10:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: MusicStudent]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10361
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Hi, John Bowles -

Welcome to the fold. I hope you continue to learn and use BIAB. It's a great program.

I just checked out your songs and really enjoyed what I heard.

Before long, you'll be offering advice and help yourself.

Welcome aboard.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
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#172158 - 09/05/12 11:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: My friend loves BIAB but I am reluctant to buy it [Re: bowlesj]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2141
Quote:

Hi JohnJohnJohn,

I think you are into this so much that you should just go for it. Forget the money. BIAB has value. There is no doubt. My friend uses BIAB, RB and also Abelton Live. He is 60 now. he does not worry about the cost because he is at the age where he could be dead tomorrow. He has the money and he just does not want to miss out on what is available. He criteria is "will I use it" not "will I use it perfectly or will it be perfect for me". There is a big difference. if you figure you will use 10% of BIAB the reality is once you know it you are likely to use 20% of it or more. You do not need to use 100% of it. The key is that he uses BIAB and RB then imports into Abelton Live and uses some of it too. Okay so maybe he has spent $1,000 on all of it. So make up the test plan and if it does 20% of that plan then buy it and find the programs that doe the other 10%. Sure take your time but make it a 20% usage rather than 100%. Importing into other programs that do the rest seems to be the key to this. As far as the 30 day trial goes, I now believe they they will return it if you do not like it. Once you believe this there is no difference except your money is tied up a little longer if you return it (so what). Calculate the interest on that. It is probably $5.00 difference at todays crazy low interest rates. Your education even if you do return it far exceeds that. Here is the bottom line. Your dwelling on it tells you very clearly that BIAB has a lot of value and the only thing holding you back is fear. Trust me, I know from trading "FEAR IS THE ENEMY" IGNORE FEAR AND GO FOR IT. Easier said that done but you really have nothing to loose the way I see it. I went for it and it worked out. My belief is your subconscious which keeps bringing you back to BIAB/RT is what is correct and your fear is what is wrong. Maybe I found it easy to see this because of my work "trading". It may not be as easy for you. I do not know. Whatever. It is all good. But I really do believe that 99% of the time the only thing we need to fear is fear itself. PG-Music could take years before they realize that having a free trial is good. That is their problem. I realized that then made the decision with that realization. If you have problems after buying it appears that there are a lot of great people here to help, It makes it easier.

Give this view point some thought. It may make the decision easier. If you have a test BIAB plan and it fails that is okay to. Just return it.

John




thanks John. you make some good points. for me the $500 vs $150 is also a bit of the criteria! :-)

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